Fresh review from a couple days ago:

 

So most of you use the Hawk DTC 70 / 60, right? Any other suggestions? Endless is no option money wise..

Where do you guys buy the DTC's? In Germany they are helplessly overpriced, but also in the states I didn't find much shops that sell them for a reasonable price, or am I to stupid to find them?

There is another problem, but I think I have to live with that: I drive the car on the road to go to the track. It would be perfect, if the pads would be a little bit stopping when the brakes are cold. I assume this is not possible? The EBC YS are not too bad in that respect.

 

You can also check out the DTC-30 pads. They have higher initial cold bite vs the 60s.

Compound Graph | Hawk Performance

I've purchased DTC's from the following depending on who had them in stock and for what price.

tirerack.com
amazon.com
summitracing.com

 

I have DTC 60 fronts and 30 rears. Bite is strong with no fade, but it does seem to be a little front biased. I keep them on throughout the summer and have had no problem with them on the street. Supposedly they wear rotors, but it's not a DD so it's not seeing much street time.

I have since installed brake ducts and am now concerned with the heat range being too cold with the 70s so may go with 30s all around

Since you already have EBC yellows, give them a try (especially if it's hard to source Hawks). They also have a race only pad which may be comparable to the DTC series. Below is a link on Hawk heat ranges. Couldn't find one on EBC

http://andrew-racing.com/file/630-Ha...ison+chart.pdf

 

If the 60/30 combo feels front biased, go with 60/60. 60/60 has worked very well for me on track with r comps.

 

Honestly guys, for the price of the SBG wilwood street BBK it's hard to go wrong.

I remember upgrading many years ago to the Racing Brake kit and it was a revelation when driving the Tail of the Dragon...... it's much more fun going fast when you know you can slow down even more quickly

 

We currently have a sale going on Wilwood Track Day kits, they're marked down $150, and we're offering free shipping for the rest of the month with coupon code: BRAKETOBERFEST2016




We designed this BBK to be a track capable, budget conscious brake system, for customers in exactly this type of situation. Not only will your overall performance receive an upgrade an order of magnitude in proportions, but over time upkeep costs are extremely low.

We use 20mm thick brake pads in our kit, providing an enormous heat barrier for your calipers, and extreme pad lifespan. With proper pad choice, your rotors and pads will wear much slower than an over-driven stock system, and will cost much less in new pads and rotors to maintain overtime.

Check out the Product Page for more details.

 

I appreciate that you sell a reasonable priced BBK for the FD. But as I'm located in Germany and wan't to keep the car street legal, I need a certificate for the German "TUEV". Assuming this BBK hasn't one, its not an option for me.

 

the advertisement is strong in this thread.

 

Long time forum vendors and a small business run by enthusiasts who pay for the privilege to advertise their product, who also offer a great cost-effective solution for the subject at hand.... if that bothers you, don't know what to tell ya JC

 

The biggest issue with the stock brakes for track use is rotor thickness. They can't dissipate heat fast enough leading to brake fade. This can be helped with good brake ducts as mentioned but eventually you will find the limits and need to upgrade.

The Sake Bomb kit is a great offering. I have Pettit Racing's Outlaw kit which is almost identical to the sake bomb kit. The Pettit kit has worked great for me.

 

I agree completely.

I just bought the Sakebomb kit. I haven't installed it yet so haven't tried it on the track, but I have been using that model Wilwood caliper in a home-made BBK for about 6 years - they replaced some Outlaw 4000 calipers that I started with. The Wilwood calipers work extremely well on the track, and were substantially stiffer radially than the Outlaws (the Outlaws would taper the pads in the radial direction). Looking at the Pettit site, it looks like Outlaw has improved their caliper design since the 4000 (at least the bridgework is a solid piece) but the three piece design I see there isn't likely to be as stiff as the forged two piece Wilwood. Why three vs two piece? The caliper manufacturer supplies the same basic design to support multiple widths of rotors. Wilwood needs to make a separate casting for each width, to avoid the extra joint. Outlaw has one casting for the piston body for the entire family, and inserts bridges of different widths - so it is less expensive to manufacture, at the expense of stiffness.

The SBG is a great kit, price and build quality wise, and I fully expect it to perform extremely well on the track. Review the 35mm piston option (and consider that they are dedicated enough to offer a 35 mm piston option!) to avoid the large front-bias overweight typical of a BBK.

Besides that, it has been my experience that SBG is a creative, talented, forthright group trying to support our 23 year old cars. There aren't going to be many more of those companies, and it would be good if they stuck around.

 

Exactly... It's not that we're here simply to "advertise" a product we make, we're here to explain the proper solution for track use is NOT the stock rotors. Different BBK's have different advantages and disadvantages (cost, heat dissipation, anti-knockback springs (important for heavy track use), floating rotors, directional curved vane vs straight... but the point is the stock rotors are MIATA sized, on a car that makes 5x the power and weighs 500lbs more.

Get '99 Spec Mazda brakes, some Stoptech kit, ours... whatever the solution is it does not involve stock rotors. In 1999 Mazda changed the OEM brakes from 22mm thick to 32mm thick... Even Mazda knows the answer to this question but everyone wants to keep beating this same dead horse

 

I'd rather see someone have a legitimate solution on their car than sell them stock pads and stock rotors over and over and over.... and here's a little industry secret, you stand to generate more revenue selling lots of cheap consumables than a high ticket item. Selling consumables is a scam, if you're creating that much wear something in your equation is wrong

Being a vendor it's hard to convince people of the truth because everyone assumes our only goal is to sell someone on something they don't need, but I'm straight with people, stock rotors are too small for track use, and I'd even argue they are too small for higher than stock power levels. Now if you don't drive your car hard, stock brakes are just peachy, but that's not why we're all here

 

It does not bother me! I apologize for my provocative post.

we all agree on the truth: a $1500 upgraded braking system would be great. it also seems to be a good value for the money.

 

I just got back from 2 track weekends with the SBG Wilwood kit and Carbotech xp10s. I can vouch that they held up great at TWS which has a 140mph straight. Stock brakes were melting EBC reds at a much slower track.

 

I wouldn't consider EBC reds a road coarse pad. They are more of a street pad. Carbotech's make pads for stock calipers BTW and get good reviews (XP10/12's)

 

We've run the XP10/12 mix as well... I wasn't a fan. We had lots of pad buildup on the rotor in spotty sections which created pulsing. If you overheat those pads it seems to screw up the pad compound properties. New they were good, but a couple overheated events and modulation became really bad, initial bite was very low, and they started this strange deposit buildup in sections on the rotor.

For adhesive friction pads, they're ok if you don't overheat them... but if you must use stock brakes on track and want a really good adhesive friction based pad I highly recommend ME20 or ME22 Endless. The issue there is now the cost, which is INSANE (and we're a top-tier dealer, saying that). You're halfway to a BBK just in Endless pads alone, which was the opposite goal of trying to scrape by with stock brakes... trying to stay cheap.

Basically what we're talking about is how to balance a compromised braking system, and I know I'm biased but we've also done lots of testing, and have lots of experience over the years... the stock brakes can not absorb much heat, and are really poor at shedding that heat once they've been loaded up, so the only thing you can do is run the pads on insanely hot and potentially glowing rotors. Remember you're cooking wheel bearings now, boiling fluid, ruining piston seals, cooking dust boots, loading tons of heat into your wheel... it's a significant amount of wear and tear on the surrounding components.