Anybody have 'em?

My project FD has a visible toe-in problem. I would just do this myself, but it would be a frustrating job of trial & error with no alignment machine. Plus, I would like to have the camber checked/adjusted as well, and that would be even harder for me.

Anybody know where I can find the spec's? Lastly, I am planning on doing some autocross (in B'ham in the spring) with my FD junkyard dog (its really not that bad, but that's what I've nick-named my car for now), do you guys have recommended camber settings? Let me know. Thanks.

- JyRO

 

Use the Pettit Alignment specs:

http://www.jimagu.com/tinou/pettit_alignment.jpg

 

Mahjik - I under estimated you. I thought about just PM'ing you to start with, but I didn't. You duh man! Now to find a shop that will actually try to achieve those spec's.

- JyRO

 

It should be easy for a good shop to do it. There are numerous adjustments built into this suspension. My alignment guy thought it was great - he'd never adjusted an FD before.

Dave

 

I called a performance shop that can't do it, but the guy said his buddy who works there has an SCCA car and has had alignment done. He told me to call back later when the other guy comes in and talk with the him about where he's had it done.

And then I called a local shop, and this guy said it was 70 bucks for a 4 wheel alignment, plus $45 per wheel that they have to adjust camber on. I was like, screw that. I bet those guys might not get it exact either.

I'll talk to the guy at the performance shop and find out where he get's his done.

- JyRO

 

Not that this is the best way to do it, but for toe-in, a quick and relatively accurate method is to:

a. find a flat, semi-level floor or parking lot
b. get a carpenter's square or a small plumb bob
c. roll the car forward w/ the steering wheel straight
d. eyeball that both sides have about the same toe, and if not, which side is toe'd in or out more (use this for reference on which side to adjust which way)
e. drop the plumb bob from (or use the square, with one leg flat on the ground) against the widest part of the tire sidewall at the front and rear of each tire, and mark where the bob or inner edge of the square hits the ground, front and rear of each tire
f. roll the car back (or forward) and measure across between the front and then between the rear marks
g. adjust the toe to get both sides equally toe'd (eyeball again) and the difference in distance between the front marks and the rear marks is the total toe
h. repeat the process until you like the results.

I know this sounds a bit tedious, but it's really pretty good and not that hard to do, and it's free.

I've used this method with good results a bunch of times on various street vehicles.

 

JyRO,

You know where I get my alignments done? Goodyear. Yes, Goodyear, not some super high performance shop.

You just need a shop that can get the car up onto their alignment rack. Some shops don't have ramps to help lower sports cars so they won't usually touch a car like the FD. But as long as they have ramps, they can follow specs from a sheet of paper.

As always, get a print out of what they aligned the car to so you know if they followed your specs or not.

 

I've always found it much quicker and easier to measure across the front and rear faces of the tire tread. You know right away if you have toe in or out and how much you have. Adjustment is as simple as watching the tape measure. No trial and error.

 

Damon - Your method sounds like you must be doing this with the vehicle lifted. Putting weight back down on the front end and rolling will throw your adjustments off. At least that's they way I've learned it.

The best way to align it is at a shop where the car sits on the tires as normal and the tires are on swivels with little friction. And then they do the alignment as your method (except they don't use a tape measure).

Here where I work, they have this type of alignment, but the equipment is within an FTZ (foreign trade zone). I cannot take my car inside.

- JyRO

 

The reason I project the sidewall measurements to the ground is that you can't always get to the tread area near mid-tire height to do the measurement on both the front and the rear of the tire - the fenders, frame, engine and other stuff are in the way. If you do it either way, you have to be exactly the same height from the ground on both the front and the rear of each tire, or you get radius and camber-induced measurement errors. Of course, that can happen with the square/plumb-bob method, also, but I think it's easier to minimize those errors doing it that way.

Most recently, I set the front toe on my wife's Passat after replacing worn front toe links. It took me about 2 hours including over 1 hour to replace the (rusted-in-place) links.

 

Nope; done with car at ride height. Alignment measurements are useless unless the car is resting on the suspension.

Nobody said you have to put the tape measure directly at the midpoint of the tire! The box you guys think in must be way too small

Here's a quick sketch of something that is very simple, very cheap and works as I described. If you're timid about measuring at the same place on the tire tread then scribe a line around each tire by holding a sharp something in front of the tire and spinning it.

The triangles' height is such that their tips at the top are axle height above the ground. Align these points to your scribed line. The triangles project down onto the ground for you without string or marking anything, just measure between them with a tape measure. If you're really smart you'll attach your triangles to something heavy so they can't move easily while you check with the tape measure.

Measure both the front and rear faces of the tire. Compare. Adjust. Pie.

 

At our Meineke shop we use a few short boards to get the lowest of cars onto the alignment rack. Worst case senario is utilize two long heavy boards and drive onto the ramp. It's not a problem as a real shop doesn't turn away high performance vehicles.

This really low-slung '77 308 GTB had to be aligned over the pit - full tank and 100# in each seat. We still used the plates under the front wheels. The alignment was perfect.

 

Hey, Damon,

I didn't really want to get into a pissing contest, I just wanted to suggest an alternative to an alignment shop.
OK. So how does your method differ in any real way from what I described? Your way you measure between triangles in place (you left that part out when you first stated your way) - may be hard to do unless the car's on a raised platform, and requires lying on the ground. My way may be a little more tedious, but you don't have to measure the toe lying on the ground. You can jack the car up to adjust, and then roll it into place again to let the wheels seek their alignment. Just different ways to do the same thing.

I call for a truce.

 

I've not adjusted toe on this RX7 (yet), but wouldn't it be a b... a bear to do with the car on the ground wheels on and in the way? And even if you could get to the adjuster, how could you turn it with the tires on pavement. Your wheels/tires would have a heck of a mechanical advantage over the adjuster mechanism with all the weight and friction. You must have access to a 2-track lift! If so, good for you!

- Jason (a.k.a. JyRO)

 

I'm in no pissing contest! Sorry if you were offended!

I've used string and weights in the past and it's a pain in the ***! You have to constantly get out from under the car, hold the string up, measure (Wait for the damn string to quit swinging everywhere first! Don't bump the string when you try to measure!), crawl back under the car, adjust, repeat etc.

The thing I drew is merely a poor man's toe gauge. You put it in place at the front and measure once. You place it at the rear and measure once. You compute the difference in toe you'd like to apply. You immediately input half that difference into one side and then crawl over to the other side. No waiting for strings to quit moving or constantly crawling out from under the car. You only have to move your adjustment mechanism once. I've done it both ways. String sucks.

You don't have to with the rig I pictured either but since you have to lay on the ground to adjust the tie rod ends anyway I just go ahead and lie there rather than out on my hands and knees. I'm lazy and don't scurry around any more than necessary.

With toe all your doing is steering the tire slightly and this is very easily done. Reaching the tie rod ends with the car on the ground is no problem. If you want the car higher to give more room than place thick boards under all four tires.

Adjusting camber is completely different, in that case you have to use slip plates (or somethng similar) or constantly roll the car back and forth to be certain the suspension is not bound due to tire friction against the floor. This is not problem when adjusting for toe, only when adjusting for camber.