BuiltForBoost

I've been building up hybrid civic's for a while now and I'm looking move to a FD. Mainly for the looks, RWD, and stock turbos. I'm not a big fan the the less than perfect reliablity on them, especially compared to a honda, but I do baby my cars so I should be ok.

I'm expecting to buy a FD and almost immiedeatly replace the motor. I'm still not sure about where to get the crate motor. It seems most people get a mazda reman, are these good enough to throw in as is and expext a decent amount of performance/ reliability from? Or, do you need to tear the reman down and build it up? Also, if you get a mazda reman and treat it well how long of a life is typical and is it strong enough to daily drive?

Any help would be great!

-Kevin

Cypher

The first thing you should do is read:

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/reliability.html

These are the things that should be done to the RX7 engine to make it reliable. Now obviously if you buy a car which has been abused, then you will need to replace the engine fairly quickly.

On the other hand, if you find a car that has been taken care of, then you might not to deal with that yet, but doing the reliability mods that haven't been done yet will extend the life of the engine.

People do indeed get Reman's, some rebuild their current engine if it isn't too badly damaged, yet another group of people buy brand new Mazda engines..

There are many places online that have motors for sell in intact form. I have no idea as to how much work is involved in putting this stuff in. But seieng as it IS a RX7 engine going into an RX7 engine, I would think it not to be too bad..

Ohh..also do a few searches to learn more about this..

BuiltForBoost

Thanks for the reply.

I've seen Mazda reman's for around 1500-2000 bucks, how much is a new motor? I'd think that would cost way too much.

More specificly, if I do the reliability mods to a mazda reman and take care of it, am I looking at a motor that can take daily driving and a decent amount of abuse from me @ 12-13 psi.

Thanks!

-Kevin

Cypher

I think the new engines run about $3500-$4500 or so..which is why most people go with Reman's..

I think if you do the relaibility mods and also do a few mods, you will definitely be able to daily drive and beat the crap out of the car @ 12-13 psi and have it take it..

Stock, the FD will top 10 psi. Put an intake, downpipe, midpipe(or high-flow cat) and cat-back and you can easily be at 13-14 psi with boost spikes and creep..so you port the wastegate and add a boost controller to keep things in check and @ 10 psi..

Or you just go with a new ECU and consistently do 12-13 psi..

rx7beginner

The thing that scares me the most is you are chosing between a Hybrid Civic and a FD. On one side u have something that gets 70mpg and 0-60 in like 12 sec. Then you have the FD 12 mpg and 4.9 0-60. These are totally two differant cars. Please look into the FD a lil more and get some experience behind the wheel.

Cypher

They indeed are two different cars, the RX7 happens to be my first sports car, my first rear-wheel drive car, my first car with turbo's on it ..and so on and so forth..and I also own a Passat which I've been mucking around with since I bought it..and I haven't blown up my FD yet making the mods I have so far..

Do not make assumptions about the poeple that are choosing to buy FD's...telling them to learn about the cars as BuiltForBoost is doing is the right thing. The fact that they've been playing with a Civic and are now trying to get into an RX7 has no bearing on their abilities or knowledge about cars and their "experience behind the wheel"..

rajeevx7

iTrader: (11)

yeah guys, dont flame the man....at least he is finally realizing that hondas are the ***** that girls get in highschool! and movin up to a real mans game....tha fd3s

ConfusedPerson

Hell yes... Amen! buuutttt i can kinda see where he is coming from.Honda cars are usualy driven by people who just started racing and are a bit ignorant to what speed really is.LIKE getting a tiny little engine hitting it with 400000 shot of nitro and running 100x5 psi and realy believing there engine will handle it because of the all mighty VTEC witch they probably dont even know what it stands for or does....so i can see his point of view.

BuiltForBoost

rx7beginner: I think you are confusing hybird civic with that half electric car. What any performance related hybrid civic means is a motor swap. I have a JDM DOHC VTEC 1.6, NA, modded to about 220hp in a 2060lb civic hatch. This is a much different car. =)

rajeevx7, ConfusedPerson:

These are the stupidest replies I have ever heard. Please look into the car you are blindly bashing before opening your mouth. There are idiots with mazda's hondas, fords, chevy's, etc. Any car sucks in the wrong hands. I'm a performance nut, not some retard with altezza lights.

My current civic does 0-60 in 5 flat and runs high 12's, and tears *** at thunderhill, all while being naturally asperated, extremely reliable and getting 30mpg. I can drive 2 hours to the road course, beat the **** out of it all day in 100degree weather, and drive home with no problems. This is something that FD's can have serious issues doing if in the wrong hands. I wouldn't doubt that people like you cause the FD's bad reputation for reliability.

Please keep your "highly informative" opinion to yourself.

Everybody else:

Thanks for the info! I was geting confused as to why some motors are 1500-2000 and others 3500+. Thanks for clearing that up. I hope i can hear from more people like yourself! it can be such a pain to get good info off a forum sometimes, but once you find the right people you can learn so much.

Thanks again!

-Kevin

BuiltForBoost

One more thing, Do people have good luck with the mazda reman? Can anybody who's installed and ran a reman vs a new crate motor give some insight?

I understand it is a rebuilt motor so I'm not sure how tight they run their clearences and what types of things they consider "to spec." I don't want to find out the hard way a warped rotor housing is normal in mazda's eyes when it comes to reman's.

Thanks,

-Kevin

Cypher

I don't have any personal experience with a Reman or new motor. But, when I bought my car a new engine had been put into it about 15k back. I think most people who can afford the price of a new motor will go for it, for the fact that it is new.

By the same token, if you get a Reman motor and/or rebuild and get it done by a reliable shop..I suppose you might be saving money on that route..

Sorry I don't have anything actual insight on this..

RX7Elmo

BuiltforBoost, is your civic hatch black? and is it the um...95 model? Just curious. I saw one at thunderhill with me, andn it was catching up fast, then past me. I was extremely confused because i ddn't think a stock motor civic could pass me up like that. Turns out it was a hybrid, not sure if it's yours. Also, i was driving an MR2 Supercharged...


Also, i asked this question maybe twice now on various threads, but no answers. Has anyone rebuilt a 13B by themselves? and how involved is it? i assume it's easier than a piston engine. Because if it isn't 'that' hard, i dont' see why we just don't do it ourselves than give it to mazda to rebuild

Danny

BuiltForBoost

Yes, I do drive a black 95 model hatch, but there are alot of us out there! I personally havent been able to get to the track for a while due to school... its killing me!

I rebuilt my B16a for my honda and I've had no problems in 2 years of tracking it and running 8400rpm all the time. I'm not as cozy with the idea of building up a rotary as they seem to need alot of special attention that only a rotary specialist can give.

I'm still trying to figure out how good of a job mazda does with its reman motors as far as reliabilitly under boost and hard driving, but while still taking care of it and not being stupid.

-Kevin

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

Choosing b/w rotary and pistons?

I was a mechanical engineer who believes in the adage: of Keep It Simple, Stupid. You look at all that reciprocating mass, valves, springs, cams, belts versus the twin triangles, apex, side seals and crank and make up your mind.

Yeah, the engine doesn't last 100K but who cares? you're driving a hi-perf vehicle so engines are preventive maintainence.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I bought a reman from Malloy Mazda in VA, and when Dave at KD Rotary tore it down to port it, the rotors and housings were brand new. I essentially had bought a brand new motor for under 2 grand. Dave told me he wasn't surprised; that was the 12th motor in a row from Malloy that he had torn down that was like that. I don't have their phone # on me offhand; I'm sure someone else on the forum has it.

One more thing--you're making a good choice. The 3rd Gen Rx7 is simply amazing. Every time I utterly destroy a C5 or 911 on the highway, I have a huge ****-eating grin on my face

Also, I have a CRX si as a daily driver; I'd strongly recommend keeping the civic as one....

BuiltForBoost

Goodfella: I was thinking about parting out my car's motor and suspension setup that is good for about 5k and throw in a sohc pos and keep it for a backup / commuter car. It seems the best considering all the rotary issues that do seem to come up.

I'll be looking into the malloy mazda, but does each dealer do the rebuild or do they just order it from a mazda plant? I'm in the bay area in CA and I rather not pay too much for shipping.

Also, why did you tear down the reman? Just to mod it?

-Kevin

Nathan Kwok

If you really want to build up a reliable engine then it'll cost money. You'll want silicone impregnated coolant O-rings, ported coolant and oil passages, ceramic apex seals, and all new parts. That'll cost big big bucks though, probably $6000. From there if you want to make a track car the most reliable is a small single turbo running low (13-14psi) boost, fuel, good SMIC, big radiator, big oil coolers, water injection can't hurt, open exhaust, and most of all a WELL TUNED ecu. This is key. Not just tuned after 4000rpm. Not just tuned for WOT, tuned everywhere. Partial throttle, full throttle, low load, high load, low rpm, high rpm, everywhere. Then after all is said and done you're about $10k-$15k poorer. If you're willing to take it down a few notches a reman and your basic reliablity mods and bolt-ons should be just fine. Stock twins can make 300HP and still be very reliable. Run 10psi and get HP from elsewhere and the turbos will last longer, no doubt boost shortens engine and turbo life. Good luck .

BuiltForBoost

I thought 10psi was stock? Do you mean a constant 10 and not a fluctuating boost pattern? Also, what other than a nice exaust / intake and a tuned ecu do you mean when you say get power elsewhere?

I'm not looking for un-godly amounts of power, but I would like to see the car deep in the 12's without overdoing it.

-Kevin

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

Kevin, FWIW, motors are ordered from the Mazda Reman plant in Clay county, Florida (Orange Park). The were originally manufactured in CA, but the plant made a move.

10psi is what the stock twins put out running properly, you can up the boost, but from what ive heard, the stock twins at any higher boost levels make an ungodly amount of heat, and im not exactly "rich" so i dont waznna mess with anything that i dont need to. There are people on the forum that run 18-20 psi and what not, but their cars are either dedicated track cars, or they can afford new motors every few months.

As Nathan Kwok said, to get an FD to run at its full potential, its gunna cost a pretty penny.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

power elsewhere would basically mean: open exhaust, intake, tuned ecu/stand alone, fmic, pulleys, porting (big plus), and probably upping the boost some. those are the only things i can think of off the top of my bald head.

Cypher, i wasnt aware that "new" motors can be had. If so, how much do they run/where can i get them? From all of my knowledge, remans are the only motors avail from Mazda. In essense, you can take a reman, and put new housings, rotors, etc, and it is a new motor, so maybe im just being **** about it??

rx7beginner

Its immature ppl like this that give FD owners a bad name, not just you but i seen plenty others. Why the F would an FD give u girls? Yea if your type are ******. I'm 18 and I admit I sleep with womens I don't deserve and none of that has to do with the car I drive. An FD is nothing more but original masterpiece. Please don't take it for anything more than it is.

ConfusedPerson

rajeevx7, ConfusedPerson:

Hit i nerve did i?chhiiillll.What you are saying is totaly true.Yes there are some AMAZING crx's out there with amazing drivers.BUT. I dont see many ******* moron drivers behind the wheel of an NSX FD SUPRA 300ZX (big boy cars) you USUALY see those crazy beotches behind the wheel of a beat up honda civ.See to many guys blowin there **** up not to say it.any car can befast.Hell a old *** camry cant run 5's with the right mods and driver.

JonesersRX7

I'm sure you rated high.....

And finally... do not even say that some one needs to learn this car when you post something like this

I would not normally do this but I was annoyed with your posts.

- Eric

rx7beginner

Damn, you coulda pick up about two girls instead of doing a background check on me. If you notice I have really "grown" since I got into the car scene in the last several months. The last post was not pointed at you but the horny teenagers that thinks an FD will pick up girls like flies on ****. Sorry but I'm not the type that looks for womens with no self esteem in order to get *****. I don't cruise around and explore the street corners. I'm sure if those womens were FD's their oil would be change every 10 miles.

SpeedyRotary

Hey what ever floats your boat ya know... I mean FDs and ***** are two different subjects and they both are real good things.. Both of which, truthfully, I would love to have anytime of the day at any hour..don't flame me..thanks