I hear you it's not nearly as fun to drive a heavy car and it's a lot more expensive

That said the 350r is going to be a monster of a car at 70k

 

1990 model just passed 60k mi, stock and no dogleg. It's my favorite to run in the canyons. Just got the FD so not as much time in the canyons but the E30 is definitely much easier to drive fast. Still not used to the unpredictability of the turbo in the FD. The S2000 is the scariest on the canyons, ironically more so than the 993. The S2000 has the least feedback and does not inspire confidence like the others.

So even though the E30 M3 is underpowered by today's standard, it is still quicker in the canyons against most of the high powered sports cars due to the balanced and very forgiving chassis.

 

Agreed on the handling. May be the most neutral car ever made. Fabulous chassis. Seriously a challenge to spin if you are remotely connected to the car.

A good driver in an s2k or fd will smoke it in the canyons though It's all about power and weight and mazda and the honda are also no joke when it comes to handling.

 

What is the alignment on the S2000? How old are the tires? What is your tire pressure setup? Indeed the S2000 requires hairy ***** to be driven fast.

"Quicker in the canyons" depends a lot by how comfortable you are driving the car quickly. It is not an absolute reference as your bias plays a big role into it.

Back on topic, the source and a journalist who makes that mistake on the NSX make this article "10 future classics [...]" absolutely a joke. Regardless, I agree that a clean, stock FD RX7 will have future value appreciation.

Cheers,
HDA

 

I find it interesting to see how many of us FD owners also own S2000s. I feel like the two cars compliment each other so well.

You guys are making me want to try an E30 M3 out too. I love a car with a lot of feedback. To be honest, the S2000 seems to be numb in comparison to an NA Miata or even my FD. However, the S2000 feels faster in the corners when driving at the edge.

 

I'd rather drive a well built 200hp Miata than a stock 400hp Mustang.

Colin Chapman "Added Lightness" and embarrassed a lot of cars that should have been faster than his cars were. Only one car comes to mind that follows that rule these days. The Ariel Atom, and it's more of a street legal track toy.

 

Me too

BUT I'd rather drive a 450 setup mustang than a 200 setup miata

 

My experience exactly. To me, the S2000 is rather numb as someone suggested. Partly due to EPS but it just feels like driving on a simulator. Very nerve wrecking to push to its limits although it may have good handling capabilities.

I think the FD is very good in the twisties also but i like the throttle response of a NA engine better.

Personally, i don't think the S2000 will be a real collectible because they made a ton of them.

 

Well put. Personally, I bought the S2000 to satisfy my need of an open top driving experience, and I absolutely love Honda VTEC engines. They're a blast to drive, but the S2000 feels more numb than even my 99 Si.

I won't have the S2000 long enough to know (or care) if it will be collectible or not. However, I suspect that it will follow the same path as the NA Miata. I plan to replace the S2000 in the next five years with either an Ariel Atom, or possibly a Factory Five Cobra. The next car will need to be RAW (visceral).

 

The numbers for the ND are 2330 lbs, 155 hp, 148 lb-ft torque. 6800 rpm redline.

 

Cool that's about the same power to weight as the 1.8 NA. Super impressive that Mazda was able to achieve those #s again or so I'm told by all the magazines

 

nice to see the FD make the list.

hopefully, it will continue to gain positive appreciation in the coming years as it's legacy was too short-lived here given the Japanese economy mid-90s and since it had only 2 model-years of selling in the largest global car market (US).

side note and my two cents on the new miata:

if mazda wanted to make a lightweight car like the ND have 200+hp they could but it wouldn't have the same 'Miata-ness' that has made the model so successful and that's the point. also, if they make a light-weight car that has real power it is guaranteed not to wear a Miata badge, as again that goes against the essence of the model. for a car manufacturer to stick to a formula that works is not a bad strategy either, look at the 911 - it's design has remained basically the same for 50 years because it is instantly recognizable as a 911 and that's the point.

i get that we all want mazda to come out with something like the FD that shames cars twice the price, but they are in no position financially to do this without placing huge risks as they don't have the global super success of any mainstream model that can support them. mazda is a small manufacturer and sooner or later will likely be forced to merge or partner with another manufacturer that they can share development costs with as this continues to increase each year.

lastly, the new mustang is definitely the best one yet in probably every aspect but no one shops a miata against a mustang so the two shouldn't really be compared especially not a GT350R. people choose the miata because of the smile it puts on your face, and they couldn't care less about the power as the way it carries speed through the turns, the overall balance, and how it reacts is what makes it so good. mazda didn't screw this up with the ND, and this is a good thing. the looks are another debate altogether, but all i can say is it's better in person than in print.

btw my daily is a C63 507 edition so i like my HP too, but that's not what i qualify a sports car by.

 

Yep the FD and supra both came out at a rough time because the the dollar was low against the yen. The FD literally went up 10k from 93 to 94.

Also Mazda was so excited about the FD they didn't prepare the dealers or us (advertise it enough) for the car etc....

I'm glad you brought up the 911. Porsche is a great example of how a small company can build itself into a big company by supporting what works and sticking with their original ideas and not constantly introducing new cars but rather improving the ones they have.

The key concept here is improving. Each 911 that comes out is better than the last. Each boxster that comes out is better than the last.

With mazda the best miata was the 1.8 NA which was built 20 years ago or something and the car hasn't evolved at all or been a success since the NA which sold more than the other two models combined. That's not a winning formula and that's why mazda is a small company. With out risk you don't have reward.

I'm seriously betting the ND doesn't sell more than 15000 units this year and that's terrible or not very profitable. That's about 300 cars in each state.

Mazda has always been too conservative with the exception of the FD which is the best car they ever produced IMO.

IF the new miata had 250 HP and weighed 2500 pounds or less they wouldn't be able to keep the car on the shelf.

You are right. The people looking at the current miata are not the people looking at the current mustang. BUT the people looking at the NA miata may have been looking at the 1990 mustang and decided to buy the miata.

The current miata won't be taking any sales from any other market which is my whole point.

 

Probably true. If you want a hint as to Mazda's target demographic, and you haven't seen it already, have a look here:

 

Yep great commercial and really does give you an example of the market. Maybe Mazda doesn't care how many they sell

Oh well I just wish they or someone would build a decent light weight sports car for us enthusiast who would like to compete with the heavy weight cars out today.

 

I will admit that the new Miata is the first one that I have ever seen and really wanted one. With the FD in the garage being such a monster something like the FRS or new Miata become very very appealing as far as a cruiser and a learning car.

 

Have you considered writing a strongly worded letter to Mazda?

 

I'm certain Mazda could give a damn what I think LOL

Hopefully I'm completely wrong and there will be a huge market for the new miata and they will sell 3 or 4 hundred k cars which may mean they will actually build another RX7.

They could be on the cusp of the next horizon which could be really light weight low horse power practical little cars. Sort of like how bikes are taking over in some cities. However I don't think that time is here yet. There are still enough car nutz out there to justify the hp wars and that is why ford and chevy have started really paying attention to the enthusiast or making cars for the track.

As it is I see the miata failing and the RX7 being put on hold or RIP.

 

That's the same feeling I had with the S2000. It was a lot of fun at first but didn't really excite me after a couple years of owning it. It actually became a bit tiresome to drive daily but I guess if it was a track only toy I wouldn't have felt that way.

 

But you seem to have all the answers?

 

Be careful what you wish for. I had a Campagna T-Rex and to this day its the most fun experience I have ever had besides the FD. However, there is a certain level of "raw" where the vehicle becomes insanely impractical for anything besides just raising hell. If you think you feel bad about staring at your $20K FD sitting and not finding much time to drive/enjoy it, you will really get pissed staring at your $60k ariel atom sitting there that you never drive because its not even practical enough to run quick errands around town in.

 

Lighten up

Just expressing my opinion.

If you care or think I'm wrong express yours.

It's a subject I'm clearly passionate about and sorry if I'm offending anyone.

Yes I'm super pissed at Mazda because I think they have an opportunity and are blowing it.

 

I sense some sarcasm. I will reiterate what he is saying and back Fritz 100%. No way in hell would I buy a miata with the numbers it puts out. Its going to fail, few men will even be seen in one. Its missing the entire demographic of 25-45 year old men who are typically the ones who pay money for a real sports car. Its uninspiring, under powered and still a miata.

 

YEP

Which is why a LW 300 HP FD is the perfect fun DD car to me

 

No one on this side of the screen has bunched pantaloons. It's just funny you're bitching about the new Miata because it's still a Miata. The Miata has never been an RX-7 and never will be and it's still a great car.


Would you have considered yourself a buyer of any Miata in the past? Mazda isn't going after the buyer who wants 300 or 400 horsepower (although they'd surely love to have you). They're going after the buyer who wants a lightweight roadster; the same type of buyer who's purchased almost a million Miatas.