Wasian

Got a question. Might sound stupid, might not but I need to know. I need to replace the rotor housings on my 13b from my 94 FD. Will the housings from JHB work for me? What about if I get all the components, i.e. housings, rotors, seals, etc. Will that be better? Im trying to research my options as quickly as possible. But so far I haven't found any mention of using JHB in an FD. Does that mean that it doesn't work because of some minor difference between the 13b for an FC and FD. I thought the FD and FC TII 13b were the same. I am and have been searching the forums for anything, but so far I've come across talk about south africa and not mention of using JHB ceramic coated products in a 3rd gen. I'd appreciate any help you can all provide. I need as much info as quickly as possible so I can make some decisions and get my sweet FD running again. Thanks all

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

JHB just does coatings, and they are not cheap. You'll have to contact them to see if that have any housings as they usually require your core. Yes, they do 13B-REW parts (if you look on their site).

If you are just trying to get your engine built, try contacting Kevin at Rotary Resurrection:

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/

He sometimes has extra engine parts that he doesn't mind parting with.... As far as JHB, unless you are building a serious performance motor (and price is no option), then don't think about JHB.

Wasian

Thanks for the info. I am in Virginia right now and I just had to tow my FD 200 miles to the only rotary specific performance shop that seems to be within 500 miles. The technician said that I have warped rotor housings. But he quotes the parts at about 1600, which seems highly inaccurate to me, seeing how the housings from JHB are 789.00 for the pair new. But I need to get this working as quickly as possible. Ive seen kevin's site before, but I'm trying to research all my options before I send my engine off for rebuild. Rotary Performance (RP) in Manassas, VA is the shop I'm using and they do rebuilds also. I guess what I'm asking is if I should just replace the housings and get the performance seals or get a new reman 13b, or just buy all the components from a place like JHB where theyve been reworked. From the simple and possibly poor addition I've done from the prices on JHB's site I came to about 2750.00 for new but coated components. I also have an option for a 20b for around 3k, but from all Ive seen on the forums it would be about 10-15k to finish that. So I'm looking toward keeping a 13b. I just don't know what to do about it right now. Lemme know what you think.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

That's $789 per housing with JHB.


New housings stock are around $600 per housing. Lets say you needed new everything (just using estimated numbers here, no actual prices):

2 rotor housings - 2x $600 = $1200
3 side housings - 3x $400 = $1200

Right there you are at $2400.

2 rotors - 2x $600 = $1200.

Now, you are at $3600 and you don't have any seals or anything. A rebuild kit with all the seals will run you another $1000-1400 depending on the kit used. Now, getting used parts, you can bring those prices down a lot.

Depending on what he was quoting for that $1600 parts, he might be right on. Do you have exactly what parts he was quoting for $1600?

Wasian

The estimate is still rough. We talked over the phone and my understanding was 1600 covered the housing(s), and new o rings. I'm not sure now if both housings are damaged or just one. Do they need to be replaced at the same time? I took it in because while I was out to sea, my wife took the car for an oil change because she said when she last started it, there was some white smoke. Not oil I know. But she took it in and the place she took it said it had a blown head gasket, which really boosts my confidence in their compitence. But when she went to pick it up it wouldn't start. So I thought it might be either flooded, or have dirty injectors and bad plugs. So we towed pretty far away to RP. The tech cleaned the injectors and replaced the plugs and ran a compression test, which was fine. So he took a deeper look and told me that the reason it passed compression is because the engine was flooded with water, not oil, maybe coolant. Well he said that the rotor housing was warped or damaged and that the o rings for the fuel injectors were bad. So now I know I need at least one housing if not both, new o rings, and probably new apex seals. Which leaves me where I was before. I am trying to see what all my options are. I guess I missunderstood the price of the housings, but I knew that the components were expensive. So what is recommended. I want to do what is best for the vehicle. Will it be okay to run and race at the weekend events if i just replace the housing, orings, and seals? Or should I get a new reman 13b? Or would it benefit me, with the intent to daily drive the car and autocross on the weekends, to rebuild with new components or even ceramic coated components?

xxxtodxxx

sounds like oyu need to go back to that place and talk to them. since it was driven in there and now the ***** broke

Wasian

mmmm... I did talk to them when I picked up the car to tow it to the rotary shop. The car was taken to pep boys and they essentially replied that they weren't responsible since it came in "with problems". Though my guess is that they started it, saw the WHITE smoke, called it a blown head gasket, freaked out when it didn't turn off right away due to the turbo timer, and somehow completely flooded the engine.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Wasian,

Here is the real question: If you rebuild the motor, are you going to do any porting?

If you don't plan do any porting, then just get a reman from Mazda.

That's pretty close. Rotor housings are $620 a piece (might be a little more as the prices have been going up over the last year). O-rings will run you about $7 a piece for the coolant o-rings. Then there are the oil control o-rings. So, his price is probably about right.

As far as housings, basically everything in the engine gets inspected. If anything is not within Mazda's tolerances, they need to be replaced (regardless if they were part of the original engine fault or not). For instance, your rear rotor housing could be warped, but your front housing could have too much chrome chipping or other problems.

If you want the best, that would mean 2 brand spanking new rotor housings with OEM seals. Depending on the condition of your side housings, you may need to have those lapped. If your rotors are good, get those cleaned, ceramic coated and replace the bearings. However, all this is going to cost quite a bit so if money is an issue, just go for the Mazda reman.

Wasian

Hm.. okay thanks for the breakdown. But I do plan on porting. My engine now was street ported and I really would rather miantain that same level of performance so yes, I do plan on street porting. Does that change any of your recommendations?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

A little. If your side housing are still good, then you just need to replace the rotor housings. However, if your side housings are also no good, you have two options:

1. Get a reman, open it up, port it, rebuild it
2. Get all new housing (rotor and side), port the side housings and rebuild

It really depends on what is useable from your engine.

Wasian

okay good stuff. So then foregoing JHB. Do you have a couple of suggestions on some reliable places to find quality parts I'd need. Also I'd like to get better seals and O-rings. Are the seals from JHB okay or is there something better you'd recommend. I really want to get the best seals so that I don't have this problem again anytime soon. Also, is it better two have 2-part apex seals or single seals? You guys are giving me some great info and I appreciate it.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The JHB seals are designed to work with their coated housings. I would recommend just getting OEM seals. As far as upgraded coolant or apex seals, it doesn't really matter (especially if you warp the housing). If the housing gets warped, it doesn't matter what kind of coolant seals you have. Same for apex seals, detonation is detonation. If you use a tougher seal, you cause more wear on the housing. Using a softer seal, makes them more prone to break under detonation. There is no clear choice as you need to decide what you want from the motor (power or longevity, you won't have both).

Just stick with the OEM stuff. Make sure to recondition the fuel, cooling and oil systems before the engine goes back into the car.

Wasian

Alright sounds good. Where should I start to go for the parts then?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I would *TRY* to get into the Mazda Motorsports program:

http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/

Since you said you plan on AutoX'ing, maybe they'll let you in (if not, you aren't any worse off then you are now). If so, you'll get some damn good deals on new parts. It not, for OEM parts call:

Malloy Mazda
1-888-533-3400
Talk to Ray Crowe

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Would the FC TII housings work in an FD engine build?

Mahjik, you sound really against the JHB products.....why?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Yes

I'm not against them. They are just pointless for a street driven car. They have also had problems with their process (check the Rotary Performance section).

If you are building an all out race care, JHB coatings are probably a good choice. If the car will be used for street/autox, JHB is going to be a waste of money.

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Read this thread....lots of good info on their housings:

https://www.rx7club.com/canadian-forum-42/interest-jhb-cermet-b-housings-new-dealer-482489/

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/plasma-cement-ceramic-coatings-first-impressions-389435/

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I followed that thread very closely.

JHB has since then made changes and are doing their process a little differently.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I'll trust them a little more after a few applications have proven their worth and longevity.

eyecandy

iTrader: (19)

I highly agree, besides I have yet to see a third party test of their product, with very little performance data and no test data on their page atleast comparing OE chromed surface and theirs makes me skeptical.

Wasian

Thanks guys for all your help and advice. I'm gonna go ahead with some OEM housings for now, but I still plan to look into assembling an engine with all cermet components at a later date. Maybe by then someone will have tested the components in an FD. Or maybe I'll be the first still. Time will tell.