efranklin

I made a post a few months back about a hypothetical situation and now it has become a reality. Heres the run down: I brought my car into this shop (remaining unnamed) to diagnose my car, turns out my stock turbo was blown and I had some extra cash so I decided to go single. He quoted me 4,400 before he started anything and I said thats doable and he said he would get started right away.. Well almost 3 months later the car only needs one more day of little random things, and he tells me what I have left to pay (already payed 4k of it) which is $1,300(<- I owe).. soooo 900 over what he quoted me.

He informs me he charged me for street tuning which is my main problem. I don't think he should have charged me for street tuning because without the street tune my car would run like *** and should be included with the single turbo upgrade(which alot of you shop owners said you would do for free), not to mention I had my car dyno tuned at his shop and a few weeks later and my first time fully boosting it the turbo blew (waste of 600$ on the tune).

So my question to you is, how would you asses the situation when I go in monday to pick it up? I wanna address my concerns to him without coming off as an *******. Ive spent nearly 10k at his shop now and I don't think he should charge me for "street tuning" let me know what you guys think. -Eric

dhays

iTrader: (1)

First off, I think your attitude about it is great. You have a much more mature presentation than many would.

I would address the issue directly. Tell him you are concerned because you were initially quoted a given price and you assumed that included all the services necessary to get your car back on the street, including a street tune. Tell you understand there was probably a misunderstanding initially on the original quote but you made your decision to go ahead and use his shop based on the quote and the amount of cash you had available to you. Explain that you now are in a financial bind because the bill is $900 more than what you understood it to be. Once you have explained your situation, then ask if there is any way that he can reduce the bill down to the original quote.

He will either say "yes", "no", or likely offer a compromise amount. If he says "no" then he likely has lost a customer, as well as any referrals you may have given him. If you present your case rationally, and respectfully, I'll bet he at least meets you part-way.

BigWillieStyles

If everything is working well its money well spent! But i would probably talk about it with him.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

I agree with dhays, and I'd shoot him an e-mail.

Nothing happens unless it can be proven.

Smitter

tuning is not covered in the price of any single turbo kit/labour.
but 900 bucks is way to much money to pay for street or dyno tuning

JConn2299

This is the crux of the problem. Did he ever tell you he was doing a street tune? Did you consent to it?

If you can answer no to both questions then he performed an unauthorized repair/service. If he went ahead without your authorization, informed you of it after the fact, and you went "Uh-uh" that doesn't count. He could have gold plated your rims and steering wheel and charged you $20,000 without your consent....would you be obligated to pay? NO.

I would try this gambit with him. Refuse to pay for the tune. Be aware though, it could get ugly. He could put a mechanic's lein on your car and keep it. Then you're in court or complaining to consumer authorities. If you've already paid him $4,000+ he's holding most of the cards and has little to lose in the short term.

Got an uncle or a neighbor who's a lawyer? That would help in making your initial "threat"......how you're outraged and you refuse to pay his unauthorized charge. blah, blah, blah.

This is a better way to approach it than arguing that you're due a free $1,300 (or whatever it is) street tune. 'Cuz then he's going to start throwing back to you all the labor and other things he had to put into it. Then you're involved in a standoff pissing contest.

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After he keeps your car 'cuz you've refused to pay, I suppose you could resort to an "extra-legal" step. You could "steal" it back with your spare set of keys. I suppose with a mechanic's lein he could report it stolen. Are the cops really going to bust you for stealing your own car? That's a question to which I don't know the answer.

We've got a high stakes drama going here though. Let us know how it turns out.

efranklin

He never told me "Im going to street tune it ok?" when I talked to him on the phone after a few weeks he informed on the updates and told me he had been street tuning and trying to work some hiccups out of the system.. I just replied by saying ok.

I don't want to make a big situation with lawyers and threats and whatever I just wanted to know how I should approach him.

I guess its partially my fault but the estimate was done over the phone and I did not get it in writing.

skir2222

What you can do is call a lawyer tell him/her about the situation and what happened usually they will tell you if your in the right or wrong, it's worth a shot nothing to lose. They know the law.

JConn2299

In any situation such as this you have to ask yourself what leverage do you have?

As I see it, you have three possible things you can use:

1.) You still have money that hasn't been paid.

2.) The mechanic never made it clear to you there would be an additional charge for a "street tune." He never got a clear consent from you for such an additional charge.

3.) There is always the possibility you could take him to small claims court (a lawyer is not needed for this), or you could file a complaint with the appropriate consumer affairs / protection agency.

From his point of view he has your car, approx. $4,000 of your money, and a firm idea that he's in the right and you owe him more money. If you think you're going to walk in there and persuade him to your point of view because you ask nicely or you start whining you are being naive.

The fact that you don't have anything in writing can work to your advantage. It means things are arguable and in dispute. This is how smart lawyers and negotiators earn their keep and often come out on top. If it's an open and shut case there's not much room to manuever.

Unless you can find a way to pressure him to move towards what you want he's going to keep your car until you pay the money he figures you owe him.

Red95FD

iTrader: (3)

Business is business. The bottom line is you did not discuss a tune. He decided to do the tune. It's separate in his mind so it should be separate in your mind. That's your arguement. Tell him you had plans for someone else to do the tune. It's hard to believe he didn't talk about a tune and then did one. Don't get angry, be firm.

dhays

iTrader: (1)

Additional conflict simply causes more stress. If he takes a confrontational approach, he may win $900 but he may also completely screw up his rep. OTOH, he might just be able to finesse this, get his car, get his tune, maintain a relationship with the mechanic (not a bad thing when you own an FD), and hopefully avoid spending more money.

Of the other issue is that an attorney is likely to cost more money than the $900 in question anyway.

I agree though, good luck and let us know how it turns out.

THI

Just pay the money and take your car home Next time have everything in writing!!!

JConn2299

"Screw up his rep"?!!! He's a customer! What rep does he have to worry about?
It's the shop owner who has to worry about his rep. Having an unsatisfied customer who feels he's been ripped off is very bad for a business' rep.

Let's review the case, shall we? efranklin has already spent close to $10,000 at this shop. The guy quoted him $4,400 for a single turbo installation (of which $4,000 has already been paid).....and now this mechanic is tacking on another $900 for a street tune! And this extra charge apparently came without being requested. The guy just went ahead and did it and charged efranklin without obtaining clear prior consent.

Don't you think it's about time efranklin stood up and said, "Whoa, fella!" This has all the appearances of a fleecing.

efranklin has another leverage point. Complaining about a ripoff here on the Forum can cost this mechanic business with the RX-7 community.
As I say, it's the mechanic who should be worried about his reputation.

And despite what you wrote in your post, you don't need a lawyer to go to small claims court. That should be a last resort, but it is an option.

efranklin

Well you guys have explained to me three situations, pay it and be done with it, take him to court or atleast threaten to take him to court, or just go in and talk to him about it.

I personally am going to go in and talk to him about the situation and go from there. Do you guys think I should email him also to get something in writing? I know theres alot of shop owners on the forums, I wish some of them would chime in.

JConn2299

You're misconstruing what I'm saying. I say you should go in and talk to him. But in talking to him you need some leverage. You'll have to make a forceful argument. In his mind you owe him $900 for a street tune. Now what are you gonna say to talk him out of it? "Oh, please don't, I'm a nice guy" ? I don't think so. You need a stratagem, a gambit, to persuade or pressure him not to charge you the $900 he thinks you owe him.

I've given you 3 or 4 leverage points you have on your side. I suggest you use one or more of them. I'd start with the fact that he was never clear that you would owe extra $$$ over and above his original price quote, and that he never obtained your prior consent before performing this extra charge work. (In some states it's illegal to charge more than 10% above the initial estimate without the customer's consent.)

Obviously you save your heavy artillery for last. "Talk softly, but carry a big stick" as the old saying goes. If the first part of your stratagem doesn't work, then you may have to move on to Phase 2. (Threatening to publicize the dispute on the Forum or going to small claims court should be held for last --- if used at all.)

I don't know how old you are, but I'm going to guess you haven't been involved in many business negotiations. I'm not going to script the whole thing out for you,
but you should walk in there having an idea of how you're going to proceed. One session may not do it. You may have to walk out of there with the situation unresolved...but you've left him with something to think about. Or you may have to have a bottom line compromise figure in mind to which you'll hold firm. An extra $200? $500? There are various ways you can go about this and several arguments you can mount.

I think you see some of the mistakes that were made in this situation. The biggest one was paying the bulk of the money up front. That severely reduced your leverage. In most garages, for most repair work, the work is done first, THEN the customer pays.

If the customer refuses to pay, the business can exercise its mechanic's lein. But in truth, most disputed bills are resolved with a compromise. Why? Because the customer still has leverage. The business owner needs to get some money out of a job. He can't afford to have a car sitting there without cash in hand.
That's not the case here. In this case, the mechanic has the bulk of the money owed AND he has your car. He can afford to tell you to pay up or take a hike.

You need to show him why that's not in his interest, and that he should move towards your position.

JConn2299

I wouldn't, unless you can get him to admit something in your favor, which is unlikely. Otherwise you're just giving him a chance to document his side of the case. He could write back something like:

"As I informed you in our phone call of 4/8/2008 your car needed a street tune to run properly. We discussed the various problems in setting up your car. I estimated the cost of engine tuning at $900 labor and you gave me your approval to complete this job. I am puzzled as to why you are now complaining to me via this e-mail."