oyvindjs

iTrader: (4)

Hi!
We are a few norwegians who`s trying to get a USDM FD re-registered as an EURO FD, and
Decra/tuv in germany requires emissions papers on a USDM bone stock FD. I know california amongst others, are very strict on emissions rules, and alot of FD owners have to work around this over there.
Does anyone have any emissions papers on a stock FD they would like to share with me?
Pretty please...?

p00shy

iTrader: (3)

Which emission papers exactly?

oyvindjs

iTrader: (4)

Any emissions papers that show emissions of a stock FD? ***/NOx with a cat and airpump?

there must be something like that available over there?
Europe has em for the euro-fds. But, since USDM is another "car market", the papers are different... weirdly enough... even though the cars are identical...

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I think he's looking for any EPA certification info that Mazda would have obtained to be able to sell it here. I suspect you could be able to get it from the EPA, but that may not be a fun/quick process.

I'd be interested to see it just out of curiousity.

oyvindjs

iTrader: (4)

Hi!
That could be what im looking for yes. What is EPA? Any way someone will be willing to help me out?

oyvindjs

iTrader: (4)

did some prelim search, this gave me nothing with EPA

Results for mazda rx7 | Search | US EPA

oyvindjs

iTrader: (4)

neither this:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/im/finalrpt.pdf

oyvindjs

iTrader: (4)

well, found for an FC in this paper....

Document Display | NSCEP | US EPA

edit , sorry, its not standard emissions measurement, its a random car...

oyvindjs

iTrader: (4)

im after some official paper from mazda or US GOV showing rx7 FD emissions standards, so i can show it to Decra/TUV.
I mean, there MUST be some standard available, some paper for ex the smog check stations in California use as a baseline or standard...!

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Here's the problem--it really depends how strict your bureaucrats are.

The original documents you are looking for are sitting on a shelf in paper form at the EPA's office in Ann Arbor, Michigan (about 45 minutes from Detroit) somewhere because the FD is so old. The FD meets a very old emission standard that is very dirty compared to what is acceptable today. It might be somewhat equivalent to Euro 1, whereas we are currently at a minimum of Euro 5 and US Federal Tier II Bin 5. 2017 will roll out Euro 6c and Federal Tier III ULEV70 as the minimum standard for any future rotary.

If the vehicle were newer, you would find the application for certification here: Basic Search | Document Index System | US EPA For example, the 2009 Series II Rx-8's certification application can be found there. Here is a page out of it, showing the NMOG (non methane organic gas) results on an FTP and the CO results on an SFTP/US06 cycle:



I am attaching that document--rename the .xml to a .pdf .

Here is a screenshot showing the emissions results you are looking for, from a 1995 EPA summary sheet that is available here Annual Certification Test Results & Data | Cars and Light Trucks | US EPA . I am attaching the file, unzip and open in a text editor.




The calculations have changed over the years, but basically the FD had 3 times as much HC emission on the test cycle in completely stock form compared to a new Rx-8 from 15 years later. That Rx-8 is currently out of production in part because it couldn't meet Euro 5 emissions, and I bet it would have failed the US 20F/-7C emission standards that tightened up in 2013 model year. That shows you what a new rotary is up against.

While the California emissions regulations are the strictest in the world in a certain sense, the inspection standards ("smog check") are a joke in comparison, even though everybody around here complains about them. There's very little connection between a tailpipe concentration test on a warm engine at an inspection station versus a transient test cycle that measures mass flow over time and distance from a cold start.


If your smog people are ******** who want to see the original certification documents from 20 years ago, and then want those outdated calculations normalized to Euro 5 NEDC cycle calculations, and then want justification for that conversion... well you're not going to win that fight.

Mazderati

iTrader: (3)

Nice work, Arg.

oyvindjs

iTrader: (4)

I believe you just handed me the paper and links i needed to make this happen, Arghx!
These documents seem to contain what i need to send the Decra/TUV guys.
All they want, is to compare the USDM rx7 to the EDM rx7, and as we all know, they are identical, so the data will be identical. They just need some official papers saying this, and oh behold, you provided! Thanks alot!!!

arghx

iTrader: (3)

No problem, glad I could help. Let me throw out something just in case they come back to you about test cycles. I'm not an expert on emission certification practices from over 20 years ago, but here's what I know:

The USDM car was certified on a test cycle that looks like this:



There was also another cycle, the highway cycle, and some calculation based on the values produced from the two tests. An EDM car was most likely certified on a test cycle that looks like this (at least, left "urban cycle" portion):



As I was saying in my previous post, if they want to be difficult they can come back and start asking a lot of questions that won't be easy to answer about how numbers on the US test compares to numbers on a Euro test cycle. They can start nitpicking about test weights, coastdown data (road load derivation), all sorts of esoteric stuff that only an emissions certification/homologation person would understand. There are people out there whose entire job is to deal with this kind of stuff from regulatory agencies, and they get paid a lot of money. So you have to hope that you can send the documents to them and they will say "ok, that's good enough for me."