quid

What is happenin' my brothers? Hey, I need to take out my radiator anyway, so I figured I would do some free upgrades while the car is down. So check it out, I want to take off the A/C compressor, the power steering pump,and the extension pulley off of the 'crank' pulley. Do you guys see a problem with that?

I know a few of you do not have power steering so I am curious how hard it is to steer without it. Is there much of a difference?

Also, are there any other free upgrades I can do why I have the car down? I appreciate all advice.

Quid

Mitch529

Well I say go for the P/S removal... but the A/C thats really a personal preference if you can live with out it then go for it!

As for it being harder to drive w/the P/S gone... I guess that really depends on the person I think its sooooo much nicer, but I know others who wouldn't do it if their life depended on it (lazyness) :P

One thing is for sure it will clean up your engine bay 10x over! Just make sure you loop the rack if you need any help pm me... you do not need to buy a kit to do it!!!

Good luck!
Mitch

*edit* without p/s it can be a bitch to turn the wheel at anything under ~3mph but just get moving :p

RE Suzuki

It all depends if your fd is for street driving or strictly for track use. I've driven a fd without power steering and it felt heavy and crappy. I don't think it is a good to take the ps off especially if the car is for street driving. Personally, I would never take off my power steering or my A/C.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

If you aren't going to covert the rack, then just leave the PS in the car.

almondjay

I had to drive a rental car without power steering for a week. Parallel parking sucked but once the car was moving I didn't really notice it was missing. It is, however, a nice convenience to have and I would not have a daily driver without p/s again.

Jerome

Mitch529

I can't wait to order a converted rack they look so $$$ Much better than my loop :p but hey it works. Plus from the reviews they feel much better!

hotrodrx7

You're going to burn up driving in San Antonio with no A/C.

potatochobit

iTrader: (1)

there isnt a race track near san antonio cept a drag strip that i know of?

Touge Monster

iTrader: (2)

I wouldnt take out ps if you really cared about handling and such. You get more power and you can feel the road more through the wheel. But once you take it out onto the track or in the mountins your basicly fighting with your car to keep it on the right path in a lot of turns and it wears you down pretty quickly.

If your going to do it anyways, its not that bad for street driving. Just sux when your going slow.

quid

Yeah, I would not think about taking out the AC but I am in the Air Force and I am moving to North Dakota for three years. So, the AC will not be a problem there. I just want to really clean out the engine bay and I can only assume that I will free up a lot of power by alleviating all of that parasitic loss. Is there a way of getting rid of the AC compressor without getting rid of the PS?

Mitch529

yes you can remove the ac and leave the p/s you just need to get the correct size belt.

hotrodrx7

Looks like you could get a shorter belt to go between the crank pulley and the P/S and run the idler/tensioner a little higher up in it's travel.

Kento

Your assumption is incorrect. The only time the A/C pump is working is when it's on; the only time the P/S pump is really working is when you're turning in a parking lot. Relative to the power of the engine, the parasitic loss is minimal at best. As far as opening up the engine bay, well, you'll definitely get more room.

WildKarrde

I am used ot driving cars that have some form of power steering. I am assuming you are in the same position. You never realize just HOW MUCH power steering helps until you do not have it. I almost bought a '87 Porsche 924 Turbo at the beginning of the year (would have if I hadn't of lost my job). It had absolutely no power assecories... except for power windows... even the locks were manual. It was an entirely unique experience... but with me being used to driving with power... it was pretty hard to get used to. It is practically impossible to turn the wheel at a full stop, and you need to plan ahead which direction you want to exit from, otherwise you will need to start the car going in the wrong direction before you can start turning the wheel. I imagine that it would be a big hassle for you while you were getting used to it... and I don't know how long that would take.


The big thing here too is that the Porsche was designed to work without power steering... but the RX-7 was designed with power steering. Personally, I would recommend against taking it out... it's there for a reason, and it is very beneficial.

My question is though... what would the benefit be of taking out these things? I imagine HP is the goal, but as somebody else mentioned, the A/C is only sapping power when it's on. And I believe the P/S pump is probably working at all times... the only time it really needs to strain is in the parking lot... and you don't need the power then. I just don't think it would be a fair trade-off.

quid

I want to take out the AC because I bought the car wrecked and all of the refirgerent leaked out a long time ago. So, I want to take all of the AC related components, compressor, condensor, receiver dryer, out of the car to make some roon and save on weight. I thought while I was at it I would take out the PS pump iff it did not make a big difference. Even though my 3rd gen is not my daily driver, I still do not want to break a sweat every time I want to maneuver in a parking lot.



Has anyone taken out the AC and left the PS? Where is the tendioner forthat belt?

scratchjunkie

i have my ps looped and im running 18x8.5 up front. its not a pain in the *** at all. i can even parallel park in the hilly city of san francisco. all you gotta do is flex your muscles.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i am sorry but i can't resist posting whenever manual steering is mentioned.

my fd is a daily driver (other than winters-wisconsin) and i have pretty much every mod there is including some that are close to unique such as my twin garrett to4s...

manual steering is my favorite mod.

you might as well be steering a video game with power steering.

power steering is near the top of the mistakes (shud hv been an option) list that mazda made as they designed what i believe is the greatest mass produced sportscar.

front weight is only 1400 pounds. you aren't hauling around an suv or front wheel drive POS.

some people make the mistake of removing their PS belt to get a feel for "manual" steering. big mistake. if the car drove like it does without the belt i would still be running PS.

it doesn't.

when you just remove the belt you have to move the hydraulic fluid around and the steering effort is close to a dump truck.

remove all the ps crap and you have feathery steering w ROAD FEEL.

howard coleman

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Interesting as most race cars today use power steering (a quote from another PS debate):

WildKarrde

I've driven all kinds of cars, and I must say that generally, the power steering is the better drive. I have fun driving the manual steering cars (that Porsche 924 was one of the most fun cars I've ever driven) but not using power steering is almost like giving yourself a handicap. Not saying you can't be a phenominal driver without P/S, and not saying you can't win a race without P/S... it's just that P/S is a great asset, and there aren't really any downfalls to it.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Mahjik, remember that the big-league racecars will have a quicker steering ratio, sometimes just over 1 full turn lock-to lock. In their situation, it would take a lot more effort to turn the wheel.


I've been thinking about removing my PS, but want to try it before doing something permanent. If anyone in SoCal would be willing to let me drive their car, I'd be very grateful. Even if it's just around the block at Sevenstock this October.

-s-

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Either way, power assisted steering really has nothing to do with "handling" per say. Road feel is different than handling. If people think that removing PS automatically makes them a better driver, they really need to think again.

As DamonB put it, do you want the steering screaming at you or just talking to you normally (or something like that )? It's a preference just like leather or cloth seats, not really a performance mod.

People here pride themselves on doing "what the racers do"; well, the racers use power assisted steering.

DrunkenGimp

iTrader: (3)

Here's a n00b question that popped into my head: Is there a way to adjust how much (power) power steering assists you? I guess like an upgraded power steering rack or something. I'm pretty sure this exists for karts or racecars, but what about touring cars? Any thoughts?

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i suggest a better example re a pro PS position.

the Maranello is a big heavy GT car.

4075 pounds in street trim and yes it requires PS. i drove a Maranello at Brainerd for 10 laps. its'a boat.

the heft of the Maranello is however off the point.

let me state this again...

malfunctioning (belt removal-hydraulic leak) PS is NOT manual steering.

remove the PS belt from your car.
drive around the block.
drive a manual converted fd around the block.

now, guess which car has power steering hint: it will be the manual conversion

recently a friend (David Beardsley) had his fd apart for a gt3540 install asked me about manual but seemed skeptical... we went for a drive in my car and in less than 200 yards he turned to me and said the steering was great and he would be going manual. i got the biggest kick from watching his complete surprise and conversion.

as to PS on racecars..

sure it has a place. Nascar for example... think heavy, long races.

the fd, which is what we are discussing here, is a light car. make it lighter and say hello to road feel by ditching the PS.

i invite anyone who has done the complete conversion (not just removing the belt) to post their conclusions.

howard coleman

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Hence why I mention this eariler:


Some people love it. Some don't. Which is also why I said it's really a preference mod. Power assisted steering in any car is a good thing IMO. However, the amount of assist is really what is in question. It's the same thing the E36 M3 owners complained about with the E46 M3 (which has more power assist than it's older brother). It's the same handling, just different feel.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Listen to Howard.

A loop line is NOT the same as a true manual rack. A real manual rack on these cars rules. i don't even have an issue with it running 275/40 R-compounds on the front.