Houdini

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, just assumed that people that are on this thread would know the difference.

DamonB

And you base all this on your years of experience? Because this setup sounds good on paper but put together in one package it leaves some things to be desired....

apexhittinbull

iTrader: (21)

And what else is permitted in SuperStock?????? Other than cat back and replacement filter????

DamonB

The point I am trying to make is that you are building a list of parts that you have heard are the hot setup. Bolting parts to a car and setting up a competitive car are two very different things.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

This is so true. I was faster with my stock R1 suspension than with my GAB Rs and Eibach springs. It took me 3 alignments and a few events to figure out tire pressures and ideal alignment for that setup. I'm faster with the good stuff now but I was slower for a while.

That was a relatively small change, the more changes you make the more "tuning" time you'll need to be fast.

Oh and I also wonder why FD owners take it as a personal attack when people say the Z06 is the car to have in SS. It is true, and if you don't believe it you've never ridden/driven in one. Or at least look at the National results.

Jeff

redrotorR1

apexhittinbull

iTrader: (21)

And how the hell do you figure i haven't used this setting? I still have them on my R2 except the GABs. And yes i never used Koni Doubles as they are goddamn expensive.

Never make assumptions unless you check it out yoself, That boobie on that hottie you think it's 36C ain't what it is after you see it, get it?

redrotorR1

DamonB is an experienced auto-xer. He's not trying to flame you .. so don't take it personally. He's just trying to stay objective with this thread. I'm an experienced auto-xer and I don't go around toting my setup as THE stuff to have. Different driving styles necessitate different equipment ... just as different drivers will have different preferences for manufacturers.

I agree the Koni Reds are expensive; but they are the only shock with the low speed damping that suits auto-x. Penskes and Aragostas are really setup for road racing. The Yellows do a good enough job for me ... although once I get to the level that I'm competing at Nationals, I know I'm going to want a set of Reds. Damn this racing stuff gets expensive ...

apexhittinbull

iTrader: (21)

And you figure i don't AutoX? hell yeah it's all in the personal preference as i said up in the posts, too many people think they are the god when it comes to FD, posts are opinion mine was based on my experience and others who i went up against. Don't make too much assumptions. I ain't the best as i aware, but what i do know i post. Just since they got 20K mods or Plowed pylons down for years don't make no Doc when it comes to fd's. This forum was for opinion of others who ran for autoX set up, i did my best to help the guy. Don't F*&kin come up to my face and make assumptions is all i say. Happy rotorin

apexhittinbull

iTrader: (21)

And i thought Koni Yellow can be made to double adjustable by Tri Point, compression and reboud separte. I had regular yellow's on for a while, 3 adjustables it don't come close to GAB 8 way.

apexhittinbull

iTrader: (21)

And i wonder what's the standard of Experienced auto xer? Are you the number 1 everysingle event in Local SCCA? domination? i know i'm not. Up in the posts are my 5 cents advice

redrotorR1

Never made any assumptions. I was vouching for one guy who I happen to auto-x with at the National Tour and Divisionals. It seems ironic that you made the assumption that I was ignorant. Maybe you should lay off the caffeine ... J/K.

Tri-point can do the custom valving or Proparts, and I remember there being one other company that was reputable. It ain't cheap ... $150 per corner. By the time you're done, you've almost paid for a set of Reds. I had the GAB Super R's and I like the Koni's better. The dampening on the GAB is way too stiff ... makes the rear too tail happy and the car didn't transfer weight as well as it does now. I also didn't like the non-independent adjustments ... if I was happy with the compression on one setting, I wouldn't like the rebound that accompanied it. The Yellows have a decent compression ratio as they come, and playing with only rebound makes tuning a lot easier. And FWIW, I usually place in the top 3 or 4 with 2 National champs competing in my class.

DamonB

Here's something you can add to your tremendous talent and professional car setup experience: Buy Hoosiers If you need that much camber to run Kumhos you have some gains that can certainly be made in setup. That's not opinion, that's proven with a pyro.

I agree with you on the people's opinion part, but I got the distinct feeling that since you immediately proclaimed the Best Setup you had no idea what you were talking about. There is no 1 best setup, there are lots of things that work. Sorry you assumed I thought you were inexperienced, I just assumed you were ignorant. Sorry for being blunt, but that's MY opinion.

Lay off the caffeine.

apexhittinbull

iTrader: (21)

What can i say? In front of Doc's i lost my words. And how the hell you figure i drink frappuccino everyday? Maybe you two Docs can sue howard shultz for me

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

I read Petit's alignment setup for a stock car in autocross.

Now I'd like to get everyone else's opinion on alignment setup for a stock '93 touring.

Yes, I'll be moving to SCCA Super Stock (from H Stock, finished 2nd overall in a 4,000-lb Mercedes wagon; could have gotton 1st but I missed 3-events!) with Z06's, but unless there's a newcomer in 2005, I drove faster than most of them in H-Stock.

I heard the early FD's were a little oversteer happy, so I'd like to know the alignment setup for a little more understeer than stock (less tendancy to spin the rear end).

I'll be running the stock wheel (16-inch) with 245 VictoRacer's and 225 Hoosiers all around.

Super Stock allows me to change shocks and front swaybar. Sounds like Koni Red's are the best and the Tri-Point front swaybar.

Unfortunately, this thread is fairly old, so I'd like some more current info.

Thanks in advance,
:-) neil

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

I'll second that request for updated opinions on setups. The next thing I'm replacing is shocks, so info on that would be appreciated. I'm on stock springs, and the car will see mixed street / autocross duty. Is there such thing as too much positive caster? (or is it spelled 'castor' ?)


-s-

DamonB

People have been running the same setups since 1993. It doesn't really change as the car ages


I have never felt the rear end of my stock '93 is near as tail happy as people always insist. Yes I've spun it on occasion but the car is very drivable and those mistakes were always my own; not the car's. It won't spin without you telling it to. The FD isn't overly lively, it's just not overly tame IMO like the far majority of cars out of the box.

My car has a Tripoint front bar and mount braces, Koni yellows and an M2 catback. Usually Hawk HP+ pads but I'm trying some new things right now. Usually runs on 245/45/16 Victoracers on stock wheels but I'll switch to V710's when my size is available in the spring.

How much camber to run has everything to do with the tire; different tires will like different amounts of camber. There is no right camber setting for an FD, there is only the right setting for the particular tire you run. If you don't have a pyrometer you can go by treadwear and feel. This will get you close but is imperfect. Last season I ran 1.9 degrees of negative camber at the front and 1.7 degrees of negative camber at the rear for the Victoracers. I like slightly higher tire pressures so I can get away with slightly less camber. YMMV.

I have found the keys to making the rear end work well is the front bar and rear toe in. A stiff front bar will keep more weight on the inside rear wheel at corner exit so you can get more power down earlier. This is so important on a turbo car. On the downside the car will push easier with the stiffer bar but my car is always faster than with the stock front bar. I also run 1/8" of rear toe in. This helps keep the rear end of the car tucked in under power through corners. I've tried as much as 1/4" of rear toe in and the rear was even more stable; much too stable for my tastes. Generally at the front you want toe out as this will point the front into corners quicker (but since it rotates the car more quickly you can break the rear end loose easily if you turn in too fast). Most FD's I know run an 1/8" of front toe out.

So this past season I ran 1.9* negative camber and 1/8" toe out at the front and 1.7* negative camber at the rear with 1/8" toe in. On my car that still left me with about 5 degrees of caster at the front. I run the Tripoint bar on the middle hole on all but the tightest courses, then I soften it up one hole. The front shocks are normally at full hard or no more than half a turn from full hard and the rears are normally fully soft or half a turn from fully soft. I have issues putting power down if I run much rear shock. I usually ran about 38 psi in the front tires and 36 psi in the rears. Those would change a pound or two depending on the surface.

Odds are when I switch to the V710 I'll need more camber at minimum.


Don't make the mistake of just copying other people's setup onto your car. If you do not or cannot drive like the other person you are not going to like it. Just because it's fast for him doesn't mean it will be fast for you, especially if the two of you have different levels of experience. In general what I run can make the car twitchy and unforgiving without having driven the car some. If you go out there and fear the car or spin around everytime the setup is not working for you. The most important thing is driver confidence and that will change with experience level.