FD Listed Among "10 Future Classics to Buy Right Now"
09-02-15, 07:08 PM
#101
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
For the life of me I can't see why a supra would be more valuable than a 7. Am I seeing that a supra is worth double than a fd?
Generally speaking scarcity is the biggest driver of asset prices. I'd argue that the two are on equal footing there. Away from that the 7 is a much more unique experience. It's a grassroots type sports car wth a darn cool (at the very least, different) engine. It has far better exterior styling as well. This is sort of a weird comment but I appreciate the community as well. There was a weird time in the community, maybe 2004-2008. But I think it cleaned out and is back to being a bunch of enthuasists that enjoy something different and are willing to help. I don't think this sort of thing would add monetary value but it adds a different kind value, to me atleast. My other car is a Bmw and I check out the forum on occasion. It's the worst. Anyways yeah the supra is a car just like every other car. It goes fast but I am not sure what differentiates it from other sports cars. I can point to ten things that make a fd different. That should mean more value. But it does not.
Does it come down to reliability? Maybe it's the mysticism that actually hurts prices. What I mean is for any mr smith it's tough to get involved in a car that you don't understand and can't find someone to work on. It has to be some sort of combination of the two.
Generally speaking scarcity is the biggest driver of asset prices. I'd argue that the two are on equal footing there. Away from that the 7 is a much more unique experience. It's a grassroots type sports car wth a darn cool (at the very least, different) engine. It has far better exterior styling as well. This is sort of a weird comment but I appreciate the community as well. There was a weird time in the community, maybe 2004-2008. But I think it cleaned out and is back to being a bunch of enthuasists that enjoy something different and are willing to help. I don't think this sort of thing would add monetary value but it adds a different kind value, to me atleast. My other car is a Bmw and I check out the forum on occasion. It's the worst. Anyways yeah the supra is a car just like every other car. It goes fast but I am not sure what differentiates it from other sports cars. I can point to ten things that make a fd different. That should mean more value. But it does not.
Does it come down to reliability? Maybe it's the mysticism that actually hurts prices. What I mean is for any mr smith it's tough to get involved in a car that you don't understand and can't find someone to work on. It has to be some sort of combination of the two.
Last edited by matty; 09-02-15 at 07:16 PM.
09-03-15, 10:31 AM
#104
For the life of me I can't see why a supra would be more valuable than a 7. Am I seeing that a supra is worth double than a fd?
Generally speaking scarcity is the biggest driver of asset prices. I'd argue that the two are on equal footing there. Away from that the 7 is a much more unique experience. It's a grassroots type sports car wth a darn cool (at the very least, different) engine. It has far better exterior styling as well. This is sort of a weird comment but I appreciate the community as well. There was a weird time in the community, maybe 2004-2008. But I think it cleaned out and is back to being a bunch of enthuasists that enjoy something different and are willing to help. I don't think this sort of thing would add monetary value but it adds a different kind value, to me atleast. My other car is a Bmw and I check out the forum on occasion. It's the worst. Anyways yeah the supra is a car just like every other car. It goes fast but I am not sure what differentiates it from other sports cars. I can point to ten things that make a fd different. That should mean more value. But it does not.
Does it come down to reliability? Maybe it's the mysticism that actually hurts prices. What I mean is for any mr smith it's tough to get involved in a car that you don't understand and can't find someone to work on. It has to be some sort of combination of the two.
Generally speaking scarcity is the biggest driver of asset prices. I'd argue that the two are on equal footing there. Away from that the 7 is a much more unique experience. It's a grassroots type sports car wth a darn cool (at the very least, different) engine. It has far better exterior styling as well. This is sort of a weird comment but I appreciate the community as well. There was a weird time in the community, maybe 2004-2008. But I think it cleaned out and is back to being a bunch of enthuasists that enjoy something different and are willing to help. I don't think this sort of thing would add monetary value but it adds a different kind value, to me atleast. My other car is a Bmw and I check out the forum on occasion. It's the worst. Anyways yeah the supra is a car just like every other car. It goes fast but I am not sure what differentiates it from other sports cars. I can point to ten things that make a fd different. That should mean more value. But it does not.
Does it come down to reliability? Maybe it's the mysticism that actually hurts prices. What I mean is for any mr smith it's tough to get involved in a car that you don't understand and can't find someone to work on. It has to be some sort of combination of the two.
Well, there were about 2000 less Supras sold in the US vs. the FD. Out of the roughly 11,000 supras, only 7000 were turbo with 3900 or so being 6speeds. Total turbo supras sold in the US is about half of total FD sales.
The FD looks much better, more nimble and is a much better driver experience. No doubt in my mind if I could only own one it would be the FD.
The supra, looks terrible from the front, good from the side and amazing from the rear. It is the best factory drivetrain to ever come out of Japan, period. It was far, far beyond its years in capability of power.
The stock diff, stock block and stock trans can handle 800rwhp reliably. There was nothing else like it 20 years ago, nothing. Just until about 2-3 years back it was dominating the standing mile events. Guys have driven the car to low 8s(maybe high 7s now) in the 1/4 on the 3.0L block and factory 6 speed trans. It is the fastest import in world on a drag strip.
While it isnt an FD on a track it holds its own and the factory brakes are legendary. Its comfortable to ride/drive long distances and the overall build quality is light years ahead of the FD.
Another thing that will separate it with collectors is it comes factory with 12 vin tag locations. If any panel has ever been replaced it is obvious.
Lastly, my wife will ride in it because it doesn't stink and generally a nice car.
With all that said, I will always own a FD and could care less if the Supra stays or goes. Even with my love for the FD I'm not blind to the fact the Supra is more rare, better built and has a much larger following.
09-04-15, 07:42 PM
#105
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Solid points. But if the supra is the benchmark then the fd is under valued.
Well, there were about 2000 less Supras sold in the US vs. the FD. Out of the roughly 11,000 supras, only 7000 were turbo with 3900 or so being 6speeds. Total turbo supras sold in the US is about half of total FD sales.
The FD looks much better, more nimble and is a much better driver experience. No doubt in my mind if I could only own one it would be the FD.
The supra, looks terrible from the front, good from the side and amazing from the rear. It is the best factory drivetrain to ever come out of Japan, period. It was far, far beyond its years in capability of power.
The stock diff, stock block and stock trans can handle 800rwhp reliably. There was nothing else like it 20 years ago, nothing. Just until about 2-3 years back it was dominating the standing mile events. Guys have driven the car to low 8s(maybe high 7s now) in the 1/4 on the 3.0L block and factory 6 speed trans. It is the fastest import in world on a drag strip.
While it isnt an FD on a track it holds its own and the factory brakes are legendary. Its comfortable to ride/drive long distances and the overall build quality is light years ahead of the FD.
Another thing that will separate it with collectors is it comes factory with 12 vin tag locations. If any panel has ever been replaced it is obvious.
Lastly, my wife will ride in it because it doesn't stink and generally a nice car.
With all that said, I will always own a FD and could care less if the Supra stays or goes. Even with my love for the FD I'm not blind to the fact the Supra is more rare, better built and has a much larger following.
The FD looks much better, more nimble and is a much better driver experience. No doubt in my mind if I could only own one it would be the FD.
The supra, looks terrible from the front, good from the side and amazing from the rear. It is the best factory drivetrain to ever come out of Japan, period. It was far, far beyond its years in capability of power.
The stock diff, stock block and stock trans can handle 800rwhp reliably. There was nothing else like it 20 years ago, nothing. Just until about 2-3 years back it was dominating the standing mile events. Guys have driven the car to low 8s(maybe high 7s now) in the 1/4 on the 3.0L block and factory 6 speed trans. It is the fastest import in world on a drag strip.
While it isnt an FD on a track it holds its own and the factory brakes are legendary. Its comfortable to ride/drive long distances and the overall build quality is light years ahead of the FD.
Another thing that will separate it with collectors is it comes factory with 12 vin tag locations. If any panel has ever been replaced it is obvious.
Lastly, my wife will ride in it because it doesn't stink and generally a nice car.
With all that said, I will always own a FD and could care less if the Supra stays or goes. Even with my love for the FD I'm not blind to the fact the Supra is more rare, better built and has a much larger following.
09-04-15, 08:43 PM
#106
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I'm thinking a nice low mileage FD will cost about 40k next spring or the one after and that's about where the supra was a few years ago.
It's supply and demand and these cars have always had a pretty similar demand (it's the supply that's pushing the supra price envelope) although David who knows both markets believe the supra is a bit more precious but in any case once a nice FD is almost impossible to find you'll see prices go 50s or higher for a low mileage great example.
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 09-04-15 at 08:45 PM.
09-04-15, 09:47 PM
#108
Full Member
Here's what Hagerty has for the current values for the FD and the Supra. I'm not sure how reliable they are, but the trends are pretty similar. However, I don't see that the Supras got anywhere near the 40s. It's interesting to follow.
Link for FD:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...ort?vbe=104497
Link for Supra:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...port?vbe=17616
Link for FD:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...ort?vbe=104497
Link for Supra:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...port?vbe=17616
09-04-15, 10:00 PM
#110
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Here's what Hagerty has for the current values for the FD and the Supra. I'm not sure how reliable they are, but the trends are pretty similar. However, I don't see that the Supras got anywhere near the 40s. It's interesting to follow.
Link for FD:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...ort?vbe=104497
Link for Supra:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...port?vbe=17616
Link for FD:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...ort?vbe=104497
Link for Supra:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...port?vbe=17616
Try to find a decent low mileage TT manual trans supra for 50k right now
I just sold a 95 VR R2 for 29k
Witnessed a 94 r2 ssm sell for 31k
Sold a 94 SSM R2 for 25k
Sold a 94 BB R2 for 24k
Sold a 94 VR R2 for 20k (maybe a little more can't remember)
That's in the past 12 to 18 months or so and I'm just one dude who buys and sells these cars.
09-04-15, 11:34 PM
#111
Full Member
Hagerty is clueless on both cars
Try to find a decent low mileage TT manual trans supra for 50k right now
I just sold a 95 VR R2 for 29k
Witnessed a 94 r2 ssm sell for 31k
Sold a 94 SSM R2 for 25k
Sold a 94 BB R2 for 24k
Sold a 94 VR R2 for 20k (maybe a little more can't remember)
That's in the past 12 to 18 months or so and I'm just one dude who buys and sells these cars.
Try to find a decent low mileage TT manual trans supra for 50k right now
I just sold a 95 VR R2 for 29k
Witnessed a 94 r2 ssm sell for 31k
Sold a 94 SSM R2 for 25k
Sold a 94 BB R2 for 24k
Sold a 94 VR R2 for 20k (maybe a little more can't remember)
That's in the past 12 to 18 months or so and I'm just one dude who buys and sells these cars.
09-05-15, 08:55 AM
#112
Here's what Hagerty has for the current values for the FD and the Supra. I'm not sure how reliable they are, but the trends are pretty similar. However, I don't see that the Supras got anywhere near the 40s. It's interesting to follow.
Link for FD:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...ort?vbe=104497
Link for Supra:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...port?vbe=17616
Link for FD:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...ort?vbe=104497
Link for Supra:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtoo...port?vbe=17616
Either way both cars are appreciating, I could see a CYM R1 or any 95 R2 pulling over $50k in a decade if it's under 5k miles. I'd pay $30k today for the right 95 SSM R2 and I'm "cheap" when it comes to buying FDs.
09-05-15, 09:40 AM
#113
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That Supra link is for an MK3, not MK4 supra. The MK3 is equivalent to an FC.
Either way both cars are appreciating, I could see a CYM R1 or any 95 R2 pulling over $50k in a decade if it's under 5k miles. I'd pay $30k today for the right 95 SSM R2 and I'm "cheap" when it comes to buying FDs.
Either way both cars are appreciating, I could see a CYM R1 or any 95 R2 pulling over $50k in a decade if it's under 5k miles. I'd pay $30k today for the right 95 SSM R2 and I'm "cheap" when it comes to buying FDs.
Supply and demand as we all know is what drives pricing and the FD supply is drying up so if you want one you better pull the damn trigger because the prices are not going down.
Try to find a nice supra right now. YOU CAN'T!
Try to find a low mileage FD (under 10k miles) YOU CAN'T
Try to find a low mileage FD (under 20k miles) You can and it's 25k plus. The VR 94 touring original owner car with 15k miles in MI is probably the best deal right now in the US at 27k.
Please show me a nice FD listed anywhere for under 20k and I'll buy it.
09-05-15, 11:02 AM
#114
Full Member
That Supra link is for an MK3, not MK4 supra. The MK3 is equivalent to an FC.
Either way both cars are appreciating, I could see a CYM R1 or any 95 R2 pulling over $50k in a decade if it's under 5k miles. I'd pay $30k today for the right 95 SSM R2 and I'm "cheap" when it comes to buying FDs.
Either way both cars are appreciating, I could see a CYM R1 or any 95 R2 pulling over $50k in a decade if it's under 5k miles. I'd pay $30k today for the right 95 SSM R2 and I'm "cheap" when it comes to buying FDs.
09-05-15, 11:18 AM
#116
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LOL
Realistically more like spring 2017 but as mentioned earlier not right now or that low mileage VR R1 would be long gone as well as the 94 VR touring I mentioned etc....
Also I think the world economy/house of cards is about to implode on debt/currency/interest rate manipulation which should stagnate all sorts of things including collector sports cars.
Realistically more like spring 2017 but as mentioned earlier not right now or that low mileage VR R1 would be long gone as well as the 94 VR touring I mentioned etc....
Also I think the world economy/house of cards is about to implode on debt/currency/interest rate manipulation which should stagnate all sorts of things including collector sports cars.
09-05-15, 02:09 PM
#117
FD Listed Among "10 Future Classics to Buy Right Now"
Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn
Hagerty is clueless on both cars
Try to find a decent low mileage TT manual trans supra for 50k right now
I just sold a 95 VR R2 for 29k
Witnessed a 94 r2 ssm sell for 31k
Sold a 94 SSM R2 for 25k
Sold a 94 BB R2 for 24k
Sold a 94 VR R2 for 20k (maybe a little more can't remember)
That's in the past 12 to 18 months or so and I'm just one dude who buys and sells these cars.
Try to find a decent low mileage TT manual trans supra for 50k right now
I just sold a 95 VR R2 for 29k
Witnessed a 94 r2 ssm sell for 31k
Sold a 94 SSM R2 for 25k
Sold a 94 BB R2 for 24k
Sold a 94 VR R2 for 20k (maybe a little more can't remember)
That's in the past 12 to 18 months or so and I'm just one dude who buys and sells these cars.
09-05-15, 02:35 PM
#118
Just returned from Cars & Coffee this morning in Scottsdale. 5 FDs attending plus a very nice white FC. A couple FD items of interest. First was an older retired guy who picked up a '93 touring a month ago from a seller in Washington DC. Car was a RED touring model with 43K miles. He paid $17K, flew into DC and drove it home cross country to Arizona with no problems whatsoever. The other interesting car was a black '94 touring with custom molded in body kit, single turbo with Vmount. The young girl driving it had purchased the car about a month ago from a body shop owner and FD enthusiast in Phoenix. She paid $25K for "her dream car." Not sure of mileage, but seemed to be a good solid car.
Anyway, add those two datapoints to the mix.
Anyway, add those two datapoints to the mix.
Last edited by RCCAZ 1; 09-05-15 at 02:39 PM.
09-05-15, 03:55 PM
#120
the 31k ssm R2 was bone stock
the cars I sold had 5 to 10k in mods
I'd rate FD values like this:
Under 20k miles and bone stock 25 to 30k
Under 40k miles with lots of goodies but everything still on the car (ie AC, PS, emissions etc....) 20 to 25k
Under 40k mile single turbo cars 15k to 30k (wide range because there is huge difference in a good single build and junk single LOL)
Obviously the higher the miles and the more mods the car has the more subjective the value is. A single turbo car w/o AC, PS, emission etc... is pretty much worth the parts or 15k unless it's a very nice always garaged type car then 20 to 25k MAX.
The dude who bought the touring did great the girl may have been robbed LOL
A wide body car from a body shop dude could be brilliant or complete junk. In my book any body work on the FD devalues it other than authentic 99 kits.
the cars I sold had 5 to 10k in mods
I'd rate FD values like this:
Under 20k miles and bone stock 25 to 30k
Under 40k miles with lots of goodies but everything still on the car (ie AC, PS, emissions etc....) 20 to 25k
Under 40k mile single turbo cars 15k to 30k (wide range because there is huge difference in a good single build and junk single LOL)
Obviously the higher the miles and the more mods the car has the more subjective the value is. A single turbo car w/o AC, PS, emission etc... is pretty much worth the parts or 15k unless it's a very nice always garaged type car then 20 to 25k MAX.
The dude who bought the touring did great the girl may have been robbed LOL
A wide body car from a body shop dude could be brilliant or complete junk. In my book any body work on the FD devalues it other than authentic 99 kits.
09-05-15, 04:21 PM
#121
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Sports car collectors are looking for cool attractive fun cars with history. It remains to be seen but I can see the FD out pacing the supra in value long term.
Currently and in years past the supra is more of the rage but I can see a lot more reasons to shelf an FD versus a supra on just looks alone.
The only 993s getting 400k are RS models the rest are still cheap relatively speaking or in comparison. I equate the recent price jump in collector cars like the 911s (what's happening to the 997 RS cars literally makes me laugh) and even the recent surge in the e30 M3's value to momentum stocks or stocks like apple that people just buy because everyone else is. In other words the wealthy have more money than brains and can't think of anything else to do with their money. The 911 cars have a pretty good chance of taking a big hit in years to come. Or the old saying of what goes up must come down.
Currently and in years past the supra is more of the rage but I can see a lot more reasons to shelf an FD versus a supra on just looks alone.
The only 993s getting 400k are RS models the rest are still cheap relatively speaking or in comparison. I equate the recent price jump in collector cars like the 911s (what's happening to the 997 RS cars literally makes me laugh) and even the recent surge in the e30 M3's value to momentum stocks or stocks like apple that people just buy because everyone else is. In other words the wealthy have more money than brains and can't think of anything else to do with their money. The 911 cars have a pretty good chance of taking a big hit in years to come. Or the old saying of what goes up must come down.
i'd just like to add that the FD has the history, Mazda started with the cosmo, and then worked through the Rx3/7's, all of which have good race history. of course the FD arrives just after the Lemans victory too. its quite deliberate on Mazda's part.
the Supra doesn't have a pedigree, its almost an accident. or maybe people like Vin Diesel that much. i did see a 2000GT for the first time a few weeks ago, and A nobody knew about it in the 90's, and B, its somehow plain and fiddly at the same time. they had it in a tent with a Ferrari 275GTS and a Miura, and it just isn't in the same league. if you want the real heretical statement, there was a Hemi Cuda convertible in there too, and it looks like a rental car, by comparison.
09-05-15, 09:51 PM
#122
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Yeah I mean it's probably best to get the beef from butcher, err I mean fritz. Lol
I could be wrong, but you seem to think there's some chance Haggerty might be right on the pricing and Fritz might be off? Just in case you are serious. That's wrong. You have read through the thread, right? Aside from a few of us old timers, Fritz and djseven have been selling these for 10+ years on a regular basis and they really know the cars and pricing intimately. The pricing curves from Haggerty are ridiculous and bear no resemblance to the market.
G
G
09-06-15, 08:08 AM
#124
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lol, i agree with the whole thing...
i'd just like to add that the FD has the history, Mazda started with the cosmo, and then worked through the Rx3/7's, all of which have good race history. of course the FD arrives just after the Lemans victory too. its quite deliberate on Mazda's part.
the Supra doesn't have a pedigree, its almost an accident. or maybe people like Vin Diesel that much. i did see a 2000GT for the first time a few weeks ago, and A nobody knew about it in the 90's, and B, its somehow plain and fiddly at the same time. they had it in a tent with a Ferrari 275GTS and a Miura, and it just isn't in the same league. if you want the real heretical statement, there was a Hemi Cuda convertible in there too, and it looks like a rental car, by comparison.
i'd just like to add that the FD has the history, Mazda started with the cosmo, and then worked through the Rx3/7's, all of which have good race history. of course the FD arrives just after the Lemans victory too. its quite deliberate on Mazda's part.
the Supra doesn't have a pedigree, its almost an accident. or maybe people like Vin Diesel that much. i did see a 2000GT for the first time a few weeks ago, and A nobody knew about it in the 90's, and B, its somehow plain and fiddly at the same time. they had it in a tent with a Ferrari 275GTS and a Miura, and it just isn't in the same league. if you want the real heretical statement, there was a Hemi Cuda convertible in there too, and it looks like a rental car, by comparison.
The FD has the history and the looks. It's also NEVER and I mean NEVER the fat lady at the dance. Park it anywhere and it will out shine the majority present and that says a tremendous amount for it's future collector status.
