_Drag'nGT_

First let me say hey to everyone who is on here.

I'm a senior member at newcelica.org and realize what it's like to be a noob to a forum or car that you don't know much about.

A friend of mine from NC.org is a member here on the forum, ArchangelX. He's been helping me with my upcoming decision to purchase either a Toyota Supra or a Mazda Rx7.

I've already read "How to buy a Rx7" from Rob Robinette's site. It was very helpful. I've read alot about the car and what has to be done in order to maintain it. Is it really as big a pain in the *** as it seems? It's like if you change just one simple thing, or a grouping of things, you have to re-program the whole ECU.

It almost seems that your first mod should be a programable ECU followed by a Non-sequential conversion, and replacement of allmost all the main components of the car. Including but not limited to.... fuel pump, ignition system, wastegate, boost gauge, exhaust system, intake, and the cooling system. Some of those are performance mods but help keep the engine cooled off. Which is good.

What makes this car so damn picky about what you do to it?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

okay ... well, first of all, welcome!

i guess this means you're looking at the Gen III cars (also called: FD, 3rd Gen) ... well, to be honest, i don't know much about living with one.

however, my advice to you would be read, read, and then READ some more. peruse the Gen III section and see what seems to work and what doesn't.

my guess is that you're not planning to keep it stock, in which case ... regardless of what anyone else says ... i'd start with the cooling system before i touched anything else. i think a lot of the horror stories you hear (and eventually become the "Rx-7 lore") is based on people that try to go for the brass ring. meaning, they try to increase HP and place the cooling of the engine into the secondary status (with brakes and other things that don't give you MORE power/speed).

the one thing that i will say before i stop giving you my opinion on why they're so "picky", as you said, is that the one thing you can NEVER let a rotary do, is get too hot, too fast - in fact, try not to let it get too hot at all.

however, as i said, read and try to get more solid facts. check the Gen III forum ...

_Drag'nGT_

If I posted this in the Gen 3 forum would I get in trouble for double posting? I bitch at noobs on NC.org for double posting things that don't need to be double posted. I'm a flamer.

I'm reading some of these post and you guys are really cool. You seem to be more than willing to help people out. I haven't got any idea as to which car I will be getting. But it will be a Supra or Rx7. I know alot about the Supra. But it's way over priced. Unless I find one at a really good deal I probably won't buy one. The two bonus' to the Supra will be that alot of my friends can help me out with questions and that my dad and I can work on it. I won't be able to do very much work on the Rx7.

My fear is that I'll be spending alot of money to fix the FD that I buy rather than modifying it to make more power. Therefore I'm thinking that I should buy a VERY used Rx7 for cheap or buy a very low milage one like this. Silver Rx7

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

honestly, i can't say that i know if you'll get flamed or not. i don't hang out there much. i'm mostly in this forum or the Gen I forum. however, based on the thread count for the Gen III room, i'd think that whatever you're looking for in terms of "living with an Rx-7" should have been covered pretty extensively.

i think the search function is down now, but when it comes back up, give it a shot. if you don't find what you need, then just post this there and see what it fetches ...

Shinobi-X

Welcome to the club!

Well, I myself was recently in a similar postion to yours. I was trying to decide between purchasing a Supra or a 7. The Supra proved to be too expensive, plus the 7 edged it out in the looks and uniqueness department with it's rotary engine. Aside from a few other things the 7 had that the supra didn't, I did a LOT of reading about the 7, and of course saw all of the horror stories. I took an honest look at them and realized that yes, there would be bad times, but overall, if you pay attention to what you are doing, and take the time to LEARN/UNDERSTAND the car, you will be okay. I had to remember that mazda didn't make a bad car, it was mostly the user that didn't know how to care for it, as with most instances. Remember too, that others have been there before, so you can ask questions in order to avoid making the same mistakes.

Attention to the cooling system on FDs is very important, and whether you spend the money sooner or later, at some point, in any suped up car, money will have to be spent on keeping the engine running under good conditions. Many of these mods for reliability also add power, or at the very least cosmetic appeal. So it's not like your wasting money on fixing things, your just upgrading.

As for the ECU, there are specific points at which you should do the modification, and it depends on your car and it's setup. It's not bad so long as you get the information for what you are doing. We have an entire section dedicated to this, so you can check their for help. You don't HAVE to go non-sequential, as many members like the factory sequential setup. The non-sequential setup is more simple though, and I've also seen many members do this. It's all a matter of preference. As for the other upgrades, you do these according to how much power you want, and what kind of car it will end up being; autoX, drag racer, etc.

Needless to say, the car does need special attention, but it's all worth it in the end. I have my fair share of work to do on my car (just got it after an 11 month search), but I'm damn glad I got it, and wouldn't change a thing. They are great cars, and as long as you take care of them, they will take care of you. The members on these forums can help you with any questions you have, and many of them can also help you do work in your area. "The more FD's we keep on the road the better" is the attitude. Network, and you'll be taken care of.

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

also be warned, if you take the red pill, you will leave never never land and see just how far the rabbit hole goes.............

Merciless

I'll move this to the 3rd gen

_Drag'nGT_

Thanks Shinobi-X. Luckily I live close to Atlanta and can get help from alot of the guys and shops that are there.

I either want to buy a VERY low milage FD or buy a really beat up one and put it all back together with everything fixed and upgraded. I don't know what will happen in the next few months that i research and look for a good deal. I just hope I stumble across a good deal.

7sweetie

my advice to you is if you have the money, then get the fd, they are one of a kind and you wont be able to find all the qualities the fd has in another car for that price, it just wont happen. have you test drove one yet? if you havent, just go take one out, and see how it feels, cause im telling you it feels perfect. with all that said, they are pains in the *** sometimes, and act up, but its well WELL worth it. just as long as you know your **** and baby her and take very good care, you'll be fine.

Nameless

Getting an ECU first isnt a bad thing to do, but if you have a stock car to start with its not really needed. But i'd go DP first. Non-seq isnt for everybody, so if you do it, do the poor-man's version so it's reversible. There are lots of informative posts on how to go about modding your 7.

Anyway keep your cooling in tip-top shape (radiator, AST, coolant hoses), do the vac-hose job, and as you mod the car upgrade the ECU when the time comes.

One last thing, dont enter the world of the FD if you think that just because you did the "reliability mods" that the FD will treat you right. You can see all over the forum that **** happens. Just a warning... so after all that if u still want an FD, your a certified masochist - Welcome to the club!

Shinobi-X

Sounds good. If you have a trustworthy shop nearby, as well as friends who can help, your in the right environment. Your own mechanical skills shouldn't hurt either...oh, and the forums are here too. (Just stay away from the lounge. )

Either sounds good. With a low mileage one(assuming it's also stock), it's easier to diagnose anything that goes wrong. The thing is, I really wouldn't want to upgrade perfectly working parts, instead, I would wait for them to wear out, then upgrade. If you have patience/money though, a low mileage one sounds really good.

I went with one that was a little beat, but it came with the mods in my sig below. The engine was fine as well as the other internals, suspension is in good shape, and it has some of the reliability mods done, but it mostly needed cosmetic work. The cosmetic stuff kept the price down, and I will be doing that work after winter once all the salt/ice is gone. The turbos also needed work, but they will be rebuilt/upgraded in the same process anyway, because I will be building the car to make more power. Aside from that, I start on the usual path of finishing reliability and then heading on to the bolt-on power mods.

93BlackFD

how close in atlanta? what do you drive now?

i'm from atlanta

_Drag'nGT_

I'm in Macon. I'll be in Atlanta this Sunday actually.

I see alot of you guys know your stuff but there seems to be alot of bad **** happening to the guys who "know their ****."

Most of my friends have Supras. So if I bought a Supra they could give me more help.

But I'm realizing that the car isn't as bad as I thought it was. It seams to me that heat is what breaks this car. Correct? Would I be wrong to hope that I could push 400-500hp outta this thing and it not break on me as long as I keep it cool?

I can't seem to ask what I want to ask without sounding un-informed. And I've used the "Search" button. So don't say that when I ask this.....
Has anyone made a mod list that will allmost make a 3rd gen Rx7 bullet proof?

I turn 20 this month. I'm not ball'n by any means. I can't have fun and mod this car if I have to keep 3 grand a year in my bank account incase this thing blows. I can't worry that my intake makes me run too rich or lean.

Kiflin

You can take a fd well beyond 400-500hp if you have the money...

Welcome to the forums.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

My fear is that I'll be spending alot of money to fix the FD that I buy rather than modifying it to make more power. Therefore I'm thinking that I should buy a VERY used Rx7 for cheap or buy a very low milage one like this. Silver Rx7 [/B][/QUOTE]


Yes, you do have to be more methodical with these cars than others, and everything is related.

BUT,
Many bolt on mods actually increase power AND longevity. Heat is the #1 enemy of these cars, and even the best setups are often a compromise... but thing like a better intercooler, downpipe, and a less restrictive cold air intake help make more power while relieving your engine compartment of heat and/or let the tubos work less hard (resulting in less heat).

I believe that if you are careful, diligent and mod in the right order, the reliability isn't as bad as its rumored to be... alot of these cars have gotten in to the hand of folks who don't listen to reason.

ZeroBanger

It depends on what you want to do with the car. Regardless of any of the **** you are going to hear on this forum, most of it is just that ****. There are some very knowledgeable people on this forum, but very few have ANY evidence to back up any claim they made. We hear every day that you need to get a new ECU of you do any air mods ...or if you do 3 mods. Just for reference the 3 mod rule is crap. I have seen RX7's on the dyno that hadcatback's, dp, etc, they run rich, very rich without a new ECU..

This is a very special car that requires somewhat special attention, but its not the bitch that everyone says it is. let me make life simple for you. Read as much as you can on this forum. This forum is INVALUABLE and you can learn alot. Unfortunately the forum has alot of mis-information too. The bottom line is that nobody wants to spend the time or the money to test these theory's so it ends up being speculation. Nobody on this forum can ever give 1 shred of proof that an ECU is required when begin to mod the car. Lets take a look at why you need an ECU. the only reason is for fuel reasons. Well guess what? You can get a boost controller relatively cheap and keep it at 10 PSI and you mod the hell out of your car. Actually you can do ANYTHING to you car (except additional injectors or single turbo) without the need of an aftermarket ecu, nobody can prove me wrong.

next, lets look at the fuel issue. On one hand you have a group that says the stock injectors are good for 360 rwhp, others say 12 lbs boost max. You have one group that says the injectors will max out and fail BEFORE the fuel pump ever will. Others say you need to upgrade the fuel pump to get the max benefit of the injectors (even stock). I say thats a bunch of crap too. Unless you are putting greater than 310 HP to the wheels you don't need new injectors/fuel pump.

Now lets take alook at the mid pipe issue...everyone told me that fuel smell will be unbearable and so will the noise. They said I will spike and EVERYONE says you WILL get boost creep without a boost controller unless you get a ported waste-gate. Guess what? My midpipe spikes (so did my highflow cat) none of the other issues came to bear. Sure its loud, but from inside the car its not that noticeable (outside the car is). The fuel smell is hardly and issue, sometimes idling you smell it, most of the time you don't. Boost creep? What a joke. My after my transition spike it holds to the redline with what I set my power FC too.

now lets tackle the idea of "Reliablilty Mods". I replaced my stock radiator with a KOYO. My stock radiator had 140K miles at the time, while it had not problems I wanted the largest radiator I can get. I have had so many problems with things not fitting, radiator fans dying, intercoolers not fitting corretly, etc cause of the size of the radiator. To do it over again, I may have left it stock. I guess I don't have to worry about the plastic endtanks breaking on the koyo though. Ok, so now we are at the downpipe. I think this is a great and inexpensive mod. After you get alot of miles on your car, your precat may get clogged, the downpipe never will. For what its worth, my precat had 133K when I replaced it and was not clogged.

So back to the orignal point of my post, it depends what you want to do with the car. If you want to race it and get max HP, yes you need to replace all the things you mentioned, Injectors, fuelpump, ecu, downpipe, cat, catback, intake, etc. But if you are just looking for reliability, you need only do a few. The plastic AST does tend to break and in my opinion is the most important. But again, half the people on this forum say to eliminate it. Yet the rest of us wonder why it is that mazda put the damn thing on the 787B AND on the RX7 when they tried to keep the weight and cost down on the car. Of the ones that want to replace it with a metal one, someone brain surgeon theorizes that the shape is like a coke can and not square like the stock one, so there is no practicle purpose for the metal one other than it will not break like the plastic one. This is a vicious circle with no end in site. What you are left with is nothing but speculation and very little facts to back any of this up. If you want the car for a daily driver its easy, I use mine every day, its my only car. Just do the few reliablilty mods I mentioned and you will be fine. If you want to use it as a daily driver or goto the track like I do, then do the other upgrades too, its costly but you get a great fun car.

_Drag'nGT_

So if I get more hp out of the car I will shorten the dependability of the car? I know that any type of high hp on ANY car will shorten the dependability some. But on this one it will greatly shorten it???

ZeroBanger

What I am saying is if you want to run more than the 10-11 lbs that the stock ECU will allow you have to replace the ECU. I had a highflow cat and the rest of the exhaust and ECU and found my injectors hitting 92 pct.

At some point you risk running leaning and poping your engine. You can only mod your car so much before having to do some of those upgrades. Especially if you want to get power out of the car. You can only get so much HP on 10 lbs of boost. Get yourself an ecu like the power FC (it allows you to control boost as well as being an ECU) that will help you alot.

If you plan on keeping the stock ECU just don't go over 10 lbs boost and you are fine.

RX7SpiritR

iTrader: (1)

Welcome dude! =)