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Dogbox under development for the stock transmission
I just saw that Speedtek Auto Racing was developing a dog box for the stock five-speed.
Looking at the price of their other gear sets, the price (minus labor) should be less than a CD009 conversion.
If you're into gear whine, of course.
Liberty uses the stock helical gear set and face plates the gear faces of 1st through 4th for a dog like engagement.
I believe Libertty offers a strentghened input shaft and other services (including assembly.)
A full straight cut gear set offers the advantages of higher strength (from materials, tooth profile, processes and less axial loading) as well as reduced power loss (no axial load) at the expense of gear whine.
Real machined dogs may have some advantages over faceplating as well including clutchless shifting whereas Liberty recommends you always clutch their faceplated transmissions (its an abbreviated clutching if your well re-matched).
Usually dogs can be rwplaced whereas faceplating has to be redone (its welded to your gears). The service parts section of Speedtek Auto Racing website is unpopulated- so maybe you get no service.
Liberty has been around a long time and will fully service your transmission for you. That is a big deal.
I got my straight cut gear set from liberty and i built it about 11-12 years ago.
so no you dont have to send it in to get the goodies
as far as i know the faceplacing machines the groove that the synchros go in. No welding is required
as for the welding the gears on your existing gears only happens in certain cases where the ratios cannot be achieved. At least that was the discussion i had with Paul at liberty over a decade ago where i needed a much shorter first gear than the 1.9x:1 because my acceleration from a stand still was dreadful to say the least.
they also offer the stock gear option to be an economical solution but a more race oriented transmission vs the stock
i have used pretty much everything liberty offers for the stock case. It holds the power well but i have managed to twist and crack the case .
in short, IMHO just get the cd009. You are in japan and those transmissions are dirt cheap brand new from nissan in japan. I bought mine from japan about 2 months ago.
save the headaches and do it right the first time. I am in the process of doing the cd009 swap now
RX-8 five-speeds are still cheap here, so that's what I'm going to get when mine finally blows.
The transmission in my car is actually a high-mileage freebie from a friend. He's slightly shocked that it's still running strong.
Appear to do helical, not straight cut, so shouldn't be too noisey, short of fluffing a change.
Haven't checked pricing for close to a decade, but with the tiny market and established players over here, Albins, Modena, et al, in that ballpark and catering already, bit of a strange biz decision.
Originally Posted by Valkerie
Turns out they're also making heavy-duty housings for it?
That's one good thing, but unless required to do so by rules, using a box design basically from the 70s, seems backward. I'd wonder if they mostly farm out their production, satellite view may be old, the property where the biz is located, only appears to have a few shipping containers and a 2 car garage?
Appear to do helical, not straight cut, so shouldn't be too noisey, short of fluffing a change.
Right, I didn't realize most of their products were helical cut. I wonder how much torque it will be able to take if it's not using straight cut gears...
Haven't checked pricing for close to a decade, but with the tiny market and established players over here, Albins, Modena, et al, in that ballpark and catering already, bit of a strange biz decision.
That's one good thing, but unless required to do so by rules, using a box design basically from the 70s, seems backward. I'd wonder if they mostly farm out their production, satellite view may be old, the property where the biz is located, only appears to have a few shipping containers and a 2 car garage?
In my case, I could find someone locally to pull my transmission and install a gearset, but I don't think there's anyone nearby who would be able to do a full transmission conversion (clutch, hydraulics, driveshafts, fabrication), or at least not have it take several months, and I'm too dumb to do it myself. So, having a drop-in (ish) solution that uses a stock box makes sense.
Given most failures on load tend to be 3rd gear which suffers most from compliance of the main shaft and main shaft to input shaft bearing you could probably argue tooth depth/profile are more important than helix angle, although it obviously helps if a greater proportional amount of the force pushing the shafts apart is actually going to drive. I think once angles are shallower it matters less.
If I kill my OSG set the original gear set will run wastegate pressure until a T56 turns up.
FYI, iirc @GtoRx7. Logan at Defined Autoworks adapted a 5 speed dogbox to the 13b. Wonder if he has some parts and tooling to make this easier to get done.
Various other race shops have done that too. I know "finger lock" did it on his yellow FD - now owned by Sakebomb.
If I do go to that effort I think it is selling yourself short to use a cast aluminium bellhousing and adapter plate instead of a burst rated steel bellhousing. At least in Australia, if you want to run more than one decent quarter or 8th mile at a regulated drag track it's steel bellhousing, steel burst shield around alloy housing or burst blanket over the top anyway.
"selling yourself short to use a cast aluminium bellhousing and adapter plate instead of a burst rated steel bellhousing."
depending on how you use your FD... i agree re the burst proof bellhousing if you are seriously drag racing.
OTOH i have felt comfortable with my auto aluminum bellhousing since 2013 as i don't do drag starts. the FD wasn't designed as a drag race chassis. the road racing camber curve results in a bunch of camber gain on squat which isn't conducive to 60 foot times but does make it a killer on road courses. not to say that you can't engineer your way around it by locking down rear squat... then you have a crappy tail happy chassis for canyon carving.
for a burstproof solution contact Browell Bellhousings.
This has also been my experience. i loved the dogbox on track, loved it for a few days on the street and then it is a major pain in the *** especially if also the gearset is closed gear ratio with the first gear being too tall
. So, having a drop-in (ish) solution that uses a stock box makes sense.
HKS used to have 5 and 6 speed transmissions. the guts were from somewhere down under, and HKS made the cases (they did skylines,s13/14/15's too), so it bolts in
since you are in Japan, finding one of those might be the easy button.
HKS used to have 5 and 6 speed transmissions. the guts were from somewhere down under, and HKS made the cases (they did skylines,s13/14/15's too), so it bolts in
since you are in Japan, finding one of those might be the easy button.
They’re long out of production, and I’m not sure if they still service them. They were also rather expensive. Something like six times what I pay for my car…
Also, shifting an h-pattern with a clutch is part of the experience for me. It’s not all about lap times.
If you want to be a hardcore guy with a 'racecar for the street', then by all means go with a dog box on the street, but there are a lot of drivability and refinement issues with them which probably makes dog-boxes only preferable or 'ideal' for a just handful of people (but more legitamate if they track or compete in their FDs occasionally and understand and accept the compromises).
I agree that a synchronized 6-spd is a far better solution for 99.9% of people with 500+hp FDs; but there's also the Nissan CD009 as an alternative to the T-56 -especially for cars that rev >8K rpm:
