FMIC disadvantages??
09-24-02, 12:19 AM
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FMIC disadvantages??
I was wondering if there are any disadvantages of running a FMIC on a daily driven car. I've read something about not being able to run A/C or something like that. I'm questioning more specifically about the Blitz and HKS front-mounts for use with the stock twins.
Brandon
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09-24-02, 12:54 AM
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If you have a '93 or some '94 which have the older type of A/C, then the (latest) HKS FMIC won't fit with the A/C.
Click "here" for HKS FMIC thread
From all the research i've done the disadvatage of FMIC is pressure drop and the dissadvantage of SMIC is heat soak from the engine bay.
Click "here" for Blitz FMIC thread
Click "here" for HKS FMIC thread
From all the research i've done the disadvatage of FMIC is pressure drop and the dissadvantage of SMIC is heat soak from the engine bay.
Click "here" for Blitz FMIC thread
Last edited by GoRacer; 09-24-02 at 12:57 AM.
09-26-02, 10:41 AM
#5
Ex fd *****
Heat Soak is only a problem when you ar standing still or moving less than 20mph - for a Daily driver a SMIC is prob. a better choice - easier fitment, better Engine cooling and AC function. at crusing speed is just as efficient as fmic
09-26-02, 11:07 AM
#7
There are advantages and disadvantages to the FMIC:
DISADVANTAGES:
- They block air flow to the radiator. They also heat up the air going to the radiator. The 3rds have enough cooling problems w/o interfering w/ the radiator.
- You may need a new front bumper, if you get an IC that is larger than the opening in the stock bumper
- There are a lot of bends in the tubing on the front mounts. Corky Bell's book "Maximum Boost" said that there is a loss for every bend. Don't have the book w/ me, so can anyone provide the numbers? I counted 4 x 90-degree bends on the inlet side alone of one of the front mounts on a Japanese tuner web site.
- Unless you put screen over the opening, it is susceptible to rocks, clogging by bugs and other debris, etc.
- Depending on how it fits, it could block the cold air source for your cold air intake.
- Longer plumbing might add lag or increase pressure drop.
- Corky said that the cores should use the shortest tubes possible. Most front mounts I have seen use really long tubes compared to the stock position ones. i.e.-
Good:
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Bad:
___________________________________
___________________________________
___________________________________
The "Good" layout is possible with a front mount. I just haven't seen any. The end tanks would need to sit on top of and on bottom of the core. Inlet and outlet would have to go to the sides. With a core that long, you would also probably want to go to a split inlet (see "THE" book :-).
ADVANTAGES:
- The FMIC is going to get a lot more cool air, i.e.- no radiator blocking it
- Opens up the engine bay, gives a lot more room
- It looks cool
For more info, including a long thread on this, see my site, and go to: Upgrades --> Engine --> Turbo --> Intercoolers.
Cheers,
Steve
http://www.ScuderiaCiriani.com/rx7
DISADVANTAGES:
- They block air flow to the radiator. They also heat up the air going to the radiator. The 3rds have enough cooling problems w/o interfering w/ the radiator.
- You may need a new front bumper, if you get an IC that is larger than the opening in the stock bumper
- There are a lot of bends in the tubing on the front mounts. Corky Bell's book "Maximum Boost" said that there is a loss for every bend. Don't have the book w/ me, so can anyone provide the numbers? I counted 4 x 90-degree bends on the inlet side alone of one of the front mounts on a Japanese tuner web site.
- Unless you put screen over the opening, it is susceptible to rocks, clogging by bugs and other debris, etc.
- Depending on how it fits, it could block the cold air source for your cold air intake.
- Longer plumbing might add lag or increase pressure drop.
- Corky said that the cores should use the shortest tubes possible. Most front mounts I have seen use really long tubes compared to the stock position ones. i.e.-
Good:
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Bad:
___________________________________
___________________________________
___________________________________
The "Good" layout is possible with a front mount. I just haven't seen any. The end tanks would need to sit on top of and on bottom of the core. Inlet and outlet would have to go to the sides. With a core that long, you would also probably want to go to a split inlet (see "THE" book :-).
ADVANTAGES:
- The FMIC is going to get a lot more cool air, i.e.- no radiator blocking it
- Opens up the engine bay, gives a lot more room
- It looks cool
For more info, including a long thread on this, see my site, and go to: Upgrades --> Engine --> Turbo --> Intercoolers.
Cheers,
Steve
http://www.ScuderiaCiriani.com/rx7
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09-26-02, 11:09 AM
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not much except blocks your radiator, so you better get an upgraded one.
Heat Soak is only a problem when you ar standing still or moving less than 20mph...
I would think it would also reduce the effectivness of your a/c since the condensor would be behind it too.
You can add two fans, such as large cumputer fans, to the condenser compensate.
08-06-04, 09:13 AM
#13
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08-06-04, 03:18 PM
#16
Hooray For Boobies!!!
Look at my sig. I am running the stock front end. Not a lot of opening for air. My temps stay low with the fans on high (84-88C). With the fans off the car will rise to 99C then back down to 92 C (low speed fan). It will cycle like this in normal driving and city stop and go. If I drive the car hard you can see my temps rise fast. It take some time for them to come down on their own and will keep rising into the trouble area if you don't back off or turn your fans on high. Once the fans are on high I can keep the car very cool (90C or so) even under hard driving conditions. Now for an FYI, I don't have any ducting or the under pan anymore. Never came on the car when I bought it.
So this tells me that I need ducting to help the rad cool the car off at freeway speeds. I should not have to run the fans at 70mph. That the only issue I have with the FMIC. But good ducting should clear all of that up.
I have not had a rock hit it yet. It is a possibility. I just drive careful and dodge every little bump and rock. I also do not follow close. You can usually see that damn thing bouncing around and swerve before it impales your car.
So this tells me that I need ducting to help the rad cool the car off at freeway speeds. I should not have to run the fans at 70mph. That the only issue I have with the FMIC. But good ducting should clear all of that up.
I have not had a rock hit it yet. It is a possibility. I just drive careful and dodge every little bump and rock. I also do not follow close. You can usually see that damn thing bouncing around and swerve before it impales your car.
08-06-04, 03:55 PM
#17
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally Posted by twinturboteddy
FD with stock IC and stock radiator
Cruising 89C-92C
Hard Driving 95C-98C
FD with FMIC and stock radiator(stock location)
Cruising 92C-96C
hard Driving 98C-103C
Cruising 89C-92C
Hard Driving 95C-98C
FD with FMIC and stock radiator(stock location)
Cruising 92C-96C
hard Driving 98C-103C
I was driving in a 95F day with FMIC and Koyo and in stop and go traffic I only saw 92c...Turn the AC on and that's a different story...it jumps up to about 99-101c...When driving on the same day...20-60mph varying speed around town it dropped to 86-88c...
I don't drive my 7 more than about 3k a year and have had the FMIC on there for about 4k...No dings in it...I just make sure not to drive directly behind anyone. As for the bumper. you don't need a new bumper...Just shaving some of the bumper will take care of it.
08-06-04, 06:10 PM
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This type of discussion has been going on since ICs were invented.
What is important isn't the IC itself, but the total installation and mod package for it.
Just like a cold air intake and larger turbo isn't any good by itself. You can't put much more in if you can't get it out first.
I have been driving my Blitz FMIC here in Houston for three years and love it. My close tuning buddy with a M2 large SMIC and single turbo with many mods is getting ready to get rid of his IC as it just does not cool enough in our summer heat compared to mine. And my water temps aren't any hotter than his.
They both have strong and weak points of which many can be gotten around if you have an open intelligent mind and spend the time. It does not take a lot of money to do this unless you are inept or not a good at mechanics.
So buy what fits your personality and meets your needs.
What is important isn't the IC itself, but the total installation and mod package for it.
Just like a cold air intake and larger turbo isn't any good by itself. You can't put much more in if you can't get it out first.
I have been driving my Blitz FMIC here in Houston for three years and love it. My close tuning buddy with a M2 large SMIC and single turbo with many mods is getting ready to get rid of his IC as it just does not cool enough in our summer heat compared to mine. And my water temps aren't any hotter than his.
They both have strong and weak points of which many can be gotten around if you have an open intelligent mind and spend the time. It does not take a lot of money to do this unless you are inept or not a good at mechanics.
So buy what fits your personality and meets your needs.
08-06-04, 07:50 PM
#20
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by cewrx7r1
This type of discussion has been going on since ICs were invented.
What is important isn't the IC itself, but the total installation and mod package for it.
Just like a cold air intake and larger turbo isn't any good by itself. You can't put much more in if you can't get it out first.
I have been driving my Blitz FMIC here in Houston for three years and love it. My close tuning buddy with a M2 large SMIC and single turbo with many mods is getting ready to get rid of his IC as it just does not cool enough in our summer heat compared to mine. And my water temps aren't any hotter than his.
They both have strong and weak points of which many can be gotten around if you have an open intelligent mind and spend the time. It does not take a lot of money to do this unless you are inept or not a good at mechanics.
So buy what fits your personality and meets your needs.
What is important isn't the IC itself, but the total installation and mod package for it.
Just like a cold air intake and larger turbo isn't any good by itself. You can't put much more in if you can't get it out first.
I have been driving my Blitz FMIC here in Houston for three years and love it. My close tuning buddy with a M2 large SMIC and single turbo with many mods is getting ready to get rid of his IC as it just does not cool enough in our summer heat compared to mine. And my water temps aren't any hotter than his.
They both have strong and weak points of which many can be gotten around if you have an open intelligent mind and spend the time. It does not take a lot of money to do this unless you are inept or not a good at mechanics.
So buy what fits your personality and meets your needs.
