ehos

Yeah yeah, I know I'm going to get flamed, but just hear me out? I hope contrarian views are allowed here as well...

I know FD owners love to tinker with their cars. But at the same time they come back and complain about the high cost of rebuilds/unreliability etc etc. This sets a bad precident in many ways (too many horror storries, lots of molested/unfinished FD's out there etc etc).

My arguement is that 'mods' don't really do much for your FD. (Except for reliability mods that is).

Check this out...

http://dyno.zeroglabs.com/graph.php?...1&SUBMIT=GRAPH

Pay attention to the red lines (one is a single turbo, the other a modified twin). Check out Car 31. He has a modified intake, downpipe, midpipe, cat, intercooler.

BIG gains huh? The rest of the lines are stock FD except for the single turbo (also in red).

I betcha Car 31 will be rebuilding his engine soon (for very small gains over stock cars). Is it really worth it for that mariginal gain over 5000RPM's? (Plus he had the privilige of paying for all those 'mods').

In fact, he is making LESS power down low!

adam c

iTrader: (2)

An FD can be modded fairly easily, to be safe and reliable. My plan was to keep a stock look, be smog legal, and have about 300 rwhp. I have achieved my goal.

Any 13 year old car is going to need work, stock or otherwise.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

?!

Intake, DP, MP, IC, catback (with proper tuning and 12 psi) ought to get you 300 @ the wheels... up from what? 217 stock. What do you consider a big gain or "doing much" for the car? Double the horsepower?

None of those things really affect the reliability or propensity for needing a rebuild... that's down to YOU, how you maintain the car, and how you've ballanced glory power mods with reliability mods (that aren't always as glorious to purchase)

I dare say my mods which allow a streetable car from 1992, maintaing the original twin-turbo sequential config., to run with brand new $100,000 machinery on road and track and still transport me and a trailer 5-6 hours home has done PLENTY for the car...

RX7-2JOCK

Your going to have to do a rebuild regardless modded or not....granted more mods = more wear and tear possibly = faster rebuild. Prior to my motor swap, I was only running intake, exhaust, and FMIC @ 110,xxx and my motor was beginning to go.

FormerPorscheGuy

The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long

But who really cares, these cars shouldn't be driven daily anyways.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Is 110,000 miles before a rebuild supposed to be a shortcoming? For a high performance car, that should be considered a GIFT. Check out the rebuild schedule on a Ferrari motor... and they aren't any $4k fully built and installed like a 13B.

Whaddya think your driving, a Volvo?

rynberg

At first, I thought this was a bash the moderators thread..


Are modifications pointless? Nope. Some of us want to have more power, or to remove the few compromises Mazda put into the car.

I'm not going to argue that I think most single turbo installations aren't really that much faster than fully modded stock/modified twins. But they are much simpler to maintain and allow the motor to run cooler.

Suspension and brake upgrades merely reinforce the higher speed capabilities and remove ride comfort compromises in handling precision.

If any mods could be considered pointless, it would be aftermarket body pieces, given Mazda's near perfection of aesthetical design. But most people here already know how I feel about aftermarket body pieces...

JaNusSolSumnus

I'm sorry but 70hp peak gain is not marginal in my mind by any means.... that is dropping more than a second off the 1/4mi and doing much more in the top end.... also the low end losses are pretty minor in that car surprisingly, loosing only 20-25rwhp before making more power than the rest of them.....

Either way I live by the twins and I lost my motor due to wreckless modding (fuel system lacking with a midpipe installed) and I dont blame Mazda... any motor running boost that goes lean will pop, ours are just more sensitive.

~Kris

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

car is the most fun to drive with a downpipe as the only mod..... once you make tons of power the car is too serious (and the owner too paranoid) for it to be fun. on the street

ehos

What's the point of having a car if you can't drive it? You've made my point for me. If you 'mod' your car to make it less driveable, then what's the point?

DamonB

It's amazing how many people trumpet all these must have reliability mods and yet have to work on their cars all the time Too many people try to fix what isn't broken while imagining new problems that don't need fixing. My car is nearly stock and is run very hard very often while having fewer issues than most here.

DamonB's Un-Mod list

I don't mind wrenching on the car but I enjoy driving it hard more than working on it.

KaiFD3S

iTrader: (37)

huh...my car has got a lot of mods, I would drive it more if it was'nt for the weather here, I find my car more reliable with the single than with the twins....also wish there was a track here or some events that I could take the car too....the thing I would be paranoid about are vandals....

Section8

iTrader: (6)

I hear that. My car is pretty stock too, and with the exception of my plans for a radiator soon, I plan to keep it that way for a while. I've only had one problem with mine since I got it, and that was the fuel pump, quick fix car was only down for 3 days and most of that time was waiting for the new pump.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I wouldn't want to daily drive any thoroughbred sportscar, RX7 or otherwise... that's just the nature of the beast. Why would I want to commute back and forth to work, bumper to bumper in potholed DC in rain and snow and salt in my pristine RX7.

I think my car is MORE driveable modded... on the TRACK, and in the right on-road situations where it belongs. It's all about tailoring the car to do what you want to do with it, and do it well or better than it did before.

If your not going to be engaging in the sort of driving that RX7's are built for, and thus the sort of driving that mods can make it better for, buy a Volvo.

TwinTriangles

I mod my car so that it continues to give that adrenaline rush to me driving it and to whomever may be riding in it. Also, I've got a good sized list of mods I've done to my car over the years and it has yet to leave me stranded once.

ehos

That arguement doesn't work well for me personally.

Why would I spend thousands of dollars on my FD to make it 'track' worthy (and less driveable in the real world), when for around 3G's I have a track CBR that will tear it apart.

mibad

Power is intoxicating. Read about this project car and tell me you don't want it.....

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...05scc_projrx7/

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

What exactly are you looking for here? I can't justify spending your money for you, only you can do that. Spend it how ever you like.

The thread is about wether or not mods are "pointless", and I think the "argument" I present is that they aren't, if you're inclined to engage in the sort of activities that let you make use of them. The "real world" for my car is how I use it. If you use yours differently, you should probably approach any modifications you do differently.

If you want to go to the track on a motorcycle (CBR?) that's ENTIRELY different isn't it? That's a motorcycle. This is a car. I personnally don't want to ride a motorcycle. Are you trying to turn this into a debate on wether or not modding RX7's is the most cost-effective way to go fast on track? It isn't. Motorcycles are cheaper. So What?

So what the **** is your point?

TwinTriangles

ehos it sounds to me like you just dont like your car. So why dont you sell it to someone who will appreciate it ?

cabaynes

iTrader: (4)

Dude, if you really don't like the thought of modifying then don't do it! Seriously, everyone has different opinions and tastes, and people spend money on things they want because IT'S FUN FOR THEM.

You coming on here questioning the entire idea of tuning isn't going to make you very popular, and you're surely not going to convince anyone here to stop spending money on their cars. Just because you don't understand doesn't make your point valid, so there is no use in arguing. If you like your FD stock, then keep it that way! Some people like to spend all their money on a car they barely drive... like me!

ehos

I love my car. Just presenting a differing point of view.

I love my car so much, that I don't think there is anything else that needs to be done to it

Didn't mean to come off in any other way. I posted a few dyno comparisions up there. I'm sure the 'tuner' meant well, but he spent all that cash/time on modding his car, and it's MARGINALLY better than stock FD's.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

I question the graph. 13 psi should get that FD (Car 31) anywhere in the 310-350 RWHP. Personally I think that it's a typo. An FD with car 31's mods should put it in the 260 - 280 RWHP range at 10 PSI which it is..



Look at this one

http://dyno.zeroglabs.com/graph.php?...1&SUBMIT=GRAPH

almost 350 to the wheels.

Edit--

WAIT a minute HOLD THE PRESSES!!!

Ok weird. I just Graphed car 31 and it is now kicking out relizable numbers (just make sure that you refresh the screen every time)

http://dyno.zeroglabs.com/graph.php?...1&SUBMIT=GRAPH

There is something wrong with your original graph.

Here are both cars with similar mods: (again refresh if the screen looks wrong)

http://dyno.zeroglabs.com/graph.php?...1&SUBMIT=GRAPH


Conclusion: Mods = not pointless

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

A 50 rwhp increase on a car that only has 220 tops to being with ISN'T marginal... it's almost 25%.


In any case, pointless TO YOU, isn't quite the same as pointless at all. The way you're using the word, it's as though you're asserting that you don't make any gains with the mods, and that isn't the case.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

.

silverTRD

iTrader: (37)

i think this is a "POINTLESS" thread. lol