capt. bill1

The results are in. And while they are disappointing, they also are very informative. The good news, the engine is in one piece. The bad news, it only made 276.0rwhp at 12 psi due to the fact that I have a fuel flow problem. The HP comes on real quick, 170 hp by 3500 rpm then builds to 200 hp at 4600 and dips at the turbo change to 170 hp again then builds at a 45 deg. angle on the graph to 265 hp at 6000 and then flattens and stumbles and bumbles it's way up to 276 hp and 233.5 torque ( the torque curve closely shadows the HP curve till 52 to 5300 rpm) at 7500 rpm then falls flat on it's face out of fuel. At full throttle and max rpm I only saw 12.4 to 12.6 on the wide band! Not good! Thank goodness I juiced the gas with toluene to bring the octane up to 94 - 95 before the runs. The J&S knock sensor never showed any retarding even at these lean fuel mixtures. Talked with Brett at M2 and he said with stock turbos I should have seen 310+ hp at 14 psi with my setup. And at least that much with the high flow units at 12 psi while reminding me that their stage 3 ECU will not handle these turbos at over 12 psi of boost. I will post the graphs in a day or two after I scan them. When you see the graphs you will see that if the fuel had been there the HP would have kept up rising to well over 300 and I assume it would go higher before the turbo change over at 4600 rpm as well because it must have been running lean as the first turbo built boost also. So now it's on to finding the fuel problem, filter, regulator, injectors? And new runs after that. I'm I disappointed? Sure. But the boost does build very fast, the high HP potential is there and I didn't blow the motor while finding a major problem. So all in all a good day. Stay tune, the saga continues.

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Well keep us up to date, and thanks for the dyno! CJ

rx7eaven

This is very interesting, keep us posted.

capt. bill1

I am going by my friends shop today and will get the ball rolling to find the problem/s. Just knowing there is 40 - 50 HP just waiting to come alive is driving me nuts! I guess we will get a fuel pressure gauge hooked up and then start by changing the fuel filter, testing the regulator and down the line to the injectors. If anybody has any thoughts on this please pass them along.

maxpesce

I suggest in addition to changing the fuel filter and Cleaning & blueprinting the Injectors, get an Adjustable Raising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator. - The stock FPR refs ambient press and so you lose 1psi effective FP @ the injectors for each additional 1psi of Boost - at 14psi Boost you essentally lose 4psi effective FP vs stock 10psi boost injector Fuel Flow is proportional to effective FP ( effective press = FP at the injector - MAP)

newRX7fan

iTrader: (1)

Huh? The stock FP rises as boost rises psi for psi. An ARRFPR allows you to make boost rise, for example, 2psi for 1 psi of FP.

spyfish007

Oh captain my captain .... please post your mods ... I am curious.

capt. bill1

spyfish007, M2 high flow ball bearing twin turbos
M2 large intercooler
M2 cold air box
M2 stage 3 ECU
Jacobs ignition
Pully kit
Wrapped DP, high flow cat, PFS cat back
Comp. radiator
GReddy profec B
J$S knock sensor
New sec. gen. leading coil and wires
Alum. flywheel
Center Force clutch
Miata fan switch

M2 says with their stage 3 mods that they see 310rwhp on the dyno all the time. So with my mods I should be seeing at least that. Like I said it's driving me nuts just knowing there is at least 30hp sitting under the hood waiting for me to find it.

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Had you ever dynoed it before the turbos went on? As far as the stage 3 ecu goes, it might be time to sell it and get a PFC or some other tuneable ecu. With the stock turbos and your setup, Brian's maps are pretty good, alittle rich, but still they are spot on for most cars. Throwing the turbos on there even the same boost as without them and you are going to be too lean for the ecu to handle with its fuel maps. I don't think its the filter or FPR, unless there was something wrong with the car before the turbos went on.

spyfish007

Here is another question for you. Does it feel like the car is missing or just not smooth?

capt. bill1

Tim, No, I did not dyno it before the turbos went on. Yes it is time to move up to a programable management system. But talking with M2 they feel that at 12 psi of boost with these turbos I should not be running that lean with the stage 3 ECU and it should be making 310+rwhp. The stage 3 ECU makes 310rwhp at 14-15psi on stock turbos. So I think you're right, something was wrong before the turbos went on and I would like to fix it before I move up to a different management system. Not having ever run it on a dyno with a sniffer I just didn't know it had this problem. I wanted to run it on a dyno before I added these turbos but the dyno in town closed down before I got around to doing it.

spyfish007, I still have missing at off throttle cruise. But under throttle it pulls smoothly till 6000rpm and then you don't really feel or hear it missing it just stops making power. It should keep making power till 7500 before it runs out of breath. Thats why it looks like it's a fuel problem. And by the way I forgot the add the upgraded fuel pump to my list of mods.

Marshall

I snagged 351 with the stage 3 and stock turbos -but i was running a midpipe.

capt. bill1

Marshall, If you say so, can you post you'r dyno plot? Since stock fuel system is only good for about 360 flywheel HP so did you upgrade you'r pump and injectors?

Marshall

Yeah I have the Bosche pump, stock injectors. I can post the plot if someone can host it.

newRX7fan

iTrader: (1)

Marshall, have you had problems with fuel starvation after installing the Bosche pump? Like even in straight line acceleration? Mine was so bad I reinstalled the stock pump and might get the ND upgrade instead.

Marshall

newRX7fan,
Yes I have the exact same problem. I don't know how Wael made his work properly, but mine cuts off under about 1/2 tank if I even think about hitting full boost. I think I'm going to have to modify it or go with an RP upgrade or something.

alwan16

Marshall,

You can e-mail me the plot at alwan16@hotmail.com and I'll host it. I would like to see the dyno plot. Thanks.

alwan16

Marshall, were you running 14 or 15 psi of boost? What boost controller? Also, this is sequential from the looks of the graph right?

Marshall

Non sequential stockers, 14 lbs, stock port motor, all bolt -ons with M2 Stage III ECU and a Greddy Profec b. The 301 was with old sequential turbos, stock cat, and 11 lbs.

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Marshall,

Any chance of you joining us in some of the SE-RX7 events here in Atlanta?

Tim Benton

Marshall

Absolutely Tim, my car is under the knife right now for a T04 but hopefully I'll have in back together next weekend. I've seen Doug around several times, but I'd love to get together with everyone.

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Is Mazcare doing the T04 install? Just curious whose doing it. They did a great job on Doug's Apexi rx6 turbo kit.

Tim Benton