RX7SpiritR

iTrader: (1)

I must have gotten a pretty bad batch or at least one was bad or something becuase my motor is already blown, really bad shaking and hard to idle. It still runs and such and can turn on A/C without dieing it just runs like crap. It only ran for about 1500 miles and when I came up to an intersection the other day it sounded like a helicopter. So now I have to be without the car once again for a while while they rebuild it once again. At least this time I'm getting ceramic seals put in there.

JaNusSolSumnus

That sucks man, I'm sorry... is it gonna have to be on your dime that it is replaced?

Is it true that if the ceramic seals let go they will not damage the rotor or housing?

RX7SpiritR

iTrader: (1)

No its a warranty job so its free of charge but its just a hastle. Car wasn't even driven hard or anything either, I even turned boost way down with manual boost controller down to ~5 or less psi too. The ceramics actually, when they blow they shatter. They don't crack like regular seals, therefore they will damage some on the way out possibly but should be ejected fairly quick since they should shatter into smaller pieces to go through everything with hopefully no problems. But I guess it depends on the situation too. But that's my theory I don't know too much about ceramics, anyone else that knows more will shed much more light on the issue than I could.

Fatman0203

Im hoping youve checked the obvious right? MAP sensor , etc etc.

CCarlisi

Who ported your motor? How large is your exhaust port? Sorry to hear about your trouble.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

IF ceramics do blow, they tear **** UP on the way out...we're talking massive damage.

The good news is that they're hard to blow. IF you use new housings along with new ceramics, in theory neither wears very much and you can continue to reuse them over and over until they do break. But yes, you can break ceramics just like any other seal...

Snook

iTrader: (12)

the seals are fine we boosted to 22psi with them. Demetrious has them in his 800rwhp engine
give me a break

RX7SpiritR

iTrader: (1)

wow that's wonderful, good for him. But does that mean they will never produce a defective product ever? No, all I stated was I got a bad batch, your the only one that wants to give me a hard time. Besides, maybe you can explain why a motor with only 1500 miles on it driven very easily and smoothly would go out like this? I don't know who you are and frankly I don't care if your gonna be slightly argumentive in the subject for no reason.

Fatman0203: Yes I did check all of that. At first I thought maybe my plug wire was off or something.

CCarlisi: R&R in Upland ported it, not sure the exact size though.

jimlab

The stock seals do a pretty good job of tearing **** up on the way out also.

And almost as easily. They're not proof against detonation.

Ask your engine builder. Hayes Rotary seems to manage it quite often without getting any "bad batches" of seals.

He's right, the stock seals are fine, and ceramic apex seals are a complete waste of money. You could rebuild the engine several times for the same amount.

JaNusSolSumnus

How much more expensive are ceramics?

Also, I've heard several people having bad luck with Mazda's latest seal design. Surge, you may be having good luck with them as well as several others but from what I've read many seem to favor the older style as more dependable. Although there are several unknown variables like driving conditions and modifications so I wont bother engaging an arguement over the quality of the seals... especially being I dont know first-hand.

~Kris

skunks

did you do a compression test?

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Ceramics are only a little bit more - about $180 for a set of stock apex seals, and about *$1800* for a set of ceramic seals . Yes, that's right, $1800 - and that's last time I looked a few years back. That's simply ridiculous.

I've heard a lot of good things about the apex seals Rotary Aviation is selling - might check into those.

Yeah, I've heard of problems with the new RX-8 apex seals and older 13B's - the seals aren't designed for the heat of the peripheral exhaust port, and they quickly warp. I really hope Mazda doesn't discontinue production of the old apex seals, or we're in bad shape.

Dale

JaNusSolSumnus

See I thought they DID discontinue the old seal production to standardize with what the Renisis is using.

I plan to go with with either RX7store or Pineapple for my rebuild when the time comes. I'm not sure what seals they use but if they are the new OEM's or Hurley I'm going to request Rotary Aviation seals.

~Kris

spec99

Ceramics go for about 300 a seal vs 30 for a normal seal. So thats about 1800 for just apex seals. I had them in one of my motors and when it leaned out because of a remapped ecu they did alot of damage. I had to buy housings and a rotor. I went back to normal seals now and had a smiliar problem to yours. My motor was shot at about 3k miles after being broken in very nice. Im thinking it was my harness because it was pretty crispy. I got my microtech now so that shoudlnt happen again and another rebuild. If you have the money to throw into your motor and are going to make sure everything is perfect get the ceramics, but a oem seal can hold up fine you just need to make sure the motor is tuned perfect and all the parts are working right.

ZoomZoom

iTrader: (2)

This is important info here. Your not the only one suspecting the seals. Ive had similar issues as have many others. Tell us what Ccarlisi is asking.

CCarlisi

Without pulling the motor apart you really can't draw any conclusions. Bad seals is one possible cause, but at this point I think you're jumping the gun.

If this is true I don't think the seals are the problem. All the problems I've seen with the 2-piece seals have the same basic fact pattern; fine when driven in vac and up to 13 or so lbs of boost, above that level they start to warp.

There seems to be more of a correlation between the exhaust port SHAPE, rather than SIZE, and seal damage. Ask them if the leading edge of the exhaust port is curved.

jimlab

That's no different than what I've seen with stock seals, unless you get lucky and they exit quickly. How about the turbine(s) of your turbos?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Any update on the status? Is the motor torn down yet?

cloud9

iTrader: (4)

JaNusSolSumnus YOU STOLE MY AVATAR!!!

Snook

iTrader: (12)

[QUOTE=RX7SpiritR]wow that's wonderful, good for him. But does that mean they will never produce a defective product ever? No, all I stated was I got a bad batch, your the only one that wants to give me a hard time. Besides, maybe you can explain why a motor with only 1500 miles on it driven very easily and smoothly would go out like this? I don't know who you are and frankly I don't care if your gonna be slightly argumentive in the subject for no reason.QUOTE]

No I really don't think mazda is producing different batches of apex seals. I'm not trying to give you a hard time especially about a shitty situation like an engine failure. However, I think the engine wasn't built properly or the parts reused shouldn't have been. I'm just someone that's gone through the rebuild process a few times and I watched my car on the dyno with these new seals and a ported engine. When you have no problems after 22psi and about 2 hours of pulls with the same seals it's hard to believe yours broke because they are shitty quality and while you were cruising at 12mph.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

[QUOTE=SurgeMonster]YEP It's not due to bad seals its bad parts or a bad build and I bet its a corner seal.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

couple things:

1. ive seen bad engines in 1500miles, one was a spark plug wire failure. another was due to poor assembly

2. mazda does not make the apex seals, they are made in germany.

jimlab

I've seen engines go bad in under 1,000 miles. Usually it was due to a member of the Hayes family being involved...

rfreeman27

iTrader: (5)

hahahaha

this thread is rediculous...