Hard starting with smoke?
07-01-05, 12:37 PM
#1
RX7 lover
Thread Starter
Hard starting with smoke?
Guys,
I've had my FD about a week now, and up until this point its started perfectly faultlessly, very quickly.
had someone come and re-gas the aircon on the car today, and after they played around with the valve (down by the spark plugs) the car now is very difficult to start and when it does start it feels unbalanced, akin to a piston engine firing on three cylinders. Lots of smoke comes out of the exhaust.
If you leave it to idle, it will eventually stall, but if you hold the revs around 2k, the unbalanced feeling evens out after about 10 seconds, and the car then idles and drives as normal.
This is while the car is hot, not had chance to let it cool down yet but never had any hot starting problems before...
Could the air con guy have knocked something down there causing this hard starting problem? i checked all the spark plug leads...is there anything else that could cause this?
i also filled the car with oil earlier on today, but it ran fine for 10-20 miles after i filled it.
Thanks for any help you can provide!
*edit* and please dont tell me to search, i have been searching and cannot find anything, and this is my baby im talking about - ive had it a week! *edit*
I've had my FD about a week now, and up until this point its started perfectly faultlessly, very quickly.
had someone come and re-gas the aircon on the car today, and after they played around with the valve (down by the spark plugs) the car now is very difficult to start and when it does start it feels unbalanced, akin to a piston engine firing on three cylinders. Lots of smoke comes out of the exhaust.
If you leave it to idle, it will eventually stall, but if you hold the revs around 2k, the unbalanced feeling evens out after about 10 seconds, and the car then idles and drives as normal.
This is while the car is hot, not had chance to let it cool down yet but never had any hot starting problems before...
Could the air con guy have knocked something down there causing this hard starting problem? i checked all the spark plug leads...is there anything else that could cause this?
i also filled the car with oil earlier on today, but it ran fine for 10-20 miles after i filled it.
Thanks for any help you can provide!
*edit* and please dont tell me to search, i have been searching and cannot find anything, and this is my baby im talking about - ive had it a week! *edit*
07-01-05, 09:00 PM
#4
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Sure sounds like fouled plugs. You could try swapping out the leading plugs and see if it gets better.
I used to have an FD with a "blown" coolant seal, and it ran perfectly fine, but was very difficult to get started because it fouled plugs constantly. I could occasionally get it to fire up without changing/cleaning the plugs, but it would often start out running on just the front rotor until it warmed up enough to dry off the leading plug on the rear rotor. Then it would stabilize and ran fine, until I stopped it and had to start it again. In my case, residual cooling system pressure was forcing coolant into the chamber as soon as the engine stopped running, which got the plug electrodes wet.
Of course, it's strange that this suddenly started happening after someone recharged the AC. But if it eventually starts running fine, and drives fine once warmed up, I expect that the plugs are fouled.
I used to have an FD with a "blown" coolant seal, and it ran perfectly fine, but was very difficult to get started because it fouled plugs constantly. I could occasionally get it to fire up without changing/cleaning the plugs, but it would often start out running on just the front rotor until it warmed up enough to dry off the leading plug on the rear rotor. Then it would stabilize and ran fine, until I stopped it and had to start it again. In my case, residual cooling system pressure was forcing coolant into the chamber as soon as the engine stopped running, which got the plug electrodes wet.
Of course, it's strange that this suddenly started happening after someone recharged the AC. But if it eventually starts running fine, and drives fine once warmed up, I expect that the plugs are fouled.
Last edited by DigDug; 07-01-05 at 09:02 PM.
07-02-05, 01:38 AM
#5
formerly chillin_rx7_guy
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If the guy changed the spark plugs from the top side, there's a good chance he knocked off the vacuum hose that attaches to the map sensor. The map sensor is located right below the driver's side windshield wiper. It's pretty small, black and had a hose or two? (forget) that's connected to it. Check to see if there's a hose missing on it.
07-02-05, 05:54 AM
#6
RX7 lover
Thread Starter
my "boost sensor" as its labelled has one pipe connected to it, and a 3 pin wire. These all appear ok.
looking more and more like a blown coolant seal, although i cant see how it just "goes" like this...the car was absoloutely fine until the air con guy touched it. I started it and drove it ten minutes before he touched it and it was fine, although this may be a red herring. He de-pressurised the line with the black cap on it, this is the air con gas and wont affect this right?
however, i was driving this morning and i got an "add coolant warning" beep and light. i stopped and added about quarter to half a litre of water to the car and i have not had the warning since.
Does this sound like a blown coolant seal then?
looking more and more like a blown coolant seal, although i cant see how it just "goes" like this...the car was absoloutely fine until the air con guy touched it. I started it and drove it ten minutes before he touched it and it was fine, although this may be a red herring. He de-pressurised the line with the black cap on it, this is the air con gas and wont affect this right?
however, i was driving this morning and i got an "add coolant warning" beep and light. i stopped and added about quarter to half a litre of water to the car and i have not had the warning since.
Does this sound like a blown coolant seal then?
07-02-05, 12:21 PM
#7
RX7 lover
Thread Starter
Update on the case...
Was driving along this morning and i received a low coolant warning... stopped off, topped it up a bit but wasnt sure where to put the coolant, so i put it in the cap in the middle of the engine bay.
Thought this would be as gooder time as any to learn how the cooling system works on this car, so i then drove to my local car part store and bought 10 litres of distilled water and 5 litres of coolant (ethyl glycol one or whatever its called)
Flushed the system by taking out rad drain plug, taking off filler cap, replacing rad drain plug fill with distilled water with hose off back of UIM. reconnected UIM hose and capped system, ran for 5 minutes. Repeated 3 times, then fuly drained system (As far as i could from rad drain plug)
Added 2.5 litres of coolant, and filled overflow tank up to the "F" mark. Then topped up main system with some more with distilled water. ran car for 5 minutes, then drove it 200 meters and i got a low coolant alarm. Turned around, drove home and added approx another 1/4 litre of distilled water.
Car stopped and started fine when semi warm, so i then drove it to the petrol station and shut her off. Filled her up, went into the station - paid. Came out - car started beautifully!
I then drove it for around 45 mins with heaters up full (and windows wide open lol) to ensure system is all circulating properly. The car is now outside and i will try and start her again in the morning, see how she does.
fingers crossed!
Was driving along this morning and i received a low coolant warning... stopped off, topped it up a bit but wasnt sure where to put the coolant, so i put it in the cap in the middle of the engine bay.
Thought this would be as gooder time as any to learn how the cooling system works on this car, so i then drove to my local car part store and bought 10 litres of distilled water and 5 litres of coolant (ethyl glycol one or whatever its called)
Flushed the system by taking out rad drain plug, taking off filler cap, replacing rad drain plug fill with distilled water with hose off back of UIM. reconnected UIM hose and capped system, ran for 5 minutes. Repeated 3 times, then fuly drained system (As far as i could from rad drain plug)
Added 2.5 litres of coolant, and filled overflow tank up to the "F" mark. Then topped up main system with some more with distilled water. ran car for 5 minutes, then drove it 200 meters and i got a low coolant alarm. Turned around, drove home and added approx another 1/4 litre of distilled water.
Car stopped and started fine when semi warm, so i then drove it to the petrol station and shut her off. Filled her up, went into the station - paid. Came out - car started beautifully!
I then drove it for around 45 mins with heaters up full (and windows wide open lol) to ensure system is all circulating properly. The car is now outside and i will try and start her again in the morning, see how she does.
fingers crossed!
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07-02-05, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by chillin_rx7_guy
If the guy changed the spark plugs from the top side, there's a good chance he knocked off the vacuum hose that attaches to the map sensor. The map sensor is located right below the driver's side windshield wiper. It's pretty small, black and had a hose or two? (forget) that's connected to it. Check to see if there's a hose missing on it.
07-02-05, 02:37 PM
#10
RX7 lover
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by BobfisH
my "boost sensor" as its labelled has one pipe connected to it, and a 3 pin wire. These all appear ok.
I think the reason the car started fine earlier was because the coolant hadnt become hot enough to pressurise the system, hence water did not make its way into the combustion chambers.
After driving the car long enough to significantly heat the coolant, i now get smoke...
Would you agree?
07-02-05, 02:49 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by BobfisH
my "boost sensor" as its labelled has one pipe connected to it, and a 3 pin wire. These all appear ok.
looking more and more like a blown coolant seal, although i cant see how it just "goes" like this...the car was absoloutely fine until the air con guy touched it. I started it and drove it ten minutes before he touched it and it was fine, although this may be a red herring. He de-pressurised the line with the black cap on it, this is the air con gas and wont affect this right?
however, i was driving this morning and i got an "add coolant warning" beep and light. i stopped and added about quarter to half a litre of water to the car and i have not had the warning since.
Does this sound like a blown coolant seal then?
looking more and more like a blown coolant seal, although i cant see how it just "goes" like this...the car was absoloutely fine until the air con guy touched it. I started it and drove it ten minutes before he touched it and it was fine, although this may be a red herring. He de-pressurised the line with the black cap on it, this is the air con gas and wont affect this right?
however, i was driving this morning and i got an "add coolant warning" beep and light. i stopped and added about quarter to half a litre of water to the car and i have not had the warning since.
Does this sound like a blown coolant seal then?
No, simply emptying the AC system wouldn't cause a coolant seal to go. Probably just coincidence on the timing of it.
As combustion gas escapes from the chamber through the coolant seal, it passes into the cooling system, pushing coolant out the overflow tube. When the car cools down, instead of drawing all of the displaced coolant back into the system to keep it full, the level drops because air has replaced some of the coolant.
With the car cooled down completely, remove the coolant filler cap and start the engine. Look for bubbles rising in the coolant. The bubbles can be quite small.
Just add coolant as needed, and check your overflow reservoir level after driving the car over the next several days - if the coolant seal is blown, it will continue to fill up with the coolant you're adding. It will eventually start dripping out on the ground when the engine has warmed up.
07-02-05, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BobfisH
Added 2.5 litres of coolant, and filled overflow tank up to the "F" mark. Then topped up main system with some more with distilled water. ran car for 5 minutes, then drove it 200 meters and i got a low coolant alarm. Turned around, drove home and added approx another 1/4 litre of distilled water.
Car stopped and started fine when semi warm, so i then drove it to the petrol station and shut her off. Filled her up, went into the station - paid. Came out - car started beautifully!
Car stopped and started fine when semi warm, so i then drove it to the petrol station and shut her off. Filled her up, went into the station - paid. Came out - car started beautifully!
If the seal isn't leaking too badly, you shouldn't have much difficulty starting it when the engine is still warm. The heat keeps the plugs dry enough to spark.
07-02-05, 03:16 PM
#13
RX7 lover
Thread Starter
yeah it doesnt seem too bad today, but yesterday it took me about 20 mins to get it started!
in any case, im looking into rebuild costs now (working myself)
i believe i am confident enough to do it myself...i guess itll give me a chance to redo all my vac lines, at least. Ill also get my injectors cleaned while im at it and test all my solenoids and check valves.
in any case, im looking into rebuild costs now (working myself)
i believe i am confident enough to do it myself...i guess itll give me a chance to redo all my vac lines, at least. Ill also get my injectors cleaned while im at it and test all my solenoids and check valves.
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