silver93

For those considering rebuilding their 13B, here is my experience:

Back in November of '02 ,a crack in the wastegate vac line allowed me to overboost and blow one of the apex seals in my rear rotor. Basically for money reasons, I decided to do it myself. That way, i didn't have to come up with big money all at once.

I started by ordering Bruce Turrentine's R&R video and OH video. For $45, I consider these videos an absolute must.

Bear in mind, I worked slow. I was not in a rush, mainly because, you guessed it, money.

It took me a day to get the engine out and on the engine stand. I can't stress enough to get some stickers and mark EVERY hose, line, electrical connection, etc.. even if it seems obvious at the time, believe me, it makes life SOOO much easier when it's all said and done. Also, get a bunch of zip lock bags and toss the nuts and bolts for different items in different bags. transmission bolts in one bag, starter bolts in another, UIM in another, etc.... Loss of bolts nickle and dime'd me to death.

Actually breaking the engine open only took about 2 hours. pretty easy.

From there, it's all about getting things clean. carb cleaner stinks, but really cleans the **** of stuff. I didn't have a parts washer, so i bought a big 10 gallon tub from home depot for under $10. this worked just fine. also buy some chemical gloves from home deopt. save yourself from cancer.

Luckily, i was able to reuse my rotor. Bruce got the apex piece which was wedged into it out, and deburred it for me. filed it down and i was good to go. on the other hand, i had to get a new rotor housing, as the apex piece had gauged it pretty good. again, i saved about $80 by using a 2nd gen housing.

I bought a master OH kit for about $870 (i think that's what it cost) and a gasket kit for $150 or so. The housing cost me around $300 (can't recall now) and i busted one of the oil metering lines, so 2 new ones cost $75 from mazda. A new thermostat cost about $25 or so. New ACT clutch was $480 or so from Jason at the store and resurfacing the flywheel was $40. I spent probably $250 or so at the auto store on bolts, oil, antifreeze, plugs, misc BS, etc...

i probably spent 3 to 4 weekends on cleaning and specing things out. Obviously, this is the most important part of the rebuild. No need to rush things. Also, spec things out and replace what's needed. Luckily for me, all i ended up having to replace was a housing.

Putting it back together was pretty straight forward. It took me about 2 hours to get the block back together. from there it took me about a day to get the accessories back on the engine.

Putting the engine back in the car would have been a BIG pia if i didn't have jonathan b.'s (can't think of his screen name now) help. he was also a big help in turning the engine over while i bolted the pressure plate down.

all in all, it took all day sat and all day sunday to get the engine in the car, bolted down, etc... and finally started. we originally tried starting it at about 3pm, but it wouldn't start. jonathan realized the crank angle sensors were connected backwards! pulled the IC out of the way, switched them, and she fired right up - which is, i must say, after all that work, a great feeling.

All in all, a very do-able job. take your time, mark everything, clean it all well, and life should be good when it's all said and done.

ttpowerd

Way to go!! Any porting while you were in there?

dubulup

I love to hear, updates on this once she's broken in...

Without the price of the clutch and resurfaced flywheel it seems you spent around $1700 on the rebuild. (granted you spread that out over 5 months...0% APR credit cards )

Congrats on firing her up however!!! I know the feeling of working hard on something you've never tried before and getting her to run again!

silver93

Thanks guys. I wish I had the money to spare for the port job. I was so close to doing it, and kinda wish i did, but needed to save the money for the clutch and PFC.

I spent $1375 for the Master OH kit, the gasket kit, the new rear housing, and the videos. Then add in, yeah, about $300 for misc. stuff like nuts and bolts, carb cleaner, brushes, scrub pads, wash tub, gloves, 100 ft lbs torque wrench, etc..

So $1700 for a new engine plus my time. a mazda reman is what, $2200? go to KD rotary or something, it's around $3500-4000 installed? all in all, not bad.

Oh, and when i started her, she was pulling about 13 inches of vac. of 800 rpms. last night, at 16 miles, she was up to about 15/16 inches at 800 rpm.

dubulup

I hear you about driving around and knowing you did the work!

props!

What type of air-vehicle do you fly? I'm in the aeronautical industry. I want to learn to fly...first, must build reliable FD. Sucks up enough money.

silver93

fly? how'd you figure that out?
Yeah, pilot for a living. done everything from DC-3s, Beech 18s, Chieftains, Gulfstreams.
luckily, you can pay as you go for flying lessons. If you need any advice/help with that, let me know. i've got my cfi, cfii, mei, etc...

what part of the industry are you in?

rfreeman27

iTrader: (5)

in your profile it says your a pilot

bobby

paw140

How did you lose bolts? I lost my radiator drain plug somewhere... I never did find it again.

FYI, new oil lines are like $20 each from Mazdaformance and probably cheaper from Malloy. Also, Mazda remans come with a new flywheel and thermostat, so factor that in as well. You still beat me by a couple hundred dollars. I would have gone the same route as you if I hadn't needed two new housings and a rotor.

SnowmanSteiner

Nice job man. It's always good to see people taking the initiative to do their own jobs, and not just pay for someone else to do it. I understand about losing bolts. My friends and I have lost countless sockets in our cars and trucks never to be found again, it can be a royal pain in the butt. Congrats and I hope she runs great!

- Steiner

RonKMiller

Me too. 22 years as Commercial Hot Air Balloon, (12 passenger version plus pilot) 15 as Airship, and - gulp - 33 years Fixed Wing. Oh yeah, A&P too. Jeez, I'm older than dirt!

I HAVE scared myself a couple of times but knock on wood *points to head* only a broken finger nail so far.

Damn, I love DC3's, Cubs and of course, FD3S's!

While I admire your fortitude I would still buy a Malloy reman. Call me lazy, call me stupid, just don't call me late for dinner.

silver93

yeah, i basically got lucky on being able to salvage the rotors and housings. there were several times i looked out of the kitchen window and saw her on jacks and i kept thinking, "i should just get a mazda reman done and drop it in".
basically you can't beat the mazda reman price since they are done in volume, and you always have to ask what's your time worth.

ron - always nice to see A&Ps online. I knew you were one from your previous posts. personally, i really need to get my a&p. i've got the experience and training logs signed off, just should do it. also want to get seaplane, glider, and hot air!

paw140 - i have no idea how i lost the bolts. i did my best to put them in baggies, but after 5 months, i think they got pissed, grew legs, and walked off.

xstacy7

hahaha, I know what you mean man. The same exact thing happens to me. I put it down right there!!!!!!

dubulup

Nice, I'd like to be...one day when I retire (ha, I'm only 24)

I'm an electronic components engineer for Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company, they have a flying club (to learn and take lessons) I'm waiting to join...once I'm satisfied with my car...when and what will satisfy me...I don't know

but wanted to answer, didn't know if you check PM's since you didn't know where I found out that you were a pilot LOL (my dad flys a Gulf Stream G4 ???maybe???)

Fd3BOOST

iTrader: (7)

Well done, welcome to the club.

RonKMiller

I've never lost a bolt, just temporarily misplaced for days at a time.

boost-in-rx7s93

THe last comment was nice! I was going to do the project myself but sence I am going to port it I went with kevin landers $1700 rebuild adn port if everything goes as planned! $600 stock turbo rebuild!

praveen

guys i didnt have the same luck....my rebuild jsut wont start. i got spark, fuel, flooding under control, using atf in the spark plug chambers to seat the seals etc, but jsut not geting the adequate compression to start...been trying and cranking for days now.
compression is slowly improving but still low.
used new rotors, housings, checked the CAS ....no start...even tried towing....no luck...whats up/?

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

Malloy Reman is $1950 plus $100 for gasket kit. The engine I got has brand new housings. I don't know about the rotors though but assume so based on Ray's words.

But watch out for hidden costs like:

- engine harness $600
- pulsation damper $100
- oil cooler lines $300
- check valves $100
- fuel line recall kit $70
- turbo gaskets $40
= throw out bearing $60
- heat shield fabric $70
- 6 puck pineapple clutch $185
- lightweight 9.5 lbs flywheel $400

I'm up to $4K now in cost. This doesn't take into account the $2.5k I spent on a parts car 7 years ago which allowed me to install a very low mile set of twins and about $400 worth of solenoids, injectors etc.

The good thing is I saved about $1000 in labor for R and R.

If I had time and a second FD, I would rebuild one just for the education.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Good job doing it yourself, the way I see it though you really hardly saved any money over a reman. Malloy sells remans for $1950 like others have said.

I don't know where you were buying parts but $70 for the oil metering lines and $25 for a T-stat are WAY high.

Pomanferrari also mentions some good points. No one doing a rebuild should even bother with the old plusation damper or old fuel lines. Buying the recall kit is a great way to replace the lines for cheap and you'll need new injector seals anyway (included).

eschumac

turbojeff, you're sounding like an <sic> "old bastard". silver93 probably has a great sense of achievement and had some fun doing it himself plus he's sharing the story for our benifit. Let's not bruise his good will. Why try to drag him down with slighting comments? Too much rain in Oregon?

t-von

iTrader: (8)

How many miles since the rebuild? Have you done a compression check yet? Whats your vacuum read now?

silver93

well, regarding malloy - yeah, $1950 is a good deal, but don't forget the shipping. that'll porbably cost $100, depending on where you are. so the price is now $2050.

If you add up what the engine rebuild itself cost, it was $1320. That's a $730 savings. Everything else i paid for (oil meter lines, bolts, etc...) would have had to be paid regardless.

I've got about 1200 miles on the engine since the rebuild. I haven't done a compression check, but the vacuum reading at idle has now reached 17in. - before the rebuild it was at 16 in. As far as i can tell, there isn't any change in boost guage (as far as where the guage zeros out when the car is off), so i'm attributing it to nice new seals.

The car runs strong, and now that i've got a PFC w/ datalogit, it'll run stronger!

Mr. LV

Where did you buy that video from???? I need to get one.

xb2002

Rebuilt Evil7's for 675 in parts. We were able to reuse the 3mm apex seals (the springs waere collapsed) We changed all the side seals, corner seals, and springs.
Just put it in sat oct 9 and we took it to houston tonight (175 mi round trip) for the houston club meeting. 16" vac at idle. Price would have been cheaper but we replaced all of the injector bleed sockets and some new studs/nuts for the exhaust. We have boosted to 10 lbs and she runs hard. The map on the power fc had to be restored to base and he has an appointment to get it tuned by Steve Kahn Fri. He's hoping to get 16lbs of boost out of the stock twins with non seq..

VERY good feeling to buid a rotary engine and have it start on the first crank and haul a$$!!

FD3sAutobot

iTrader: (6)

Talk about back from the dead.......

Go here

That is bruce turrentines site. You can get his video's there.