OEM Brakes for Track use?
#26
Fresh review from a couple days ago:
Just completed my first track day on the Wilwoods (Atlanta Motorsports Park), and I'm happy to say that they performed flawlessly. When I had the stock brakes on the car, I never managed to make it through a track day without trashing a set of rotors (warpage / thickness variation), and I always had inconsistent brake feel throughout a session. The Sakebomb rotors didn't warp and the brakes felt exactly the same every time I hit the brake pedal.
Supporting info: Sakebomb rotors (not the floating APs), Hawk DTC-60 pads (I may downgrade to a different pad, these tend to rattle at slow speeds both with the Wilwoods and stock calipers), 35mm pistons in the Wilwoods, stock rear brakes, ~320hp.
Supporting info: Sakebomb rotors (not the floating APs), Hawk DTC-60 pads (I may downgrade to a different pad, these tend to rattle at slow speeds both with the Wilwoods and stock calipers), 35mm pistons in the Wilwoods, stock rear brakes, ~320hp.
Just completed my first track day on the Wilwoods (Atlanta Motorsports Park), and I'm happy to say that they performed flawlessly. When I had the stock brakes on the car, I never managed to make it through a track day without trashing a set of rotors (warpage / thickness variation), and I always had inconsistent brake feel throughout a session. The Sakebomb rotors didn't warp and the brakes felt exactly the same every time I hit the brake pedal.
Supporting info: Sakebomb rotors (not the floating APs), Hawk DTC-60 pads (I may downgrade to a different pad, these tend to rattle at slow speeds both with the Wilwoods and stock calipers), 35mm pistons in the Wilwoods, stock rear brakes, ~320hp.
Supporting info: Sakebomb rotors (not the floating APs), Hawk DTC-60 pads (I may downgrade to a different pad, these tend to rattle at slow speeds both with the Wilwoods and stock calipers), 35mm pistons in the Wilwoods, stock rear brakes, ~320hp.
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
#27
Full Member
Thread Starter
So most of you use the Hawk DTC 70 / 60, right? Any other suggestions? Endless is no option money wise..
Where do you guys buy the DTC's? In Germany they are helplessly overpriced, but also in the states I didn't find much shops that sell them for a reasonable price, or am I to stupid to find them?
There is another problem, but I think I have to live with that: I drive the car on the road to go to the track. It would be perfect, if the pads would be a little bit stopping when the brakes are cold. I assume this is not possible? The EBC YS are not too bad in that respect.
Where do you guys buy the DTC's? In Germany they are helplessly overpriced, but also in the states I didn't find much shops that sell them for a reasonable price, or am I to stupid to find them?
There is another problem, but I think I have to live with that: I drive the car on the road to go to the track. It would be perfect, if the pads would be a little bit stopping when the brakes are cold. I assume this is not possible? The EBC YS are not too bad in that respect.
#28
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (30)
You can also check out the DTC-30 pads. They have higher initial cold bite vs the 60s.
Compound Graph | Hawk Performance
I've purchased DTC's from the following depending on who had them in stock and for what price.
tirerack.com
amazon.com
summitracing.com
Compound Graph | Hawk Performance
I've purchased DTC's from the following depending on who had them in stock and for what price.
tirerack.com
amazon.com
summitracing.com
#29
It Just Feels Right
iTrader: (11)
I have DTC 60 fronts and 30 rears. Bite is strong with no fade, but it does seem to be a little front biased. I keep them on throughout the summer and have had no problem with them on the street. Supposedly they wear rotors, but it's not a DD so it's not seeing much street time.
I have since installed brake ducts and am now concerned with the heat range being too cold with the 70s so may go with 30s all around
Since you already have EBC yellows, give them a try (especially if it's hard to source Hawks). They also have a race only pad which may be comparable to the DTC series. Below is a link on Hawk heat ranges. Couldn't find one on EBC
http://andrew-racing.com/file/630-Ha...ison+chart.pdf
I have since installed brake ducts and am now concerned with the heat range being too cold with the 70s so may go with 30s all around
Since you already have EBC yellows, give them a try (especially if it's hard to source Hawks). They also have a race only pad which may be comparable to the DTC series. Below is a link on Hawk heat ranges. Couldn't find one on EBC
http://andrew-racing.com/file/630-Ha...ison+chart.pdf
#30
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (30)
I have DTC 60 fronts and 30 rears. Bite is strong with no fade, but it does seem to be a little front biased. I keep them on throughout the summer and have had no problem with them on the street. Supposedly they wear rotors, but it's not a DD so it's not seeing much street time.
I have since installed brake ducts and am now concerned with the heat range being too cold with the 70s so may go with 30s all around
Since you already have EBC yellows, give them a try (especially if it's hard to source Hawks). They also have a race only pad which may be comparable to the DTC series. Below is a link on Hawk heat ranges. Couldn't find one on EBC
http://andrew-racing.com/file/630-Ha...ison+chart.pdf
I have since installed brake ducts and am now concerned with the heat range being too cold with the 70s so may go with 30s all around
Since you already have EBC yellows, give them a try (especially if it's hard to source Hawks). They also have a race only pad which may be comparable to the DTC series. Below is a link on Hawk heat ranges. Couldn't find one on EBC
http://andrew-racing.com/file/630-Ha...ison+chart.pdf
#31
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Honestly guys, for the price of the SBG wilwood street BBK it's hard to go wrong.
I remember upgrading many years ago to the Racing Brake kit and it was a revelation when driving the Tail of the Dragon...... it's much more fun going fast when you know you can slow down even more quickly
I remember upgrading many years ago to the Racing Brake kit and it was a revelation when driving the Tail of the Dragon...... it's much more fun going fast when you know you can slow down even more quickly
#32
Honestly guys, for the price of the SBG wilwood street BBK it's hard to go wrong.
I remember upgrading many years ago to the Racing Brake kit and it was a revelation when driving the Tail of the Dragon...... it's much more fun going fast when you know you can slow down even more quickly
I remember upgrading many years ago to the Racing Brake kit and it was a revelation when driving the Tail of the Dragon...... it's much more fun going fast when you know you can slow down even more quickly
We designed this BBK to be a track capable, budget conscious brake system, for customers in exactly this type of situation. Not only will your overall performance receive an upgrade an order of magnitude in proportions, but over time upkeep costs are extremely low.
We use 20mm thick brake pads in our kit, providing an enormous heat barrier for your calipers, and extreme pad lifespan. With proper pad choice, your rotors and pads will wear much slower than an over-driven stock system, and will cost much less in new pads and rotors to maintain overtime.
Check out the Product Page for more details.
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
#33
Full Member
Thread Starter
I appreciate that you sell a reasonable priced BBK for the FD. But as I'm located in Germany and wan't to keep the car street legal, I need a certificate for the German "TUEV". Assuming this BBK hasn't one, its not an option for me.
#35
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Long time forum vendors and a small business run by enthusiasts who pay for the privilege to advertise their product, who also offer a great cost-effective solution for the subject at hand.... if that bothers you, don't know what to tell ya JC
#36
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (14)
The biggest issue with the stock brakes for track use is rotor thickness. They can't dissipate heat fast enough leading to brake fade. This can be helped with good brake ducts as mentioned but eventually you will find the limits and need to upgrade.
The Sake Bomb kit is a great offering. I have Pettit Racing's Outlaw kit which is almost identical to the sake bomb kit. The Pettit kit has worked great for me.
The Sake Bomb kit is a great offering. I have Pettit Racing's Outlaw kit which is almost identical to the sake bomb kit. The Pettit kit has worked great for me.
#37
needs more track time...
iTrader: (13)
The Sake Bomb kit is a great offering. I have Pettit Racing's Outlaw kit which is almost identical to the sake bomb kit. The Pettit kit has worked great for me.
The SBG is a great kit, price and build quality wise, and I fully expect it to perform extremely well on the track. Review the 35mm piston option (and consider that they are dedicated enough to offer a 35 mm piston option!) to avoid the large front-bias overweight typical of a BBK.
Besides that, it has been my experience that SBG is a creative, talented, forthright group trying to support our 23 year old cars. There aren't going to be many more of those companies, and it would be good if they stuck around.
#38
The biggest issue with the stock brakes for track use is rotor thickness. They can't dissipate heat fast enough leading to brake fade. This can be helped with good brake ducts as mentioned but eventually you will find the limits and need to upgrade.
The Sake Bomb kit is a great offering. I have Pettit Racing's Outlaw kit which is almost identical to the sake bomb kit. The Pettit kit has worked great for me.
The Sake Bomb kit is a great offering. I have Pettit Racing's Outlaw kit which is almost identical to the sake bomb kit. The Pettit kit has worked great for me.
Get '99 Spec Mazda brakes, some Stoptech kit, ours... whatever the solution is it does not involve stock rotors. In 1999 Mazda changed the OEM brakes from 22mm thick to 32mm thick... Even Mazda knows the answer to this question but everyone wants to keep beating this same dead horse
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
#39
I'd rather see someone have a legitimate solution on their car than sell them stock pads and stock rotors over and over and over.... and here's a little industry secret, you stand to generate more revenue selling lots of cheap consumables than a high ticket item. Selling consumables is a scam, if you're creating that much wear something in your equation is wrong
Being a vendor it's hard to convince people of the truth because everyone assumes our only goal is to sell someone on something they don't need, but I'm straight with people, stock rotors are too small for track use, and I'd even argue they are too small for higher than stock power levels. Now if you don't drive your car hard, stock brakes are just peachy, but that's not why we're all here
Being a vendor it's hard to convince people of the truth because everyone assumes our only goal is to sell someone on something they don't need, but I'm straight with people, stock rotors are too small for track use, and I'd even argue they are too small for higher than stock power levels. Now if you don't drive your car hard, stock brakes are just peachy, but that's not why we're all here
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
#40
just dont care.
iTrader: (6)
I'd rather see someone have a legitimate solution on their car than sell them stock pads and stock rotors over and over and over.... and here's a little industry secret, you stand to generate more revenue selling lots of cheap consumables than a high ticket item. Selling consumables is a scam, if you're creating that much wear something in your equation is wrong
Being a vendor it's hard to convince people of the truth because everyone assumes our only goal is to sell someone on something they don't need, but I'm straight with people, stock rotors are too small for track use, and I'd even argue they are too small for higher than stock power levels. Now if you don't drive your car hard, stock brakes are just peachy, but that's not why we're all here
Being a vendor it's hard to convince people of the truth because everyone assumes our only goal is to sell someone on something they don't need, but I'm straight with people, stock rotors are too small for track use, and I'd even argue they are too small for higher than stock power levels. Now if you don't drive your car hard, stock brakes are just peachy, but that's not why we're all here
Last edited by jacobcartmill; 10-30-16 at 07:29 PM.
#41
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 119
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I just got back from 2 track weekends with the SBG Wilwood kit and Carbotech xp10s. I can vouch that they held up great at TWS which has a 140mph straight. Stock brakes were melting EBC reds at a much slower track.
#43
For adhesive friction pads, they're ok if you don't overheat them... but if you must use stock brakes on track and want a really good adhesive friction based pad I highly recommend ME20 or ME22 Endless. The issue there is now the cost, which is INSANE (and we're a top-tier dealer, saying that). You're halfway to a BBK just in Endless pads alone, which was the opposite goal of trying to scrape by with stock brakes... trying to stay cheap.
Basically what we're talking about is how to balance a compromised braking system, and I know I'm biased but we've also done lots of testing, and have lots of experience over the years... the stock brakes can not absorb much heat, and are really poor at shedding that heat once they've been loaded up, so the only thing you can do is run the pads on insanely hot and potentially glowing rotors. Remember you're cooking wheel bearings now, boiling fluid, ruining piston seals, cooking dust boots, loading tons of heat into your wheel... it's a significant amount of wear and tear on the surrounding components.
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
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