deFCon7

I am thinking about getting an FD RX-7 very soon. Possibly as soon as this weekend.

I have spent the last two weeks searching for possible cars in my area and have found three that greatly intrigue me. Two are '93's and one is a '95. Here is the basic run down on each. My questions are at the bottom after the background:

1) '93 w/ 120k on the body, 5k on a new engine installed by PFS, new brakes and a new clutch as of 5k miles ago. Asking price is $13k. I will be looking at it this weekend. I assume body will be in a bit of rough shape with that kind of mileage but if it as mechanically sound as it should be, this might be most viable with the lowest price (of the three) and a possibility of spending a few thousand on body work and a new paint job to still keep it under $15k.

2) '95 with 53k on the car, all original everything. The guy is asking $24k (about $9k above blue book) but the car appears to be mint but I will need to see it in person to verify. I know only about 400 '95's were made which is likely driving the price so high after 10 years, so that is intriguing to have a rare car like that with such low mileage. Likely my least favorite of the three however.

3) '93 R1 with 19k original miles. Looks to be in extremely good condition and asking price from a local "dealership" is $23,500. Also about $10k above blue book for that exact mileage and featured car. Dealership is www.midatlanticmotorwerkes.com and they specialize in "high-end" (read: European) cars and happen to have this car on the lot. Dealer mark up and low mileage are driving this price very high obviously, as is the fact that the rich people coming in to look at used Jags etc. likely have no care about the difference between $15k and $23k. I will go see it this weekend as well.

Of the three, I think the last is most appealing as it is super low mileage and I can likely get the price into the sub-$20k range hopefully. I really want a bone stock car to work with so I know so asshat didn't go out, mod it, overheat it and knock it to death.

I know to make sure of all three recalls being done, and also to make sure the AST is not leaking (or has been replaced/eliminated) and also to make sure it has a steady 10-8-10 pattern of boost. I also know to look for light throttle hesitation around 3k rpm, 5th gear synchro death, and basically all the little things all the buyers guides tell you to look for. I'll also obviously have compression tested on the one I ultimately decide to get before signing over the farm.


Now that I have given all the details: Which of the three is most appealing to you all? How much can I haggle off the price of the two $20k+ ones? Anything else I should look for while out and about test driving and poking and prodding these beautiful pieces of machinery? Should I pass each of these over in favor of something better and cheaper down the line? As Rotary gurus, I throw myself at your collective feet.

Any and all input is appreciated, (and I hope this question is in the right place, I'm new here and don't want to start on a horrible foot)

adam c

iTrader: (2)

No one can tell you which car to buy without seeing them all. My SUGGESTION would be to buy the nicest one you can afford. Less problems to deal with later.

Good luck

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

Just make sure you have an account with motor money readily available. We all know these are sports cars, and if an owner is about to sell a car, he/she usually rags the hell out of it the last few days. Sometimes they crank the boost, sometimes they dont. You can never tell what's been done those last few days. Just like what Mazda City tells me, when I need a new motor, just bring them the short block. It does not matter what was done to it (followed by a wink), they just need the short block as the core exchange.

The only thing i can personally reccomend, is to show up unannounced, and ask them to crank the car (make sure its a cold start), so that there is no time for the seals to expand. That way, if you see white smoke, then you know its one to pass on.

Also, if there is a Mazda dealership close, you can have the compression checked for about $70.00, which is a worthwhile investment if you are going to drop $20k-ish for a car. It only makes sense. That and a carfax, as in FL, there are tons of rebuilt title FD's. Another thing, is if you can hook up a temporary boost guage to check out the boost pattern.

Small things that could/will prevent larger problems in the future.

Also, this ones sorta stupid, but ask the owner what kind of gas they run, a lot of owners that don't know what they have, may say regular 87 octane. If that's the case, you can use it as a point to talk the price down, as the FD should only have premium or higher.

I hope you make a great purchase, and enjoy your car as much as we do...... well....Cept for Jimlab, he'll enjoy his eventually He prolly has less problems now with the car not running, than he did with the rotary in there

seafordguy

I bought a 94 R2 with 24K on it for 19500 and it was owned by an older couple and has never been in the rain a single time. That makes the second one a complete rip off. I know it is a 95 but my opinion would be that the build quality in 95 might be lower than in 94 because of the knowledge that the model was goign by the wayside. I know that is the case with some other cars I have noticed. The last one may be a good deal if you can get it down some. There are some gremlins with some of the early 93's so check the build date and do some research. As for the first one - you can't go wrong with Peter Farrell but with that many miles there is always some looming costs and problems you might run accross in the future. Of course you have pocketed a few thou over purchasing the newer ones. It all comes down to your "in person" feel for the cars. Just don't be too impatient and make an educated guess.

zmarko

I love when people bring up blue book with these cars.

Anyway, the 95 sounds nice, but is right at that "I'd be cautious" mileage. The first one sounds ok, but I'd rather not have to worry about paint and body work (just my opinion and comfort level). The last one, the '93 with 19K miles, I'd actually steer clear of. That's only 1400 miles a year, and maybe the previous owner(s) didn't start the car up often. Not saying that's what happened, but it's possible. Anyway, do what suits you best.


I've got a '93 R1 for sale with 102K on the chassis and 15K on a mazda reman that's lightly modded with a body in GREAT condition for $14.5K if that gives you an idea of what other cars are going for. Prices can also differ drastically in different regions. Good luck with the purchase.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

I can! It's easy if it's not my money.

Seriously though, it sounds like you've done your preliminary homework. Personally the one that appeals most to me is number 3, for the mileage and model, but also because you should be able to get the price down...if EVERYTHING checks out, boost pattern, synchro etc. With that few miles, the history of the car shouldn't be too tough to get too. Good luck.

Jim

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

If you can afford up to $24k there is no reason to consider the high mileage '93. And where can you get a repaint for a thousand or two? A decent high quality repaint is about $5k. And if the interior is worn, it is very hard (and expensive) to get it back into shape - much harder than the exterior of the car.

I wouldn't worry about smoke on startup - lots of FDs do this.

And as for 1995s being less reliable than 1994s because the FD was being discontinued - well this the first I have heard of this. It also makes no sense because FD production continued until much later - only the US market did not get them after 1995. 1995 are by far the most desirable FDs and command a price premium over other years.

I also would not buy from a dealer. You will not know the history of the car (beyond the usual dealer one-old-doctor-owner story) and will pay $5k+ more than you have to.

For a clean (and clean FDs are not all that common) sub-50k-mile FD you should not pay much above $16k. If your budget allows you spend up to $24k, that would leave $8k for toys. You can have a lot of fun spending $8k on an FD.

deFCon7

I am worried about how low the mileage is on the '93 and what residual damage there might be because it was never driven. I will make sure I look for all the warning signs when I go down to look at it. The fact that it is so low mileage makes me think it has the least opportunity for abuse, but also the most opportunity for age worn lines/hoses and little things that have rotted over time, which would likely cause me a major headache.

If the other '93 isn't in as bad shape as I think it will be, it might be the green light car for me, as I'm not sure how much I can talk a dealership down from $23,500. For me personally, body/paint work is less of a hassle now as long as I can avoid major engine work. I don't care about a weekend here and there to replace the vacuum lines with silicon ones, or replace some hoses. I just want the car to run well for a while while I'm paying it off.

Also, the comment about it being $9k above blue book...is that common? Should I expect that much markup? Or is that somethingthat is seen alot that the Rotary Community laughs at when people try to exploit the general public?

deFCon7

Thanks for all the input guys. Ideally I want a car in the $15k range and would be willing to drive a long way to get it, as long as I knew it was in good shape both cosmetically and mechanically. The first option is nice if I can make sure it's in great mechanical shape and it's in good enough cosmetic shape to please me.

zmarko, I'd even look hard at your car because the idea of $20k in loans is not too high on my list right now, but I can do it for sure.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

A lot of people on this board will tell you that the blue book does not apply to this car but this is hooey. FDs actually sell for pretty close to blue book on average. If a car is very nice, it may sell for a thousand or two more (and some very low mileage cars (~10k miles or so) may command a bigger premium).

I paid $16.4k for a mint 1993 R1 with 44k miles in the SF Bay Area (one of the higher priced car markets in the country) six months ago. With patience, you should be able to find what your are looking for around this price. Is see no reason to pay more unless you are in a big hurry.

deFCon7

Well I immediately assumed the stealership would mark the car up well above where they would sell it so I am hoping I can get them down into the mid teens. We shall see though once I go down and talk to them.

alberto_mg

I would NEVER buy an FD from a dealership. These cars are often problematic due to issues with the way the were (or were not) maintained. If I can't look the owner in the eye and understand how it was driven and maintained, I would never buy the car.

alberto_mg

I would NEVER buy an FD from a dealership. These cars are often problematic due to issues with the way the were (or were not) maintained. If I can't look the owner in the eye and understand how it was driven and maintained, I would never buy the car.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

It's likely it was a traded-in and the owner lives locally. If that's the case, the dealer should be able to provide the name and number. If not, I'd walk too.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Privacy laws in many (all?) states will not allow this.

itr_hybrid

I just spent a ton of time researching this during my own car hunt. Here is my advice...

Assuming the cars are stock...and manuals

The 95 is worth maybe 16-18K. That's it. For $20K+ you should be looking at under 25K miles.

Your best bet is the 93 with very low miles. I would personally pay $20K for an ultra mint, ultra low mile car. For $20K, you should expect a showroom condition car...not a hint of rust above or below the car, etc.

- Phillip

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

I understand, and that would certainly apply if he just called the previous owner "cold". Should have phrased it better. But all the dealership has to do call them first and ask if it's alright. I've done this several times (including my FD) and it's never been a problem.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Well I'm from near your area, and I understand there isn't a huge selection of good FDs to pick from. Many sellers here seem to have ridiculous asking prices.

I personally wanted an R2 in the best condition and mileage I could afford (about 20k). I bought for 19k a 94R2 with 51k and a reasonably new motor. Mechanically it was in great shape, the compression was even 8.0-8.5s. IMO, that may have been reasonable for this car if it were in outstanding condition.

Unfortunately, I've concluded it was not. After seeing many more FDs (the one I bought was only the 3rd I tested), and looking at mine much more closely, I found a large dent that I wasn't even aware of (since there were no creases it's not visible until you look for it, but it's there), many paint chips, and many botched touch-up attempts that were worse than the original chip. The very inner edge of the tires was worn to the cord - the seller had flipped them around to hide the bad edges. I also found the paint was more faded than I had realized, and the interior could have been much better. It turns out a previous owner (before the guy I bought it from) was an avid autocrosser who, although took good care of it, also put some very tough miles on the car. So it's a lot older and more worn than many of similar mileage. I wish I had passed on it, seen more cars, and educated my eye more. I think I paid at least 4k too much. Had I shopped more carefully, and been willing to travel (and spend a few hundred $$ to see a couple more cars), I could have had a better car for much less total money. I know that luck is simply part of getting a great deal, but with patience I could have had a much better car for that price.

What I'm getting to is this: look at all three, don't rush to buy, and also go see a few extra cars. FDs won't feel quite so 'wow' when you test drive them, so you won't be blinded from the details as much. When you find the right deal, you'll KNOW it.

Out of those three cars, I would pay:
1) 12k
2) 19k-20k if it really is perfect. Add 2k if white
3) 19k if it is in perfect shape. Add 2k if CYM.

Subtract 3k if any are automatic. I imagine you're not considering autos though.

Dave

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Assuming the '93 and '95 are both in good shape and have similar mileage, I'd get the '95. There were a few minor fixes and updates after the first model year, including interior plastic, exterior paint, and a minor cooling system fix. Better to have them than not have them.


Check the color of the oil on the dipstick, and the coolant level also. If either of these look bad, it's a good sign that the car hasn't been taken care of well. It's likely that the dealership cars will have a fresh oil change and detailed engine bay, so don't let that be a deciding factor.


The '93 R1 in Competition Yellow Mica is a very rare color, it would be worth some extra money to many people. The white doesn't hold a special place in my opinion; it's too plain a color for these cars.

-s-

deFCon7

Ok I looked at the cars over the weekend.

The '93 with 120k on the body smokes on start for a while, and has erratic boost patterns and is generally a car that has obviously been driven hard. No dice on that.

The '93 with 19k miles is GORGEOUS. I can't stress this enough. Absolutely gorgeous. It has just a hint of a puff of smoke on start up (although unfortunately it's wasn't a perfectly cold start that I tested since the engine bay was a bit warm when I checked the coolant level, so it had been started that morning sometime), has a perfect 10-8-10 boost pattern. It had no grinding of the 5th gear synchro and idled like a champ.

The owner consigned this car to this small local dealership and they are listing and selling it for him, so he has final say on price. I am thinking it will fall in at $20k to purchase this car. It has an aftermarket downpipe and cat back, underdrive pulleys, boost gauge, PFS intake, drag radials with 500 miles on them, and that's about it. I am likely going to buy it this coming weekend, if I can get it for $20k.

Before I do that though, I will try to get the owner's contact info so I can talk to him directly, and get every service record, recall record, and a list of exact modifications done to the car. I also will need to make sure they can do a compression test for me to make sure then engine is in good shape. In finality, I want the sale to be contingent on my ability to get it tagged, titled, inspected and insured in MD since I am buying it in VA. If it is too modified to pass inspection, I want to be able to get my money back.


I know I may be paying a huge premium for this car relative to what I could get a similar condition FD for, but as I see it, a car with this little wear on it, is exactly what I want. Stock-ish car that I can get in and drive for another 30k miles on weekends and for my ten mile commute to work some days.

Any additional thoughts or anything else you all can think of that I should look for?

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Borrow the coolant pressure tester from Autozone and see how the system holds pressure. Then, get a compression test.

Dave

zmarko

Good luck with it if you get it! And post up some pics when you do.