IAT and HPDE
08-03-15, 01:38 AM
#1
IAT and HPDE
I just came back from a track event at Thunderhill. I run an apexi ihi single turbo kit at 8psi, pettit large stock mount with their shroud, and a koyo radiator. At the end of the session the ambient temp was 95F. My coolant temp was stable at 190F, but my IAT went to 122F. When the ambient temp was 88F the IAT WAS 104. When the IAT went to 122f, i notice a decrease in power on the top end. My question is there anything i can do to increase the efficiency or is this pretty much normal. Will a Vmount have much of an impact. I might have to look into AI. Track days are expensive and i was not able to use the car to the max.
08-03-15, 10:15 AM
#7
So whT is considered a good efficient temperature difference between ambient temp and iat after the intercooler? When it's 95f outside what would a good vmount drop the iat to? I was thinking about getting AI and see if I can trigger it if the IAT are too high.
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08-03-15, 10:59 AM
#8
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A single turbo boosting 8psi in 95 heat would likely be 45c and below with a similar vmic setup.
Most any AI setup is activated with a power switch in the cabin so turning it on at will wouldn't be a problem.
PS If you are not faster than most of the cars in the advanced level group you will see even lower temps because you are not driving hard enough
08-03-15, 12:54 PM
#9
VMIC is definitely a great set-up. The ability to get the size of a FMIC but without compromising cooling. Wish I had one. But it's much more expensive, typically requires relocating things and usually some fabrication...which personally isn't my strongest suit.
08-03-15, 01:11 PM
#10
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Not sure who you've been talking to, but I've had mine 5 or 6 years with no leaking. Been pretty problem-free. My capacity is small and intended for street, but with my nozzle and management would probably still last a 20 minute track session. And increasing capacity is easy and cheap.
VMIC is definitely a great set-up. The ability to get the size of a FMIC but without compromising cooling. Wish I had one. But it's much more expensive, typically requires relocating things and usually some fabrication...which personally isn't my strongest suit.
VMIC is definitely a great set-up. The ability to get the size of a FMIC but without compromising cooling. Wish I had one. But it's much more expensive, typically requires relocating things and usually some fabrication...which personally isn't my strongest suit.
08-03-15, 01:32 PM
#11
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We have modified ours cars in what I consider to be more extreme weather conditions than most see. We have moderately high heat (90F) but the altitude kills us for efficiency of heat exchangers and turbo's running hotter from higher pressure ratio's. We also run miles up thousands of feet of elevation for hill climbs with little off throttle spots.
We found that the most significant factor to running colder AIT's is ducting fresh air or placing the intake filter in fresh ambient air. This is more important than ducting or the size of the intercooler.
You want to run the turbo as low as you can in its pressure ratio, and you also want a very large air intake filter, as large as you can fit. the same principal applies to the exhaust side.
so if you are going to think about modifying something, get fresh air to the intake filter as a very high priority. water temps are obviously another high priority. you don't need a super large intercooler, you need cold air into the filter with a large filter. The turbo works WAY more efficiently and the intercooler won't need to cool the air very much.
We basically run a 0-5C difference above ambient temps for AIT. so 30C outside we are running 30-35C air temps. I also run water/meth injection in small amounts and My AIT's are basically ambient when moving. you will heat soak if you aren't moving. I drop from 20-30C's down to 15-18C using the water/meth injection on a 80F (27C) day at 6-8000 ft above sea level running 17PSI boost, pressure ratio of 2.6 or so.
We found that the most significant factor to running colder AIT's is ducting fresh air or placing the intake filter in fresh ambient air. This is more important than ducting or the size of the intercooler.
You want to run the turbo as low as you can in its pressure ratio, and you also want a very large air intake filter, as large as you can fit. the same principal applies to the exhaust side.
so if you are going to think about modifying something, get fresh air to the intake filter as a very high priority. water temps are obviously another high priority. you don't need a super large intercooler, you need cold air into the filter with a large filter. The turbo works WAY more efficiently and the intercooler won't need to cool the air very much.
We basically run a 0-5C difference above ambient temps for AIT. so 30C outside we are running 30-35C air temps. I also run water/meth injection in small amounts and My AIT's are basically ambient when moving. you will heat soak if you aren't moving. I drop from 20-30C's down to 15-18C using the water/meth injection on a 80F (27C) day at 6-8000 ft above sea level running 17PSI boost, pressure ratio of 2.6 or so.
08-03-15, 01:54 PM
#12
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I do track events on the advanced level, have a '99 spec front nose, vented hood and water injection.
My system, I have been lucky too, it doesn't leak.
It's active at 10 pounds of boost and it lasts two 20 minutes sessions, before I add to the 1.5 gallon tank.
Mind you, that I spray water pre turbo, external area of the large SMIC and post IC.
If I knock out the pre and out side spraying, the 1.5 gallon tank should last the 4 sessions in the day. Also depends on the size of water injector and when it come on line to spray.
No issues in the heat of Texas with cooling at the track.
Yes, it goes up to 100*C, but usually stays around mid 90's and oil stays around 90-100*C too.
I turn the system off for the street as it is not needed at 85*C.
My system, I have been lucky too, it doesn't leak.
It's active at 10 pounds of boost and it lasts two 20 minutes sessions, before I add to the 1.5 gallon tank.
Mind you, that I spray water pre turbo, external area of the large SMIC and post IC.
If I knock out the pre and out side spraying, the 1.5 gallon tank should last the 4 sessions in the day. Also depends on the size of water injector and when it come on line to spray.
No issues in the heat of Texas with cooling at the track.
Yes, it goes up to 100*C, but usually stays around mid 90's and oil stays around 90-100*C too.
I turn the system off for the street as it is not needed at 85*C.
Last edited by RedBaronII; 08-03-15 at 01:56 PM.
08-03-15, 02:52 PM
#13
Though an advocate, WI won't do much for IATs. It mostly just cools in the combustion chamber during it's phase change. It's the properties of methanol/alcohol that are better at cooling the air and will lower IATs. The longer that contact, the better. That's why I suggested early in the intake tract.
08-03-15, 02:57 PM
#14
I do track events on the advanced level, have a '99 spec front nose, vented hood and water injection.
My system, I have been lucky too, it doesn't leak.
It's active at 10 pounds of boost and it lasts two 20 minutes sessions, before I add to the 1.5 gallon tank.
Mind you, that I spray water pre turbo, external area of the large SMIC and post IC.
If I knock out the pre and out side spraying, the 1.5 gallon tank should last the 4 sessions in the day. Also depends on the size of water injector and when it come on line to spray.
No issues in the heat of Texas with cooling at the track.
Yes, it goes up to 100*C, but usually stays around mid 90's and oil stays around 90-100*C too.
I turn the system off for the street as it is not needed at 85*C.
My system, I have been lucky too, it doesn't leak.
It's active at 10 pounds of boost and it lasts two 20 minutes sessions, before I add to the 1.5 gallon tank.
Mind you, that I spray water pre turbo, external area of the large SMIC and post IC.
If I knock out the pre and out side spraying, the 1.5 gallon tank should last the 4 sessions in the day. Also depends on the size of water injector and when it come on line to spray.
No issues in the heat of Texas with cooling at the track.
Yes, it goes up to 100*C, but usually stays around mid 90's and oil stays around 90-100*C too.
I turn the system off for the street as it is not needed at 85*C.
OP asked about AIT, which I am also curious about.
08-05-15, 09:54 AM
#17
Wow thanks for all the great advice. I and using a vented hood and I am using the stock iat sensor in the stock location. When the track temp was 95f, the iat was stuck at 122f(50c). I tried a cool down lap with no full throttle runs and the temp was still at 50c, then I drive a regular lap and the temps got a little hotter.
I should really be in the c group but they put me in the a/b group. I was only able to pass two cars, well the same two cars for all the sessions. I guess I'll try the shroud extension, try to feed cold air to the filter. And drive harder. Haha
V mount is out of the budget right now. But I was surprised my coolant temps were so stable, it was only 3c hotter for the track.
I should really be in the c group but they put me in the a/b group. I was only able to pass two cars, well the same two cars for all the sessions. I guess I'll try the shroud extension, try to feed cold air to the filter. And drive harder. Haha
V mount is out of the budget right now. But I was surprised my coolant temps were so stable, it was only 3c hotter for the track.
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