KG Diff Brace or Banzai??
12-05-07, 11:41 AM
#1
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KG Diff Brace or Banzai??
Hey guys,
I have done some reading on both of these. Seems to me like they are both good products, however the KG brace doesnt seem to have a lot of room for an exhaust...
People also noted that a diff brace will increase drivetrain noise. How much noise can i expect??
Anyways, i was hoping you guys could give me some good opinions before i spent the money.
=Ben
I have done some reading on both of these. Seems to me like they are both good products, however the KG brace doesnt seem to have a lot of room for an exhaust...
People also noted that a diff brace will increase drivetrain noise. How much noise can i expect??
Anyways, i was hoping you guys could give me some good opinions before i spent the money.
=Ben
12-05-07, 01:02 PM
#5
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Ah, thank you.
Hmm, i wonder if that is overkill for my purposes. I dont plan on launching the car, it may see a few track days, but not many.
Can you guys estimate on the additional drivetrain noise when running any of these braces? Is the additional noise (vibration transfer) comming from this new non dampened connection from the diff to the chassis?
I am just trying to weight out the pros and cons of each, but its hard when you dont really know all of the variables.
Thanks for the info fellas.
=Ben
Hmm, i wonder if that is overkill for my purposes. I dont plan on launching the car, it may see a few track days, but not many.
Can you guys estimate on the additional drivetrain noise when running any of these braces? Is the additional noise (vibration transfer) comming from this new non dampened connection from the diff to the chassis?
I am just trying to weight out the pros and cons of each, but its hard when you dont really know all of the variables.
Thanks for the info fellas.
=Ben
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12-05-07, 08:27 PM
#9
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12-05-07, 08:53 PM
#10
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You should ask this question to somebody that actually races their car, not drives down the interstate. The Banzai is total junk. Looks more like spagetti noodle invention than a brace. The KG brace is decent for the price. It you want something thats proven, then get the PFS girdle. I just went to the track 3 weeks ago. It was 35degrees out. I got the worst wheel hop of my life. ANY other time, my diff case would have been in pieces. It was fine. This same girdle has seen 8second passes from Sauatari, 9sec passes from Peter, and multiple 9 sec. passes from Ray. And multiple low 10 sec passes from me with alot of abuse from me, lol...If I come off harsh, I appoligize, but I get pissed when people start running their mouths when they don't know what they are talking about. As for drivetrain noise, you won't get any from the KG brace or the PFS girdle.
12-05-07, 09:59 PM
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Usually when someone asks a question like this everyone supports their own shops product. Truthfully from my experience with the banzai diff brace, I went to the dragstrip and had to much wheel hop in 1st and 2nd to get any type of launch. After installation I had little to no wheel hop, I would still get some every once in a while, but my suspension is all stock. If you plan on doing some 8 second passes like ernie was talking about then maybe you will need more, but for high 9's or above this will pry do the trick. I don't think any of the diff braces will give you drivetrain noise, I think your confusing that part with a transmission brace. Hope this helps.
12-05-07, 10:31 PM
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You should ask this question to somebody that actually races their car, not drives down the interstate. The Banzai is total junk. Looks more like spagetti noodle invention than a brace. The KG brace is decent for the price. It you want something thats proven, then get the PFS girdle. I just went to the track 3 weeks ago. It was 35degrees out. I got the worst wheel hop of my life. ANY other time, my diff case would have been in pieces. It was fine. This same girdle has seen 8second passes from Sauatari, 9sec passes from Peter, and multiple 9 sec. passes from Ray. And multiple low 10 sec passes from me with alot of abuse from me, lol...If I come off harsh, I appoligize, but I get pissed when people start running their mouths when they don't know what they are talking about. As for drivetrain noise, you won't get any from the KG brace or the PFS girdle.
having one does not mean u wont get wheel hop. also in my experience and friends experience we get humming from the drivetrain.
also the girdle ur recommending, it serves a totaly diff purpose? to keep diff from cracking, reinforces the diff?... not to help prevent wheel hop like the brace.
12-05-07, 11:05 PM
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You guys are missing the purpose of a brace/girdle. It DOES NOT aid or hinder wheel hop. All it does it support your diff from flexing and cracking. Toe links and trailing arms will help prevent wheel hop and keep your wheels from toeing out when launching. Thats why its called a "launch kit". And yes the noodle mess is junk, lol...Do what you guys want. Im just trying to give you advise from PERSONAL experience, not from what so and so said.
12-05-07, 11:13 PM
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I was taking it from my own personal experience. It helped out with my wheel hop quite a bit.
If you're "giving advice from personal experience," then you must have used the banzai brace?
Or are you just guessing that there product is "total junk"?
If you're "giving advice from personal experience," then you must have used the banzai brace?
Or are you just guessing that there product is "total junk"?
12-06-07, 05:24 AM
#18
Banzai Racing
I do not know why Ernie has such a hard-on for our brace, whenever he talks about it he brings up food (pretzels, spagetti, noodles, etc..). He and a couple of his pals decided they didn't like it because PFS sells a "brace", which means that there is no way it can work and that no one else should like it either. The fact that he states that he is speaking from personal experience is a joke, considering he has never seen one of our braces in person, let alone driven a car before and after installation.
The facts are that our brace was not designed as a diff girdle. A girdle is good for super hard launches with super sticky tires, to keep the diff housing from cracking. For the the other 99.9% of the not so "serious" drag racers the PFS girdle serves no function at all besides draining their wallet of $350 and adding a bunch of weight to the car. It does absolutely nothing to limit drivetrain movement, as it does not attach to the actual car anywhere only to the diff housing.
When I broke my PPF and Torsen I was running upgraded suspension, toe links, trailing arms, etc ( launch kit if you will) and still got insane wheel hop, which of course transfers huge shock waves into the drivetrain. This in turn shattered the spider gears in my diff. After changing to a Kaaz and installing upgraded diff bushings, I still got hop, causing the PPF to fracture. After installing our brace, all wheel hop was gone, it certainly was nice not to have my dash ***** falling off anymore.
Lets face it the RX-7 is not the best straight line car. If I were as serious a drag racer as Ernie claims to be, then I would have dumped my money into a Mustang/Camaro/whatever or at least a four link rear.
However for autocross & road course the RX-7 is fantastic. This is where the majority of the racing for these cars is done (legally), it also is where the PFS girdle has absolutely no effect on anything at all. I have never heard of anyone ever cracking their diff open at an autocross event while pulling hard out of a corner. It is however very important to limit drivetrain movement, this is where our polyurethane mounts and diff brace come into play. By cutting down on movement (slop) more power is being transfered to the gound. It gives you a much more predictable car, that is much more fun to drive.
As far as the design goes, I am not a fan of the T-style braces, they allow for to much bouncing of the diff. They do stiffen things up some, but not to the extent that ours does. Ours mounts directly in front of the diff, not 2 feet away. However I am not going to tell people not to buy it because it is junk, it serves a purpose and it is nice to have options. It does have fitment issues though, you cannot install a 4" exhaust without modification to it.
So, the end all and be all is that we designed our brace for the other 99.9% of the street driven, Autocrossed and road course cars ranging from 200-600hp with the occasional drag event.
I noticed Ernie likes to drop names, maybe some of the big name forum members that are running our brace at the track will drop in on this thread and give their impression of the performance change before and after installation. They are truely too numerous to list and it is just not my style.
We have never once made a claim to be a diff "girdle", never said it would prevent the diff nose from shearing off while doing a 7k rpm drop with MT drags. We stated it would "dramatically reduce wheel hop for both street and track applications without any noticeable increase in vibration" which is exactly what our spagetti/noodle/pretzel cage style diff brace does.
If you expect our diff brace to act as a "girdle" you are buying the WRONG part. So Ernie stop comparing apples to cookbooks. I know you have a hard time understanding how it works so here is a picture.
The facts are that our brace was not designed as a diff girdle. A girdle is good for super hard launches with super sticky tires, to keep the diff housing from cracking. For the the other 99.9% of the not so "serious" drag racers the PFS girdle serves no function at all besides draining their wallet of $350 and adding a bunch of weight to the car. It does absolutely nothing to limit drivetrain movement, as it does not attach to the actual car anywhere only to the diff housing.
When I broke my PPF and Torsen I was running upgraded suspension, toe links, trailing arms, etc ( launch kit if you will) and still got insane wheel hop, which of course transfers huge shock waves into the drivetrain. This in turn shattered the spider gears in my diff. After changing to a Kaaz and installing upgraded diff bushings, I still got hop, causing the PPF to fracture. After installing our brace, all wheel hop was gone, it certainly was nice not to have my dash ***** falling off anymore.
Lets face it the RX-7 is not the best straight line car. If I were as serious a drag racer as Ernie claims to be, then I would have dumped my money into a Mustang/Camaro/whatever or at least a four link rear.
However for autocross & road course the RX-7 is fantastic. This is where the majority of the racing for these cars is done (legally), it also is where the PFS girdle has absolutely no effect on anything at all. I have never heard of anyone ever cracking their diff open at an autocross event while pulling hard out of a corner. It is however very important to limit drivetrain movement, this is where our polyurethane mounts and diff brace come into play. By cutting down on movement (slop) more power is being transfered to the gound. It gives you a much more predictable car, that is much more fun to drive.
As far as the design goes, I am not a fan of the T-style braces, they allow for to much bouncing of the diff. They do stiffen things up some, but not to the extent that ours does. Ours mounts directly in front of the diff, not 2 feet away. However I am not going to tell people not to buy it because it is junk, it serves a purpose and it is nice to have options. It does have fitment issues though, you cannot install a 4" exhaust without modification to it.
So, the end all and be all is that we designed our brace for the other 99.9% of the street driven, Autocrossed and road course cars ranging from 200-600hp with the occasional drag event.
I noticed Ernie likes to drop names, maybe some of the big name forum members that are running our brace at the track will drop in on this thread and give their impression of the performance change before and after installation. They are truely too numerous to list and it is just not my style.
We have never once made a claim to be a diff "girdle", never said it would prevent the diff nose from shearing off while doing a 7k rpm drop with MT drags. We stated it would "dramatically reduce wheel hop for both street and track applications without any noticeable increase in vibration" which is exactly what our spagetti/noodle/pretzel cage style diff brace does.
If you expect our diff brace to act as a "girdle" you are buying the WRONG part. So Ernie stop comparing apples to cookbooks. I know you have a hard time understanding how it works so here is a picture.
Last edited by BlueTII; 12-06-07 at 05:54 AM.
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Nakd n Fearless (03-10-19)
12-06-07, 07:03 AM
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Your pretty red noodle looks nice. You won't name drop because you can't, lol...Your setup isnt proven. No pissing match, I state from experience, do you? Thought not. You state the PFS girdle isn't bolted to anything, lol...its bolted to the frame of the car and diff. It completely surrounds the diff with 1/4" steel! As for working better for autox then drag racing, it shouldn't matter what your doing if the design is bullet proof. Im not jocking the PFS product because I liked the looks of it, I like it because its PROVEN and it WORKS and has been in use for over 9 years. Things that you can't say.
Just look at your brace! You can see by the tiny twigs used to support it, it does nothing to help strengthen the case. Im done with the arguing. I came and posted my experience, thats it. BTW...I never bashed the KG brace. I said it worked well for the money I was a bit harsh when I said your brace was junk. I appoligize for that.
Just look at your brace! You can see by the tiny twigs used to support it, it does nothing to help strengthen the case. Im done with the arguing. I came and posted my experience, thats it. BTW...I never bashed the KG brace. I said it worked well for the money
I was a bit harsh when I said your brace was junk. I appoligize for that.
12-06-07, 07:18 AM
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Ernie your cars sick. I just wish I had as much money as you. My friend Tom just bought your old tranny. Anyway... I ran the KG brace for awhile. Basically ever since Keith designed it. I never had any problems with it. Just recently I cut it up and made it into more of dragon's design. I like it cause it supports the bottom of the diff alittle more BUT, it still doesn't hold the ENTIRE diff case! Will it help , YES. Will it mean that you will never brake your diff, NO. For the money though, I think its a good investment. ROAD NOISE, I really don't hear much more? If it is any louder its not as a loud as a DOGBOX! Good luck to ALL.
12-06-07, 07:46 AM
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The girlde acts as a brace. There is actually two parts to the PFS brace. I just didn't see a need for the other half as I havn't broke as of now, I probably won't. Buy the Banzai brace. I don't want to sound one sided.
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Nakd n Fearless (03-10-19)