Numbers not adding up, bad times with shops and power not where it should be
07-20-12, 06:22 PM
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Numbers not adding up, bad times with shops and power not where it should be
So after 6 months of shops working on my car, including a blown motor that was pretty fresh to begin with, tons of money wasted, it's been disappointing.
My build:
Suspension:
Work Equips wheels 18x9.5 +22/18x10.5 +18
w/ reverse lip barrels, faced powder coated gloss white with polished lips
Stance GR+Pro coilovers
PowerFlex Polyurathane bushings
AtomicRex racing spherical pillow *****
Brakes:
Hawk HP+ front pads
Hawk HP+ rear pads
Engine:
Block off plates
OMP adaptor plate with seperate tank for 2 stroke oil
Oil filter sandwich adaptor plate
SakeBomb Garage map sensor bracket
Exhaust System:
RX7store resonated midpipe
HKS Hi Power catback exhaust
Engine:
Pineapple racing medium streetport with goopy apex seals
Forced Induction:
GTX35R single turbo
Turblown Engineering turbo exhaust manifold
RX7store V-mount
Greddy elbow
Tial BOV
Tial MV-R wastegate
Cooling:
Samco coolant hoses
Dual oil coolers
Auxillery Injection:
Aquamist HFS3v2
w/ Aquamist RX7 summer
Howerton Engineering 2 Gallon water/meth tank
w/ Red LED
w/ cooling fan
Fuel:
CJ Motorsport Stage 1 complete fuel rail
w/ Aeromotive FPR
w/ Bosch 550cc/Injector Dynamic 2200cc injectors
Walbro 400LPN in-tank fuel pump
Electrical:
HKS Twin Power ignition amp
GM 3 bar map sensor
Apexi Power FC with commander
Apexi limited edition black AVCR boost controller
Defi Advance CR control unit
Defi Advance CR boost 52mm black
Defi Advance CR water temp 52mm black
Defi Advance CR oil temp 52mm black
Defi Advance CR oil pressure 52mm black
NGK AFX wideband
Interior:
Autometer A pillar triple pod
Level Zero Motorsports Black delrin shift ****
Exterior:
SakeBomb Garage HID projector headlights
SO finally after the shop rebuilt my motor after blowing it when they were shaking it down on the street and over boosting 2nd gear to 28psi and cracking apex seals on the build minus the engine build, it was stock ports before. Shop broke in the motor they say and tuned and made 390rwhp at 19psi on 91 octane pump fuel + 50/50 water methanol aux injection with afr at 10.75-10.88 they said. Unfortunately I'm in Germany just got there for a duty assignment and the car will get shipped to me here soon.
My build:
Suspension:
Work Equips wheels 18x9.5 +22/18x10.5 +18
w/ reverse lip barrels, faced powder coated gloss white with polished lips
Stance GR+Pro coilovers
PowerFlex Polyurathane bushings
AtomicRex racing spherical pillow *****
Brakes:
Hawk HP+ front pads
Hawk HP+ rear pads
Engine:
Block off plates
OMP adaptor plate with seperate tank for 2 stroke oil
Oil filter sandwich adaptor plate
SakeBomb Garage map sensor bracket
Exhaust System:
RX7store resonated midpipe
HKS Hi Power catback exhaust
Engine:
Pineapple racing medium streetport with goopy apex seals
Forced Induction:
GTX35R single turbo
Turblown Engineering turbo exhaust manifold
RX7store V-mount
Greddy elbow
Tial BOV
Tial MV-R wastegate
Cooling:
Samco coolant hoses
Dual oil coolers
Auxillery Injection:
Aquamist HFS3v2
w/ Aquamist RX7 summer
Howerton Engineering 2 Gallon water/meth tank
w/ Red LED
w/ cooling fan
Fuel:
CJ Motorsport Stage 1 complete fuel rail
w/ Aeromotive FPR
w/ Bosch 550cc/Injector Dynamic 2200cc injectors
Walbro 400LPN in-tank fuel pump
Electrical:
HKS Twin Power ignition amp
GM 3 bar map sensor
Apexi Power FC with commander
Apexi limited edition black AVCR boost controller
Defi Advance CR control unit
Defi Advance CR boost 52mm black
Defi Advance CR water temp 52mm black
Defi Advance CR oil temp 52mm black
Defi Advance CR oil pressure 52mm black
NGK AFX wideband
Interior:
Autometer A pillar triple pod
Level Zero Motorsports Black delrin shift ****
Exterior:
SakeBomb Garage HID projector headlights
SO finally after the shop rebuilt my motor after blowing it when they were shaking it down on the street and over boosting 2nd gear to 28psi and cracking apex seals on the build minus the engine build, it was stock ports before. Shop broke in the motor they say and tuned and made 390rwhp at 19psi on 91 octane pump fuel + 50/50 water methanol aux injection with afr at 10.75-10.88 they said. Unfortunately I'm in Germany just got there for a duty assignment and the car will get shipped to me here soon.
07-20-12, 07:34 PM
#3
Shop broke in the motor they say and tuned and made 390rwhp at 19psi on 91 octane pump fuel + 50/50 water methanol aux injection with afr at 10.75-10.88 they said. Unfortunately I'm in Germany just got there for a duty assignment and the car will get shipped to me here soon.
07-20-12, 09:01 PM
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The bolt ins build started at Jesse Prather Motorsports in Topeka, KS then after being way overcharged and work unfinished it went to ModifiedByKC in Kansas City, KS for tuning and fixing and that's where the blow up and low tuning #s came from.
07-20-12, 09:49 PM
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Both shops have been mentioned on this forum in the past as being Capable with rotaries back when in the tread about shops. MKC has some puerto rican guys there who drag older rotary cars and Jesse prathers family used to race FCs back when as well.
07-20-12, 09:49 PM
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ModifiedByKC does have some rotary experience but I wouldn't label them as experts. After my experience talking to them I wouldn't take my FD to them. I contacted them to tune my FD and when I mentioned my PFC they immediately started trash talking it and said I had to get a new ECU that they wanted to sell me.
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07-20-12, 10:04 PM
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Yea I'm pulling the car out with what it's making now and will have it shipped to me in Germany so that I can pick it apart with friends and make sure the build is correct then get retuned, I should def be in the high 400 whp range if not mid 500s with more boost added
07-20-12, 10:13 PM
#9
Is your car red by chance...? Thought I saw it sitting outside of MKC one day. If you are referring to poncho and nelson as the Puerto ricans then, I can say that I've heard nothing good about poncho tuning cars...I wanted him at first to tune my car (BNR stage 4,S4 motor) then the guy flaked on me 4 times after I had set times to get on the rollers at MKC.....FWIW my car made 365 to the wheels at 17 psi with 100% water pre turbo when skern tuned it this past October.....
07-20-12, 11:19 PM
#11
¿¿What are pistons??
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Yea I'm pulling the car out with what it's making now and will have it shipped to me in Germany so that I can pick it apart with friends and make sure the build is correct then get retuned, I should def be in the high 400 whp range if not mid 500s with more boost added
07-20-12, 11:27 PM
#12
Ok this is why I am against disabling overboosting fuel cut. That would have saved your engine right there, at least in that one instance.
I would consider that within an acceptable range for that setup, especially if they are using a dyno other than a Dynojet. I'm sure that's a deep 12 second car on street tires.
I would consider that within an acceptable range for that setup, especially if they are using a dyno other than a Dynojet. I'm sure that's a deep 12 second car on street tires.
Your real proof is in your 60-100 times. ALL dyno's vary, and some are really in left field.
07-20-12, 11:32 PM
#13
Yea I'm pulling the car out with what it's making now and will have it shipped to me in Germany so that I can pick it apart with friends and make sure the build is correct then get retuned, I should def be in the high 400 whp range if not mid 500s with more boost added
07-21-12, 05:04 AM
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As my water/meth injection system is a smart system it's set to 20% with a 50/50 water/meth mixture which is more than enough to push bigger power and push that 91 octane much further than capable on its own.
It's not venting I do that on FB, just putting my build and the results out there and seeing what people have to say. I honestly don't think the numbers aren't right with the support mods I've got, the porting, and that 19psi should be making more power that just high 300s.
It's not venting I do that on FB, just putting my build and the results out there and seeing what people have to say. I honestly don't think the numbers aren't right with the support mods I've got, the porting, and that 19psi should be making more power that just high 300s.
07-21-12, 10:07 AM
#17
As my water/meth injection system is a smart system it's set to 20% with a 50/50 water/meth mixture which is more than enough to push bigger power and push that 91 octane much further than capable on its own.
It's not venting I do that on FB, just putting my build and the results out there and seeing what people have to say. I honestly don't think the numbers aren't right with the support mods I've got, the porting, and that 19psi should be making more power that just high 300s.
It's not venting I do that on FB, just putting my build and the results out there and seeing what people have to say. I honestly don't think the numbers aren't right with the support mods I've got, the porting, and that 19psi should be making more power that just high 300s.
Does the car feel strong?
07-21-12, 10:45 AM
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Unfortunately I won't know if it feels strong until it gets shipped to me in Germany. Things took so long with that shop that I didn't get to see results before having to fly to Germany to report to my duty assignment.
07-21-12, 12:33 PM
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compressor map? Im not familiar with the gtx too much, but i could be a turbo that needs to really be cranked up to "come alive"
Dyno factor.
Other than that, its not necessarily a "bad" tune, maybe just more conservative. Log your EGTs and see whats up.
Dyno factor.
Other than that, its not necessarily a "bad" tune, maybe just more conservative. Log your EGTs and see whats up.
07-26-12, 04:34 PM
#22
seems like something is causing a restriction, something in the intake tract blocking flow or leaking boost making the turbo overwork to produce power or something constipating the exhaust. i would create a cap for the turbo to pressurize the system to check for leaks and double check the exhaust, timing may also be way too conservative or something in the ignition system not working, like leading coils..
that is a 500whp setup @19psi, assuming it is a T4 flange with .96A/R turbine or larger. some shops do not know that the turbo on these cars needs to be so large to flow decently, a .69A/R housing for example that would be about right at 400whp @19psi and would only pick up about 200RPMs worth of spool.
mid 500's is a stretch, even the best setup 13B will barely scrape out 500whp from a 35R, not sure about the GTX series but i doubt it is that much more efficient than the GT series. on a piston engine though, 700's are doable on a GT35R for example which gives an idea of how much more the turbo has to work on a rotary.
that is a 500whp setup @19psi, assuming it is a T4 flange with .96A/R turbine or larger. some shops do not know that the turbo on these cars needs to be so large to flow decently, a .69A/R housing for example that would be about right at 400whp @19psi and would only pick up about 200RPMs worth of spool.
mid 500's is a stretch, even the best setup 13B will barely scrape out 500whp from a 35R, not sure about the GTX series but i doubt it is that much more efficient than the GT series. on a piston engine though, 700's are doable on a GT35R for example which gives an idea of how much more the turbo has to work on a rotary.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 07-26-12 at 04:42 PM.
07-26-12, 04:52 PM
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Ah yea I thought I had listed that my bad, it's a gtx3582r t4 1.06 a/r turbo. At this point I'm assuming that it's something in the intake manifold. The exhaust system from turbo all the way back is all new pieces so I don't think there's any restrictions there but I'm still using a stock UIM, LIM, and throttle body. I plan on systematically going through the build and hopefully finding the problem and chance are the that's where the problem is and possible boost leaks but the shop had hunted for those too. It's also likely a weak tune and poor settings by them with my EBC. My plan is as stated systematically go through the build when the car arrives to me in germany then retune and probably step it up to 28psi while at it.
07-26-12, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RotaryEvolution
seems like something is causing a restriction, something in the intake tract blocking flow or leaking boost making the turbo overwork to produce power or something constipating the exhaust. i would create a cap for the turbo to pressurize the system to check for leaks and double check the exhaust, timing may also be way too conservative or something in the ignition system not working, like leading coils..
that is a 500whp setup @19psi, assuming it is a T4 flange with .96A/R turbine or larger. some shops do not know that the turbo on these cars needs to be so large to flow decently, a .69A/R housing for example that would be about right at 400whp @19psi and would only pick up about 200RPMs worth of spool.
mid 500's is a stretch, even the best setup 13B will barely scrape out 500whp from a 35R, not sure about the GTX series but i doubt it is that much more efficient than the GT series. on a piston engine though, 700's are doable on a GT35R for example which gives an idea of how much more the turbo has to work on a rotary.
that is a 500whp setup @19psi, assuming it is a T4 flange with .96A/R turbine or larger. some shops do not know that the turbo on these cars needs to be so large to flow decently, a .69A/R housing for example that would be about right at 400whp @19psi and would only pick up about 200RPMs worth of spool.
mid 500's is a stretch, even the best setup 13B will barely scrape out 500whp from a 35R, not sure about the GTX series but i doubt it is that much more efficient than the GT series. on a piston engine though, 700's are doable on a GT35R for example which gives an idea of how much more the turbo has to work on a rotary.
