Hot_Dog

The official word is finally out. See link below for full article:

Mazda CEO Rules Out Rotary-Powered Sports Car

04G35S

iTrader: (10)

I saw this last night and I can honestly say that I am not surprised. IMO Mazda has seriously dropped the ball in recent years. The cars feel very cheap overall and are just not impressive.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

That means our cars will be even more valuable

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Per my myriad posts in the other thread, Mazda are ball-less losers who do small things decently.

Spalato

iTrader: (33)

Kind of sad news. But makes the rx-7 even more special.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

He needs a better excuse as this sounds like a horseshit to me. That segment already existed when they were building the Rx8. That's why you hire more people when more resources are needed??? I guess the CEO expects us to believe that a multi billion dollar company can't afford to hire more engineeres during a time when they are making huge profits? Lol! To me it makes no sense to have rotary specific engineeres developing for non rotary applications. ANY engineer can assist with sky active tech. The same can not he said for rotary specific tech.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

The new miata will have less than 200 HP and the soccer moms mini van or yukon will out run it



The CEO has made it abundantly clear that he's focused primarily on making money so making another rotary is the last thing on his mind.

I will always have love for Mazda and hopefully the new miata sells well but no way in hell would I buy one when I have a 2650 pound 340 RWHP FD.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I was at Sema this past week and had the pleasure and displeasure of staring at this thing.








The pleasure was seeing that Toyota has the ***** to build such a beast. The displeasure was standing there as a rotary enthusiast and knowing that Mazda may not build something to take it on.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

My other cars are both Toyota's. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that I'd just consolidate if that thing ever came out.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

how could you live with yourself? that thing is atrocious, even for a toyota its ugly.

Spalato

iTrader: (33)

Mazda used to be so bold...coming out of WW2 destruction and just making awesome cars. Taking risks. Making one of the best sports cars in history. Today...they can compete with Suzuki...great job guys

I really hope the CEO is just trolling us. But in another sense its really cool owning the last turbo rotary car in history.

I'll be removing the stock 93 Mazda emblem on my FD and will be replacing it with an RX-2 badge, to remind me of a time when the company had *****

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i agree with the first part, if they are making money, and aren't big enough, hiring people seems like a logical option... and Mazda is small enough that they could make a big difference with only a few people. seems like an opportunity to me.

the second part though i'm not sure about, Mazda is the company that gave the LeMans cars to the PRODUCTION engineers, which is probably not the only instance of this, but its pretty rare. if you made me the engineering head, i wouldn't have every engineer cross train (or whatever you call it), but some is good. at some point a good engineer is a good engineer

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Caring a very small **** whether a future RX is produced. My curiosity is centered on whether anyone is successful in commercially re-chroming housings. Seems like if that doesn't happen in the next few years, a lot of the current RX cars will become garage queens or LSX holders.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I know what you mean but I should have thrown the word "experienced" rotary engineer in there. BTW that Toyota looks even better in person. I like the mean focused look.

RENESISFD

iTrader: (13)

You don't need to be a rotary specific engineer. Combustion engines operate on basic principals, in the eyes of an engineer there is nothing special about a rotary engine, just different problems.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

even though the rational side of me expected this as most probable, the other side of my brain is very very sad..

the good news is i do have what i want and Mazda can't take it from me.

as to BREW parts, i can assure, it is highly probable that we will have rotor housings and other key parts going forward. i know of one company that has both the resources and track record to actually get it done. i am not worried about BREW parts.

Mazda without the rotary?

oh well.

howard

Spalato

iTrader: (33)

if they're not going to keep on developing the rotary anymore...they should release any patents they have on it, so others can keep on improving it

arghx

iTrader: (3)

If it's true, I can't blame them. If you were boss of Mazda, do you want to be the guy who dumped all those resources in a project that probably won't make them any money in a difficult economic climate? Rotary engines bankrupted NSU due to releasing them with an unproven/unreliable design and made NSU be absorbed by Audi. They greatly weakened Mazda in the 1970s when gas prices shot up.

S2000 is dead, 370Z isn't selling well, Rx-8 is dead. That segment isn't there, and neither is the segment that existed when the FD was around (twin turbo Supra, Rx-7, 3000GT, 300ZX).

I can speak from first hand experience... a lot of the money is not just from engineering head count. A big cost are prototype engines, which typically cost around $100k each (mule vehicles are easily 2-3 times that). You might need dozens of those over the various phases of the development program at the very minimum. Then you need engine dyno time, which is very expensive. If I have a dyno lab with 50 dynos, and it takes 10-15 dynos with associated technicians to tune the engine and test the hardware, well that's 10-15 dynos I can't devote to making engines which will go into more vehicles and be profitable. The alternative is outsourcing dyno time, which is even more expensive and harder to coordinate.

A lot of the jobs are similar. Individual engineers have to be responsible for individual parts, like the water pump. Whether it's a rotary or a piston engine, that job is still pretty similar. Somebody has to coordinate all the basic testing like certifying it for emissions, doing the transmission shift schedule for any non-manual transmission, that kind of thing. You might have only half a dozen "rotary engineers" whose job requires hardcore rotary knowledge.

The vast majority of manpower you would put towards a rotary could go into some other project.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Your other quotes made me more aware of some things.

Now on to that segment thing. Actually it is there. The domestics are owning that segment. Everyone here knows that hp is what sells cars here in the states and all the above have lost in that war and are nearly extinct because of it. I can guarantee that the next Supra "or whatever you wanna call that concept" will be in par with whatever's being sold by the big 3. If you can buy a 400+hp Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger for under 40k, why aren't the Japs doing the same? Both Toyota and Nissan already have V8 engines to compete. Their just not sticking them in performance vehicles people want to buy. Toyota may make a liar out of me.

Spalato

iTrader: (33)

I would imagine the the Nissan GT-R selling quite well considering its high MSRP...

I agree that high HP sells...

wutangben

iTrader: (15)

this shouldn't come as a shock to anyone

arghx

iTrader: (3)

you're certainly right that if I can get a 430hp mustang for $30k people are going to come to expect that kind of power out of something more expensively priced. An entry into that price range certainly can't have less power than the current 370Z.

There are other points that have been made about generational differences. Who would buy the car, with baby boomers retiring and maybe not being so interested? It would have to be a Gen X type of person who hasn't been hit too hard by the economy. Or it would have to be in emerging markets, as emerging economies seem to be more focused on cars as status symbols.

My generation (older Millenial) by and large don't care about these kind of cars (370Z segment or more expensive than that), and if they do care they can't afford it due to student loans. That's not going to change in 5 years. If anything, anti-automobile/necessary evil attitude or "meh" towards cars will only harden with coming generations in USA, Japan, and Europe. Ridesharing apps were invented by dudes who I could have gone to highschool with. That's where the glamour is now. Now Being able to afford living in an area where you don't have to drive is sort of a generational status symbol, which is the opposite of how it was 75-100 years ago when cars allowed you to escape urban areas and ditch public transit.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

^The Gtr's performance is what really makes that car worth its asking price.
Also having 500+hp helps. There's money to be made out there. Why Nissan hasn't put a detuned 400hp version of the Gtr engine is a 370Z makes no since to me.

Spalato

iTrader: (33)

Yeah exactly. Turbo 370z from the factory...starting at 35-37K going up to 43-45K

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

a quick google shows that between 2008-2013 Renault has sold something 7860 GTR's in the US, which, given the price, and the down market in 08-09, is probably "quite well", it was probably never meant to sell in huge numbers.

just to add a data points, in 2013

Porsche sold 10,442 911's

Chevy sold 13,466 Vettes

hyundai sold 30,711 velosters.

38,157 people bought Jukes

and 5780 people bought Miatas in 2013.


if you want my opinion, the NC miata is a big flop, 74,995, from 2006-2013. the Rx8 sold 73,379, and is dead.