Finishing Non-Seq. Mod would like thoughts
04-30-12, 11:07 AM
#1
Finishing Non-Seq. Mod would like thoughts
Alright I am finishing up my Non-Seq. mod while installing the new motor and all the goodies I bought for my new RX7 FD. My concern is well.. I am really not used to these motors and many here are so I would just like to check once again that what I have read and learned is correct before I start it hopefully this evening. 
Modifications:
E85 using 1200cc Secondaries and 850cc Primaries. (AEM Wideband Present)
Fuel Pump Wiring Mod (Did a battery relocation)
Efini Y-Pipe (Charge)
V-Mount Intercooler
Koyo Radiator
3" Downpipe and 3" Exhaust no Cat w/ Resonator
Greddy Intakes
Removed Early Boost Prevention Butterflys (I forgot the technical term sorry but the butteryflys in the intake manifold behind the throttle body)
Removed Air Pump and all EGR is gone
Lightweight Flywheel and upgraded Centerforce Clutch
Now I have no intentions of changing the boost levels at this point, where they sit is where they will stay. Later on maybe but with this being my first turbo Rotary I guess I am overly concerned with it being reliable...
I removed both the Pre-Control Gate and the Big Gate (I believe this is the waste gate but I am second guessing myself) in the center of the Exhaust housing between the two turbos. Both holes are blocked off.
Since these turbos came with the motor I bought (A JDM) and they had the Efini Y-Pipe setup on them already I believed them to be the slightly bigger JDM Turbos but I can not be sure. It did come with a newer all in one solenoid (sp?) setup and newer harness connectors.
Now this is the one part I am sure will get me some negative feedback but it came with the car and honestly I need to decide if I like the Rotary before I buy something else.
The car came with the PF Piggy Back. I have done a lot of reading on it and for the time being will be leaving it on. Again I want to see if I like the Rotary if not I love the car but I have a 5.7L LS1 sitting here that will replace it. I wanted to try the Rotary first and see what I thought/how I felt. If I do like it then I will just sell the LS1 and build another Rotary while driving this one that will be run off a better Stand Alone.
Modifications:
E85 using 1200cc Secondaries and 850cc Primaries. (AEM Wideband Present)
Fuel Pump Wiring Mod (Did a battery relocation)
Efini Y-Pipe (Charge)
V-Mount Intercooler
Koyo Radiator
3" Downpipe and 3" Exhaust no Cat w/ Resonator
Greddy Intakes
Removed Early Boost Prevention Butterflys (I forgot the technical term sorry but the butteryflys in the intake manifold behind the throttle body)
Removed Air Pump and all EGR is gone
Lightweight Flywheel and upgraded Centerforce Clutch
Now I have no intentions of changing the boost levels at this point, where they sit is where they will stay. Later on maybe but with this being my first turbo Rotary I guess I am overly concerned with it being reliable...
I removed both the Pre-Control Gate and the Big Gate (I believe this is the waste gate but I am second guessing myself) in the center of the Exhaust housing between the two turbos. Both holes are blocked off.
Since these turbos came with the motor I bought (A JDM) and they had the Efini Y-Pipe setup on them already I believed them to be the slightly bigger JDM Turbos but I can not be sure. It did come with a newer all in one solenoid (sp?) setup and newer harness connectors.
Now this is the one part I am sure will get me some negative feedback but it came with the car and honestly I need to decide if I like the Rotary before I buy something else.
The car came with the PF Piggy Back. I have done a lot of reading on it and for the time being will be leaving it on. Again I want to see if I like the Rotary if not I love the car but I have a 5.7L LS1 sitting here that will replace it. I wanted to try the Rotary first and see what I thought/how I felt. If I do like it then I will just sell the LS1 and build another Rotary while driving this one that will be run off a better Stand Alone.
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04-30-12, 12:23 PM
#9
Stock level (No aftermarket boost controller is being installed) I know this box is a low point and I understand its limits. (Coming from HP Tuners and Before that Tuner Studio/Megasquirt I really am not happy with it.. but working towards a Megasquirt system on a motor I might decide I do not like seems like a bad choice) I need to see what I think as well coming from a Vette sure I know how cars with this kind of power feel but I have never driven a turbo FC or FD.
I really do like to error on the side of caution. I know using E85 without tuning further for it will not net me anything huge but I am doing it mainly for safety (Esp in the Tucson, AZ 100+ Degree heat daily).
I really do like to error on the side of caution. I know using E85 without tuning further for it will not net me anything huge but I am doing it mainly for safety (Esp in the Tucson, AZ 100+ Degree heat daily).
04-30-12, 01:46 PM
#10
You should relocate and replace your intake temp sensor. Replace it with a fast reacting one as our stocker is way slow to react to temp changes and it has been attributed to blown engines. As the ECU thinks the temps are hotter than they really are so the fuel mix is leaned out, and thus boom.
That just seems like an overkill for fuel when running stock boost. Granted you live in Arizona so your intake temps must be through the roof during the hot months. But wouldn't just plain H2O injection with the stock ECU suffice?
The stock ECU runs rich enough that as long as we maintain stock boost (no spikes nor creep) we can actually beat on the car without a care in the world. Granted, AZ is a whole new level of intake temps that is why I said H2O too cool down that charge.
That just seems like an overkill for fuel when running stock boost. Granted you live in Arizona so your intake temps must be through the roof during the hot months. But wouldn't just plain H2O injection with the stock ECU suffice?
The stock ECU runs rich enough that as long as we maintain stock boost (no spikes nor creep) we can actually beat on the car without a care in the world. Granted, AZ is a whole new level of intake temps that is why I said H2O too cool down that charge.
Last edited by Montego; 04-30-12 at 01:49 PM.
04-30-12, 02:01 PM
#11
I will start searching on the intake temp sensor and what its commonly swapped out with thank you for that tip I will def put that at the top of my list.
I thought about H2O but I have used E85 in my Vette and it is just easier from my stand point as there is no tank to watch since its the main fuel and has a gauge right on the dash. Plus when I do go further it will be a big safety mod as well as a performance gain. I just found it to be a better safety net.
I ran a 50/50 meth setup in my MR2 and it worked great but I went through it quickly and there were new parts to fail as with E85 its just modifying existing fuel lines, pump and injectors (I only did injectors and fuel lines) so nothing really get's added.
That's the extent of my thoughts and reasoning on it.
Thank you for the help I really do appreciate it.
I thought about H2O but I have used E85 in my Vette and it is just easier from my stand point as there is no tank to watch since its the main fuel and has a gauge right on the dash. Plus when I do go further it will be a big safety mod as well as a performance gain. I just found it to be a better safety net.
I ran a 50/50 meth setup in my MR2 and it worked great but I went through it quickly and there were new parts to fail as with E85 its just modifying existing fuel lines, pump and injectors (I only did injectors and fuel lines) so nothing really get's added.
That's the extent of my thoughts and reasoning on it.
Thank you for the help I really do appreciate it.
04-30-12, 02:04 PM
#12
-I would definitely ditch the PFS box and buy a Power FC.
-E85 may require more than a pump rewire. Get a Aeromotive Stealth. They are quite cheap for their capability.
-Personally, I would change the idea of E85 for water injection. Remember, this is a rotary, not a piston engine. E85 has the increased octane you need to run high levels of boost. This is the only real benefit. But you aren't running increased levels of boost. However, water injection does much more than allowing you to turn up the boost. It greatly reduces intake temps, steam cleans the internals of your engine while grealty reducing carbon build up, and increases reliability of your engine. Heat is the enemy.
If you are concerned abou the reliability of water injection then look into Rice Racing's manual preturbo kit. Dudeeeaman'sownRx7 (Brent) also developed a kit. Making over 500whp for many years. Below are a few links of interest. I am using Brent's nozzle with my own custom tank and lines. Balljoint is making 450whp on BNR twins using a dual setup of Brent's nozzles. Current record holder on the BNR's. His system details are in Brent's build link below....
https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/going-make-my-own-wi-kit-807016/
www.wannaspeed.com/
http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm
-E85 may require more than a pump rewire. Get a Aeromotive Stealth. They are quite cheap for their capability.
-Personally, I would change the idea of E85 for water injection. Remember, this is a rotary, not a piston engine. E85 has the increased octane you need to run high levels of boost. This is the only real benefit. But you aren't running increased levels of boost. However, water injection does much more than allowing you to turn up the boost. It greatly reduces intake temps, steam cleans the internals of your engine while grealty reducing carbon build up, and increases reliability of your engine. Heat is the enemy.
If you are concerned abou the reliability of water injection then look into Rice Racing's manual preturbo kit. Dudeeeaman'sownRx7 (Brent) also developed a kit. Making over 500whp for many years. Below are a few links of interest. I am using Brent's nozzle with my own custom tank and lines. Balljoint is making 450whp on BNR twins using a dual setup of Brent's nozzles. Current record holder on the BNR's. His system details are in Brent's build link below....
https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/going-make-my-own-wi-kit-807016/
www.wannaspeed.com/
http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm
04-30-12, 02:10 PM
#13
Everything I knew on E85 from my use was not only that is higher octane but that it cleaned and burned cooler as well, is that different for the Rotary somehow?
I am really not a fan of the PowerFC I would rather look into getting Megasquirt on an FD since I am familiar with it and well.. I like building them lol. I have not ruled out the PowerFC I am just not a huge fan of them. But again for the time being I need to see if I like the Rotary and want to really put money into building one or if I will be going the evil route with the 5.7L LS1 I already have here.
Is the Aeromotive preferred over the Walbro 255'ss now?
I am really not a fan of the PowerFC I would rather look into getting Megasquirt on an FD since I am familiar with it and well.. I like building them lol. I have not ruled out the PowerFC I am just not a huge fan of them. But again for the time being I need to see if I like the Rotary and want to really put money into building one or if I will be going the evil route with the 5.7L LS1 I already have here.
Is the Aeromotive preferred over the Walbro 255'ss now?
04-30-12, 02:36 PM
#14
My original engine died at 108K on the clock due to carbon buildup.
Over the last few years walbro's have been proned to fail. I didn't know that until mine took a dump and i started researching. I now run a denso.
04-30-12, 02:38 PM
#15
Everything I knew on E85 from my use was not only that is higher octane but that it cleaned and burned cooler as well, is that different for the Rotary somehow?
I am really not a fan of the PowerFC I would rather look into getting Megasquirt on an FD since I am familiar with it and well.. I like building them lol. I have not ruled out the PowerFC I am just not a huge fan of them. But again for the time being I need to see if I like the Rotary and want to really put money into building one or if I will be going the evil route with the 5.7L LS1 I already have here.
Is the Aeromotive preferred over the Walbro 255'ss now?
I am really not a fan of the PowerFC I would rather look into getting Megasquirt on an FD since I am familiar with it and well.. I like building them lol. I have not ruled out the PowerFC I am just not a huge fan of them. But again for the time being I need to see if I like the Rotary and want to really put money into building one or if I will be going the evil route with the 5.7L LS1 I already have here.
Is the Aeromotive preferred over the Walbro 255'ss now?
It's a tough spot that you are in. The Rx7 takes a bit of time and money to really start to become reliable. Much of the age, addition of new technology and failed systems must be sorted before they really come into their own. I personally feel the stock twins to be a major reliability issue. With a cast manifold transfering heat to aluminum housings, its a thermo efficiency nightmare. Heat is a huge killer for the engine, both intake temps and external cooling.
Going single and sorting out the engine bay heat issues are some of the greatest mods for a rotary. Unfortuantely, they are also the most expensive...
04-30-12, 02:43 PM
#16
I honestly do not mind the expense I just want to know I like the motor before I build it. (Obviously I know I enjoy the LSx series but thats not what this car came with, yet a popular switch. I feel I should atleast see what I think before I make a choice to completely change the car)
I will look into H2O setups it does make sense and if carbon build up is an issue that worries me. I know that with E85 an emerging problem with some (Including myself on the Vette) was it creating a film on injector tips. Its been determined for the time being as a fuel additive that is not reacting well and it gums up the tip, it's quite unnerving.
So taking another look at H2O is a good idea after hearing what you guys have to say, I appreciate the input.
On the topic of H2O do you mainly run straight water or a 50/50 mix with meth?
I will look into H2O setups it does make sense and if carbon build up is an issue that worries me. I know that with E85 an emerging problem with some (Including myself on the Vette) was it creating a film on injector tips. Its been determined for the time being as a fuel additive that is not reacting well and it gums up the tip, it's quite unnerving.
So taking another look at H2O is a good idea after hearing what you guys have to say, I appreciate the input.
On the topic of H2O do you mainly run straight water or a 50/50 mix with meth?
04-30-12, 02:56 PM
#17
Definitely cool that you are exploring the rotary world. NOTHING compares to the loud spool of my 35R. 25psi is comming and it will be glorious 
As far as AI goes, there are MANY options. Some use pure alcohol, 50/50, or just water. I personally will be using water only.
There is alot of information in the Auxilary Injection section. Read the stickied posts at the top. Lots of great information. The two I would recommend starting with....
https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/feeding-turbo-rotary-horsepower-airflow-fuel-injector-sizing-w-2014-turbos-888852/
https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/ai-nozzle-jet-delivery-sizing-587197/
As far as AI goes, there are MANY options. Some use pure alcohol, 50/50, or just water. I personally will be using water only.
There is alot of information in the Auxilary Injection section. Read the stickied posts at the top. Lots of great information. The two I would recommend starting with....
https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/feeding-turbo-rotary-horsepower-airflow-fuel-injector-sizing-w-2014-turbos-888852/
https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/ai-nozzle-jet-delivery-sizing-587197/
