My car should be done this weekend and I will start the prototype or rather have Vince start it for me. He normaly only does custom cars like Foose and whomever. I'll post pics of the custom oil cooler set later that he did for me. I am looking to try and get a price of $300/pair-set of either trail arms or toe links (not both), with a minimum of 10 pairs/sets. Otherwise it will only be one pair for me as a favor. If this works out then maybe I can get strut bars, torque braces, frame and transmission braces, etc done in tatanium as well.

This will be top quality 100% titanium
Top quality aircraft grade zerk rod ends (something like that)
dust boots
(post your technical questions, i'll ask him then reply. )


Oh, I don't know if I have to do a donation for this. If i'm going about this all wrong, please let me know.

 

Wow, titanium toe links and trailing arms would be rediculous. Titanium anything sounds rediculous, I wish I had money right now because I would be one to jump on this.

 

Weird, I thought I already replied on this one,

If 300.00 is the total cost for both then sure I am up for this...sign me up...

 

^ I posted in west section by mistake.

No, $300 is target price for one set and not both sets. Please check out M2, Pettit & rotary extreme's prices for aluminum and chrome molly!

Titanium material is more expensive then aluminum and chrome molly.
No need for soild billet links and arms and yet stronger
extermely light wieght
aircraft quality ends
threading has to be done in a clean room for quality titanium work!!!
tooling will only last one pair
His hourly rate is more then my daily pay (this is a favor to me)

 

I'm not sure the small weight difference for the toelinks and trailing arms would be worth the addition expense...especially when the stockers do just as well as any aftermarket part.

How about a titanium PPF that would save some weight

 

I agree. I can't see any benefit from these links. The stock ones are very good, and will likely last twice as long.

 

^ I don't understand the last two replies. These have been sold by Pettit Racing and M2 for years. Rotaryextreme came out with a solid chrome molly version which is more expensive then the titanium ones that will be made for us!

Titanium PPF and you think the toe links are expensive? ...are you guys kidding me?

The stock ones you have to replace the whole arm since they don't sell the bushings. I thought everyone knew that. Why do you think M2, Pettit and Rextreme sell replacements?

 

http://www.m2performance.com/
Aluminum Trailing Arm Set $190
Aluminum Toe Link Set $230

http://www.pettitracing.com/Frameset.html
Aluminum Trailing Arm Set $249
Aluminum Toe Link Set $199

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/rod.html
Solid Chrome Molly Steel $265-$350

 

I'm interested, but I would like more details. If the cost is comparable to RE, then I might have to buy a set (I'm in need of both, so whichever would work for me). Josh

 

Goracer,

no offense to the post....I think it would be awesome to have titanium toe links and trailing arms...

if they were the same price as my rotaryextreme ones (or close to it) I would have probabably opted for the titanium.

However, the toelinks and trailing arms are not a super high stress piece that needs chromoly or titanium for that matter. Aluminum is sufficient. In fact the wear parts are not the bar itself but the end links. That's why I said that it would be overkill strength wise and, FOR ME, not worth the cost.

Also, if you think weight is important, by my reasoning... the savings maybe less than half a pound for aluminum vs titanium for the such small pieces such as the toelinks and trailing arms?

that's why I said something like the PPF would be cool as you could theoretically take advantage of weight savings if you could keep the strength equal....

Also, more mags are showing a surprising benefit to those fender braces....maybe you could make some up in titanium??

I didn't mean to rain on your parade. I do think titanium toelinks and trailing arms would be a very cool product....but for me not a substantial upgrade that I would be willing to pay for....now for those other items...let me know! I would be first in line.

 

If the airplane guys would step in and ask questions then I can ask him and get all the answers. I don't understand it, so i'll just relay back & forth. Aircraft quality heim joints, dust boots, pure titanium (not mixed unless there is some techinical reason not to go 100%), all work done in a clean room which lenthens the life span and increases the strength. He also makes battle bots beside custom one of a kind cars. I can't remember allt he stuff he told me, so just post the questions and I will replay when I can. I may have to edit his one hour technical answer to one parigrah though "lol".

It's not just the weight savings on the bar. He told me solid chrome molly was overkill as well (no offens to RE meant). The ends will be top quality and the pirice won't be a huge increase over what is allready being sold. If the aviation guys know what the heck a zerk fitting is, please chime in. I'll get more detail when he comes over again to finish my oil cooler with titanium hard lines (sweet).

 

I am almost sure that DamonB posted that they do have replacements for those bushing available now. Also jimlabs bushing replaces them.

 

Just FYI... aluminum weighs less than titanium and has about the same weight/strength ratio while costing 1/3 of titanium. Of course one has to consider what kind of strength are we talking about. Unless the titanium toe link can be 1/2 the size of stockers, we're only talking about a few ounces(if that) weight savings. Titanium are mostly used where strength is needed at elevated temperatures i.e. connecting rods(auto appl).

If you want to be different, make CF toe link. Then I'll listen.

 

^ I don't know why some of you guys are so negative. If you don't want it, that's fine. Don't spoil it for other people. I don't remember other group buys with this much resistance. No, it doesn't have to be made out of titanium, neither does an exhaust system but people still spend $1300 on one. The RE ones could have been hollow chrome molly but he made solid ones. Where was the critcisim then? There were plenty of people that bought those. I'm proposing top quality product from a top builder all custom made for a good price. Whether this group buy is done, mine will still be made and others will still buy aluminum and chrome molly versions. I don't see a reason for CF versions, that doesn't make sense to me and you guys would complain about the pirce anyhow. Besides, I don't have access to that and there are plenty of other guys on the forum that do.

You're making it sound like the only difference is the tube material. Yes, it's titanium but the ends will be higher quality which is what counts. The whole proposed package will be the "best" on the market! ...at any cost!

 

ok, they will be titanium tube with aviation Zerk (grease) fitting heim joints with dust covers.
These will be higher quality then anything on the market even the top of the line solid ones with nylon or plastic fittings (self lubricating = no lubrication needed) and they are priced "LESS" then.

Better quality aviation fittings
lighter and stronger tubing
custom made
last longer
even cheaper then solid ones ...$50 cheaper!!!
try and get these made on your own for less then $500/pair

As for replacement bushings, most of us are not talented enough and do not have the tools to do that and that is why the replacements are made. If you have to pay several hours to have them pressed in you are not saving money! If you are worried about OEM comfort this group buy is not for you nor is any other aftermarket toe link & trail arm.

If 10 sets are done, then different threading tools can be used which can bring the price down. Otherwise the tool will only last one pair. If there is not enough interest, then I will only do one set for myself and my used M2 sets will go on ebay.

 

Looks like 6061 aluminum to me.

 

ok, I asked him about making them in carbon fiber. He said it would be strong and light but there would be no warning on failure. It would be car to see cracks and it would shatter before you realized they went bad.

For the power plant frame: He can make it but he said it would be a boxed version and no sltos like the basket weave pattern on the oem one. So basically would be solid and three sides. Unless you want to pay full price and if you ask how much, he will turn you away then you have to wait untill I get one made then I can have several made at my price.

The strut bar will most likely be the next thing I ask him to make if not a belly pan. Will see later cause he just got in a Ferrari Dino which pays more then me, so i'll have to wait.

Oh his 32 Roadster is 1000hp (and not 800) with a 4spd auto 20something lbs of boost on the supercharger, michey thompsons on the rear, all wiring in the frame - only spark plug wires and radiator hoses are visable, are nots & bolts are titanium made by him, wheels made by him from solid billet, pretty much 90% of the car was made by him. The police came when he started it "lol".

 

cool!

 

I don't think anyone has voiced an opinion that is out of line, or negative on this thread. My opinion is that the stock links are very good, and will last longer than any aftermarket toe links I have seen. Replacement bearings can be easily pressed in, and are readily available. It isn't difficult, time consuming or expensive to have done. I paid $40 before I bought my bearing press. Now I could do it myself in 1/2 an hour.

I think titanium is overkill. My 3 cents

 

Hell, if they end up cheaper then the RE ones and at equal or greater quality, I'll send you the money this week. Of course there would need to be more people to get the price down, but I'm down for whichever gets made. A PPF or underbelly pan would be cool too. Josh

 

Yeah, the stock ones are supposed to be softer but have a short life span (60k or so). What's the lifespan on the aftermarket sets? I have no idea how you got them pressed for $40, maybe all the shops in CA like ripping us off since we make more money. I dunno, but that's only a 1/2 hour labor and most shops would charge a minimum of an hour. I wouldn't mind paying $40! Ship, I paid close to $500 for both sets from M2.

Titanium may be exotic but then solid chrome molly is overkill and these sets will be cheaper and better quality. They will not have plastic/nylon fittings. If I can get them down to $250 or even $200 then that's what they will sell for. I'm just passing on the favor to everyone else. Yeah, the titanium has the cool selling factor but the zerk fittings are whats important. I could have aluminum ones done but there's still labor and I allready have a set. I could also have him press in the replacement spearical bearing/bushings but i'd rather have a titanium set. I can't get them pressed in for $40.


EricM: Aluminum is not the same as titanium. fatigue in aluminum sucks. I took two bends to snap off the brackets from my fluidyne radiator (down & up then snap). Try and do that with titanium. My sets will still have better fittings then anything being sold right now and they $50 less then the top of the line ones.

Would I have done replacement bearings if available at the time instead of my M2 set? Yeah, most likely but how much are the replacements? How much to press them in? Does that add up to $200? I also paid for instillation. Unfortuantley i'm not a mechanic, the tools nor the crative skills as I paid for a custom oil cooler install as well.

Is a titanium exhaust for $1300 overkill? yeah, people still buy it.
Are fender braces, tranny braces, frame braces overkill for a street car? yeah, but people still buy it.
Are the solid chrome molly links overkill? yes, but people still buy them.

I'm not calling mine self lubricating without having a lubrication resovoir. I'm not advertising the tensil strengh of the rod end when bolts are stronger by 20x.

This is simple: I thought it was an excellent idea. I have someone that can do it for me. These are custom made, no one else makes them in titanium and no one else offers aircraft zerk fittings. I am paying for materials ahead of time. I'm taking no money. If 10 people want them, I front the cost. I sell them at cost to forum members. If I eat the cost, I never do this again. No one has to buy them. I'm not forcing anyone. These are not magical. If they are too expensive for you then have bearings pressed in instead assuming that's cheaper.

 

Ditto, ya got some of those materials wrong. The M2 units I saw were Chrome Molly Steel tubes. The Rotary Extreme units are solid aluminum.

As for the stock links being "very good" I don't think so. I had them (naturally) and even replaced the bushings. Sure that helped a bit but after 30K it was back to the normal clunking suspension with wheel hop. The Rotary Extreme links I have now eliminated this and "IF" they ever go bad I can just replace the rod ends, which is super easy.

As for titanium links it sounds great to me but there is no advantage over aluminum. You think fatigue in aluminum sucks just try titanium, it snaps after one bend in my experience. It is much stronger though so hopefully will never bend.

When I was looking at toe links/trailing arms I looked at price and the quality of the rod ends. Material wasn't a concern.

 

Titanium PPF and Drive shaft would be neat.

 

I'm interested in a set of titanium trailing arms and toe links. What will the rod ends be made out of (ball, body, and race)? $300 a set isn't unreasonable for a high quality setup. After all Rotaryextreme's highest quality setup is $350 for trailing arms. Sure titanium is overkill but if the price and quality are there? With high quality ends and dust boots these might outlast 2 of m2's or Pettits arms or links.

I do agree that the PPF would be the best candidate for Titanium because of limited space for more material. The shape wouldn't have to be the same but it should have similar fitment.