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Motec vs. All?

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Old 01-16-18, 01:34 AM
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Motec vs. All?

So recently Motec has just released a Rotary package for their new M1 series ECU. Has anybody on the forum have experience with this yet? Is it worth the extra money to go with a Motec than say a Haltech, Link, or Adaptronic?
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Old 01-16-18, 02:21 AM
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It really depends on your goals with the car... there isn't much you cant do with a Haltech Elite 1500 or 2500. I personally have a Haltech 1500, and I could have sprung for the 2500 to add some extra features in later but the 1500 is plenty for the average enthusiast build.

From what I read on the Motec system, it's more geared towards 4 rotor usage, anything for a 2 or 3 rotor would easily be handled by a Haltech.


But as with any ECU....to get the optimal result .... go with what your trusted tuner is comfortable, familiar and proficient with.
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Old 01-16-18, 09:57 AM
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Also helps when you have some community support behind it. At this point the Motec isn't used much if at all in the enthusiast community, which means if you have trouble or questions you're on your own.

I don't know if it's still the case but Motec ECU's have been traditionally VERY expensive. They are top quality, for sure, but you have to look at what you get for the cost.

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Old 01-16-18, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 403rx7 View Post
It really depends on your goals with the car... there isn't much you cant do with a Haltech Elite 1500 or 2500. I personally have a Haltech 1500, and I could have sprung for the 2500 to add some extra features in later but the 1500 is plenty for the average enthusiast build.

From what I read on the Motec system, it's more geared towards 4 rotor usage, anything for a 2 or 3 rotor would easily be handled by a Haltech.


But as with any ECU....to get the optimal result .... go with what your trusted tuner is comfortable, familiar and proficient with.
​​​​I originally wanted the 2500 but the more I researched motec and saw how many people use the new M1 series in professional racing circuits it seems like their the best option
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Old 01-17-18, 02:26 AM
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I have a Motec M800 in my FD and the Motec M1 in my Ferrari. They are expensive, but I would say they are the best EMS available. You pay for many features individually as add-ons. And, you really need a better timing trigger to take advantage of their tremendous resolution. However, done right, they will add a good deal of power and be a lot smoother over the power range than anything else.
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Old 01-17-18, 08:26 AM
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But, and this can't be stated enough, you need to be sure that there is a tuner that you will be working with that can tune the system. Not just "sure, we'll figure it out" but "I've tuned plenty of those and know them inside and out, and know tuning rotary engines".

Also, as stated, you really have to compare costs to other ECU's and realistically look at what you want from the car. There are tons of people running the PowerFC (which is very reasonable) and making impressive power with good drivability.

Big thing here is don't spend all the money on an ECU when it could go to other aspects of the car that you would get more benefit from - better tires, suspension, brakes, etc. Put the money where you get the most out of it.

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Old 01-17-18, 01:10 PM
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Dale makes great points, as always. There are some Motec tuners. I used Brian Treffeisen and he is very, very good with Motec. There is another guy named Paul Summers who is also very good with Motec. And, I'm sure that Simon Wagner at Motec -- the guy who may be largely responsible for providing rotary functionality to the M1 EMS -- can put people in touch with other tuners. I want to make a point about Motec that is very important. Unlike nearly every other EMS vendor, Motec provides immediate and knowledgeable assistance to customers. I can tell you that Microtech and Haltech do not provide any meaningful assistance and customers, including myself with both of those vendors, have been very frustrated and even angry about the lack of support.

Dale's point about being sure you have really thought out what you want from your motor and car overall and what your budget is can't be over-emphasized. If you have a large or unlimited budget, I would strongly recommend Motec. But, for many people, any of several other EMS products will do a very good job and spending less on it will free up money for shocks and springs and sway bars and brakes or a better turbo or whatever else you are planning. Motec is for those who can afford it and who can afford all the other parts that fit with the very best and most expensive EMS.

Most of us that have been here a long time have seen people talking about doing single turbo upgrades for $15,000 or some other silly number. A full blown Motec M1 and MilSpec wiring harness will set you back that much. Putting in a PFC and some Ohlins shocks and good sway bars on an otherwise stock car will make a very nice upgrade and a really fun car to drive.
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Old 01-18-18, 04:28 PM
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I'll always suggest Motec builds on race vehicles due to their ruggedness, flexibility and support. Generally not so much for a street vehicle as I think there are far more bang for your buck sinkholes to put your money :P

As far as the comment RE: more power and smoother running I'd have to respectfully disagree and say that has more to do with the tuners ability than limitations of current gen. 'lesser' ECUs. In the past Motec's 40x21 load site gear was being compared to hardware restricted to 16x16 sites, now comparable (on paper at least, not as far as support + QC) and more affordable units are running 32x32 load site maps etc. This is in reference to Mxxx ECUs only, I haven't gotten my hands on an M1 to put on the engine dyno yet.
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Old 01-18-18, 07:29 PM
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I don't know you, but assume you are a tuner. If so, I'm surprised by your response. Motec is not better than other ECU's solely because of its high resolution. It is the incredible flexibility -- functions and features -- it offers that the other ECU's do not. No one can make an Adaptronic do what a Motec can. I respectfully suggest you are misleading people thinking about what ECU they need by saying that the different results between cars with one ECU versus another are due largely to the tuner's ability. How many ECU's let you directly adjust fuel trim by primary versus secondary injector by rotor?
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Old 01-18-18, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gmonsen View Post
I don't know you, but assume you are a tuner. If so, I'm surprised by your response. Motec is not better than other ECU's solely because of its high resolution. It is the incredible flexibility -- functions and features -- it offers that the other ECU's do not. No one can make an Adaptronic do what a Motec can. I respectfully suggest you are misleading people thinking about what ECU they need by saying that the different results between cars with one ECU versus another are due largely to the tuner's ability. How many ECU's let you directly adjust fuel trim by primary versus secondary injector by rotor?

I specifically praised it for its flexibility in the first sentence of my post and am looking forward to being able to delve into an M1 with the dev upgrade in the future . Also don't take my response as trying to mislead people or say that the Mxxx series of ECUs is a bad choice, I just feel that on a properly built street vehicle there is a better use for the extra 5k +/- than to go with a full Motec install and that 95% of tuners (both home brew and 'professional') will not use even half of the flexibility of a Motec. If you've got the scratch, go for it, but it usually wont benefit you much.

That said, I will never suggest anything but a Motec on the cars we build for competition so I'm not quite sure I understand the static?
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Old 01-19-18, 03:46 PM
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dguy... First, no worries. We generally agree. However, what I was commenting on was your sentence, "more power and smoother running I'd have to respectfully disagree and say that has more to do with the tuners ability than limitations of current gen. 'lesser' ECUs". What I am specifically saying is that the Motec allows you to achieve more power and smoother running expressly due to its features and functions. You seemed to be attributing that to the tuner and not the ECU. I didn't think you were intentionally misleading anyone, but the notion that a really good tuner can achieve the same power levels and driveability and smoothness with an Adaptronic, say, as with the Motec M800 or M1 is simply not the case. Some people might have thought you were saying that.
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Old 01-21-18, 10:54 AM
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the other thing we should mention is accuracy. the stock ecu, PFC, and the motec are accurate. the older haltechs are not.

personally i would rather not run a haltech on a rotary, they have too many issues, we even have trouble with it on the miata. the only difference is that the miata doesn't make enough power to damage itself.

the big haltech bug seems to be/have been (haven't tried the elite), if you use a lot of outputs, like on a 3 rotor, the ecu overheats (or something), and the output side shuts down. we've also learned that the data log occurs in the software, so the output side of the ecu can completely shut down but it doesn't show on the datalog!
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Old 01-21-18, 11:19 AM
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^ Yep. I have used the e6, e11, and a somewhat newer one, but not the Elites. Had many issues and got NO support.
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Old 01-22-18, 01:13 AM
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Yeah, the E units and platinum sports were shitty. Where the older units were pretty spotty the Elites are lightyears beyond what they used to put out (in my opinion and experience) and haven't posed any problems in customer cars so far. We'll see.
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Old 01-22-18, 03:39 AM
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Shane T has done a TON of MoTec Rotaries, including the 20B from Lucky7Racing and this MONSTER (I hope the video shows up... This is exactly how I'd do an FD)

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Old 01-23-18, 02:45 AM
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Link makes a great ECU for rotary as well. There rev limiter and 2 step/launch control is supposedly more rotary friendly because the way they time the ignition and fuel cut rather then all at once and was actually copied from a oem Mazda ECU.
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Old 01-26-18, 07:20 PM
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Anyone want to comment on the adaptronic ECU that has one? Was thinking of this ecu for my next single setup. E85, 6 injectors.
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Old 01-26-18, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dguy View Post
Yeah, the E units and platinum sports were shitty. Where the older units were pretty spotty the Elites are lightyears beyond what they used to put out (in my opinion and experience) and haven't posed any problems in customer cars so far. We'll see.
Originally Posted by MazdaspeedR1 View Post
Link makes a great ECU for rotary as well. There rev limiter and 2 step/launch control is supposedly more rotary friendly because the way they time the ignition and fuel cut rather then all at once and was actually copied from a oem Mazda ECU.
I just wish Link made a ECU that did everything all there other ECU's did all in one. Instead they have a huge product where every ecu has one or two features that the other one doesn't. It's kind of annoying. Just make one box that does everything.
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Old 01-27-18, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by The Same Son View Post
I just wish Link made a ECU that did everything all there other ECU's did all in one. Instead they have a huge product where every ecu has one or two features that the other one doesn't. It's kind of annoying. Just make one box that does everything.
I have the G4 extreme which did everything at the time. I believe there top of the line ecu is called the Thunder. That should do it all.
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Old 01-31-18, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DaleClark View Post
Also helps when you have some community support behind it. At this point the Motec isn't used much if at all in the enthusiast community, which means if you have trouble or questions you're on your own.

I don't know if it's still the case but Motec ECU's have been traditionally VERY expensive. They are top quality, for sure, but you have to look at what you get for the cost.

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Motec will give you endless support directly. I tune with motec all the time. It's a lot better to talk to a Motec engineer than searching through or posting on forums in my experience!
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Old 01-31-18, 10:24 AM
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Having used MANY other systems including LIFE racing and Bosch motorsports ecus I'd pick Motec EVERY time.
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Old 02-01-18, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sketch_hs View Post
Motec will give you endless support directly. I tune with motec all the time. It's a lot better to talk to a Motec engineer than searching through or posting on forums in my experience!
Originally Posted by Sketch_hs View Post
Having used MANY other systems including LIFE racing and Bosch motorsports ecus I'd pick Motec EVERY time.
I find that people who have actually used Motec's and have them in their cars all say the same thing. The are simply the best you can get.
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