DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Hey guys -

So, I've been meaning to pick up a water/meth setup for ages. I had a number of goals with the setup, and I'm REALLY picky about what goes on my car.

- It had to use the stock washer fluid tank. I'll just be using washer fluid anyhow, I rarely use that tank, and there's no sense in adding another tank and more weight to the car.
- It had to be a progressive kit with a low boost/high boost setting for spraying. A real injector is neat, but I want something simple at least to start with, I don't need 3d tables to mess with at this time. I'm just adding this for extra cooling and safety, not for going for 600hp.
- The install had to be clean and neat, with good wiring.

First order of business was to get the parts. I ordered the tankless AEM water/meth kit, part number 30-3002, goes for a bit over $300 if you shop around. You get the pump, line, controller, nozzle with integrated check valve, and a ton of bolts, screws, and connectors.

For the washer tank, I spent about 2 hours test fitting, measuring, and measuring again to make SURE I cut ONCE. I have a nice NEW washer tank I got a year ago or so that's white and nice and I didn't want to screw it up! I measured everything with a micrometer (one from Harbor Freight, digital, cheap and works great) and taking notes on my measurements.

The AEM kit come with a 90 degree fitting for installing in the washer tank. Drill a hole in the top of the tank for the fitting. You use a short section of the 1/4" nylon tube for a "feed" tube going from the bottom to the fitting. Using the micrometer, I found the length I needed for the tube and cut it. Installing the fitting is a little tricky, you have to put the nut into the tank, get it onto the fitting with one finger, then tighten it up. It was tricky, but doable. Pictured is the location I found, it's out of the way of obstacles in the car, is easy to get to the inside with the fill tube hole next to it, and doesn't block anything else inside.





Next part took me a LONG time. I wanted a level sensor for the tank. If the fluid level ran low, the injection system will cut off and light a warning light. AEM doesn't supply one, so I ordered one from Devil's Own for about $25. I did a little digging trying to find a source for those senders (I'm sure they could be had for $5 or something) but wanted to get going.



The tank basically has 3 sides, the back (wheel) side, the inboard frame rail side, and the front side. The back wheel side is a no-go for the sender since the fender liner is right up against it. In theory you could cut a hole so it sticks out of the liner, but that puts it in possible contact with the wheel. It also sticks the wires out there, and I don't dig that. The inboard frame rail side has the primary front frame rail of the car right up against the tank - that's serious structural metal, and no way it's going there. That leaves the front. There's a small area that it can fit in between the oil cooler mount and part of the front frame of the car.

Knowing that, I had to figure out how high up in the tank it needed to go. Testing the Devil's Own sensor, I determined what point in the travel it triggered as empty with a multimeter - when the float gap was 6mm. 9mm is full open. Using that, I figured how high up it had to go, then looked for a place to mount it where it wouldn't interfere.



I found a PERFECT spot for it finally. On the side of the tank is >PP< showing that's it's made of polypropelene. If you measure 60mm to the left of the point in the first ">" sign, that's the center to drill at.



And, voila, you have it -



Hope this helps someone out! I'll have more in this thread as it marches along. I need to take pics of my pump setup and mounting location. I'm also waiting for some GOOD electrical connectors to come in, the crappy crimp connectors in the kit ain't hackin' it.

Dale

Double_J

iTrader: (28)

Great job!!! I have been wanting to get a custom tank in the spare well or tap an existing tank (front washer or rear).

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

One other tidbit I'm throwing in -

The new AEM pump has 2 straight in connectors for the 1/4" nylon hose. They're built into the pump so you can't swap them out for other connectors.

Where I'm planning on mounting my pump (more on that in the future) I need at least one, maybe 2 90 degree feeds into and from the pump. Since I can't change the fittings, I wanted to find some sort of fitting that would work.

So, I got these -



http://www.mcmaster.com/#51055K38

90 degree fittings, only $2.24 each. One side plugs into the quick disconnect on the pump, the other side has a quick disconnect for the hose.

The fitting is made of Acetal with a Buna-N O-ring. I wanted to be certain it wouldn't degrade with exposure to methanol, so I found this site -

http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/chemcomp.asp

Put in the material, then what you want compatibility with, and you get a result. Both materials have an "A-Excellent" compatibility rating, so I knew I was good. This is a handy site to have for making sure any fitting or part you're getting will work properly.

Not totally sure everything will all work together, but that's half the fun .

Dale

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Stupid question Dale. I'm assuming you are going to run 50/50 meth to water. Once the meth kicks in, what do you expect your AFRs to be? Can they still be measured the same way as in under WOT, they should be around 11? Does the meth change this equation any as in AFR should now be higher or not?

I ask because when I had my meth kit (AEM) installed, my AFRs went from 10.9 to 12 under WOT. I thought they would go down instead of up. I just found an injector issue so maybe this was it but thought I would ask the expert

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

I'm not sure to be honest - I"m still new to the water/meth game. I'll find out, though, soon enough .

BTW, for those of you unfamiliar with my car, I'm on sequential '99 spec twins, big IC, full exhaust, PFC, intake, Twinpower, etc. Aiming for about 350hp. I'm not going for huge numbers, just a fat torque band and lots of fun.

Dale

evot23

iTrader: (17)

I like where this is going Dale. A micrometer...really LOL.

colepalmer site is money...forgot that existed.

evot23

iTrader: (17)

It was my understanding that your AFR readings would be off given introduction of meth into the system. Isn't it that even if it is reading higher, its because of the Vout value difference in gas vs meth? In which case, depending on your meth/water mix, it could show values leaner or richer?

Getting that injector to fire should get the AFR richer but I think the wideband readings become less accurate and serve more as baselines for tuning vs having true AFR readings than if using gas alone.

AEM injection kit is proportional from what I remember meaning you should get appropriate dosage across the RPM vs just one set load.

We'll let Dale research and clear it all up for us Dave.

Eddie

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

I thought the same thing about the Mic. And then when I saw the pictures, all I could think was "That's not a Mic, that's a set of calipers..."

Very cool build Dale, and thanks again for letting me sit in your car at DGRR.

-Jim

rotorypolo

iTrader: (1)

very nice dale!!! Can't wait to follow thru with the progress and finish product!!

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Well, you learn something new every day . I always called it a "digital micrometer", but it's really a digital caliper. Here's the one I have -

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-...per-47257.html

Works VERY well. Goes through batteries pretty good, but it's SO handy for so many things. Well worth the $20.

The AEM kit lets you set a start boost/end boost for the injection, so at, say, 5psi, it will begin injecting (0% duty cycle) then at, say, 15psi, you are full open (100% duty cycle). Other kits use simple Hobbs switches that trigger at a set boost and immediately go full open - that's just bobo.

Dale

phrost

iTrader: (14)

yet again, another awesome dale clark thread, I plan on installing a water/meth kit soon as well, this will come in extremely handy.

GodSquadMandrake

Dale are you concerned about the tube losing contact with the fluid under g-forces? I suppose not since you said this is only for extra cooling and not for 600HP, but I thought I'd just ask in case you are tuning for it. After all this is meth.

Also exactly which light illuminates when the fluid is low? I'm just curious how your cockpit is setup.

chiefboon

Looking forward to pics of your final setup. Using the stock location and not mounting the reservoir inside the cabin is a big plus. Great thinking.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Are you talking about the level sender losing contact? It's a float, the end of it floats in water, as the level drops it drops. I believe I have it set where it will be lighting the warning at pretty much no fluid left.

In theory, G forces could mess with the float a bit. Since it's on the Y-axis of the car only accelaration/braking will affect it, not cornering. I'm also not doing track events with long stead state G loads. I think worst case it will prematurely light with the water sloshing around, it won't read that there's water when there actually isn't, and that's what's important.

The AEM controller has inputs for the water level sensor. When it trips, it will light an LED and also outputs a ground to use for whatever. The LED will be in my dual gauge pod on top of the dash, between the two gauges.

I'm going to experiment with hooking the ground output of the AEM box to the "scramble boost" input on my AVC-R boost controller. I can set it up so when that is triggered the boost controller will basically go to an "off" state, giving me 7-8 psi. That would be pretty slick!

I'm waiting for my connectors to arrive (hopefully today) before I start in on the wiring. Also, I'm leaving town Friday night/back Wednesday so some of Phase 2 of the project will be delayed.

Tonight I'll post up pics of the mount I made for the pump and how it's getting mounted, which is pretty slick .

Dale

Flyweight

iTrader: (1)

Its always nice to see something thought out and done right.

DriftDreamzSS

iTrader: (4)

I have the same kit, using the oem front washer tank as well, I like how simple it is. One thing that bummed me out was getting no fluid level sensor. A couple sites I read said that the 30-2002 came with EVERYTHING except the tank, so i figured i would get the sensor, nope. Other than that its been great, mounting the led by your gauge pod is a great idea. I have mine mounted in my column pod so while looking straight ahead I can view boost, rpm and AI status all at once.


Also, on mine the values on the dial for start psi and full psi didn't match up to boost #'s the car was making. I ended up putting regulated compressed air to the vac line on the controller and adjusted until the nozzle started spraying at my desired boost level.

mannykiller

iTrader: (93)

Looking forward to seeing how you mount everything!! I had a shop do mine a couple years ago and my pump literally bobbed up and down because their custom mount was mounted by a single screw and had the entire pump resting on a springy single piece of aluminum... I was embarrassed and felt horrible for not taking the time to do it myself. Therefore.. I'm re-doing it! Your Install couldn't have come at a better time!! WOOT!!

G's 3rd Gen

iTrader: (11)

Nice write up Dale. I am just about to install the aquamist 2d kit w/ injection amplifier. Thats a great idea place for the level light indicator. I am also going to use the washer tank 50/50 mix. This kit comes w/ everything needed and sprays variably off of injector millivolt ouput.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

OK, a bit more on this before I head out of town.

The feed nipple on the washer tank at the top needs to be sealed up water tight. When you fill the tank, you typically fill it all the way up the fill nozzle - the factory has it sealed with an O-ring where it meets the tank. If it's not sealed, it will leak out with a full tank and you'll be dripping washer fluid on the ground which makes you look bobo.

For mine, I found an O-ring that fit around the threaded part of the 90 deg. adapter. It sealed it about 80% of the way, and I had to fool with how tight the fitting was snugged up to get it to about 90% sealed. The last bit I put black RTV around the fitting - I used some toothpicks to smooth it around there.

At each attempt I filled the tank with water and verified it was sealed properly. Same goes for the level sensor. If you have even a tiny leak you'll see it instantly.

Another note - if you have to remove the stock washer fluid pump, plan on replacing the rubber seal between it and the tank. Ones I've seen are pretty blown out when you remove the pump - they seal fine until you pull it out. I believe they're available from Mazda.

And, if you wanna be baller, get a new washer tank. A nice, white, clean washer tank looks SO much better than that sad yellowed tank under the hood. I replaced both my overflow and washer tanks with new ones from Mazda, they weren't cheap (like $80-100 each?) but it's VERY nice.

OK, so on to the pump bracket. The location I picked is the driver's side frame rail underneath the steering column and just above the driver's motor mount. That location is low, it's on the cold side of the motor, there's space there, and the pump is protected from road hazards. On the frame rail is one threaded 10mm hole with a welded factory nut on the inside. Near it is another non-threaded hole that I got a 10mm Rivnut and installed there.



Rivnuts install like rivets - put into a blind hole, tighten it up so it swells/compresses, and there ya go, but it has threads in it so you can easily create threaded holes in thinner sheet metal. McMaster-Carr has them.

For the pump bracket, I got a thick and sturdy piece of sheet steel from Home Depot. After making a template, I made a simple 90 degree bracket. I used a vice and a hammer to bend it in half and make a nice tight bend.



I have it with the rubber "feet" for the pump facing down, in the above picture it's in the orientation it will be in the car. Only the rubber feet touch anything so it's vibration isolated. If it is in contact with something solid, the vibration will transfer to the car and with some pumps it can damage the pump over time.

The pump is bolted to the bracket with the long bolts/lock nuts that come with the kit. Washers (also in the kit) are on both sides.

Pic of the bottom of the bracket -



Another showing the mounting holes -



The bolts are just 2 10mm bolts (as in 10mm head size, 6mm shaft size). These aren't crazy heavy duty bolts but with it sandwiched against the frame rail I think it will hold just fine. Also, nothing is pushing or loading the bracket save the weight of the pump.

Since the bracket is regular mild steel it needed to be coated. I originally coated it with a few coats of spray on rubberized undercoating. Even after 24 hours it was VERY sticky and came off easily. I re-applied another coat of the undercoating, then primed it and sprayed black enamel paint on it. Seems to be much sturdier, hopefully this will keep the bracket from getting rusty. The bracket is IMPOSSIBLE to see so I wasn't too concerned with the cosmetics but I wanted it to look decent at least.

Finally, the 90 degree adapters I got from McMaster-Carr. Here's an example of one installed in the pump -



Again, it just pushes into the quick disconnect in the pump and has it's own quick disconnect for the tubing - for more on this read my post above.

That's all I have for now. I was hoping the electrical connectors would arrive today but no dice there. I'll be working on this more when I return, stay tuned for updates!

I'll try and check in while I'm out of town if there are questions.

Dale

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Nice, I remember re-doing mine last winter. I know all the kits come with those quick connect push in fittings, but i fount mine leaking at the nozzles on more than one occasion (after re-cutting all of the plastic tube ends perfectly square). They would be fine, and then after a few months I found methanol residue by the brake fluid resevoir and UIM/greddy elbow.

I switched everything over to -4AN braided line, no chance of leaking now. If you look up my DIY from last year, I think we put the fluid level sensor in the same exact spot.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

I've got the aquamist setup (looks like the same pump). How long are people finding the washer tank lasts? I got the 2.5 gallon rear tank so I didn't run out/have to fill up as often.

The aquamist comes with a gauge (i believe it meters flow) which is for the most part useless, and the level sensor will light a LED in the gauge. I like the simple single LED solution from above!!

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Pretty much every kit uses a shurflo pump, usually 2 options available either 150lb or 225lb I believe.

Last summer my tank lasted about a month. but depends on how much you drive, what level of boost it turns on at, and how big a vent you have (evaporation) .

whiteweazel21

iTrader: (2)

There any details on your setup floating around somewhere? How long does your tank last and what do you inject? Back at ya

Wow, lasts that long with the washer fluid tank? Ugh...why no one post their AI builds in the AI section. Seems so sparse and technical in there...need pictures lol

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

Yeah im surprised myself. I measured the volume of that tank, and it's 2/3 gallon (including the neck which will leak out if you fill it up past the union). If I remember correctly (and I may not) I think GoodfellasFD3S (Rich) said his tank would last a little under a track day (he may have had to refill between sessions). Being 2/3 gallon this wouldn't surprise me... and the stock rear tank is only 1/3 gallon so that's even more useless. In comparison the rear Euro tank is a whopping 2.5 gallons. I also dont like the fact that the neck of the stock washer tank is a "press fit" basically it leaks, and allows other junk in the tank. The tanks are also quite dirty and scaly from all the years of use... I wouldnt even consider using the stock front washer tank without an extremely thorough cleaning with CLR and a bottle brush, and silicone sealing the inside and outside of the filler neck with silicone.

As far as my setup, I can't comment on how long it lasts cause the car isn't finished (still) but knowing the front tank is .6 gallons and rear is about 2.5 gallons we can figure out how long the rear will last. It's honestly quite a nice tank, however I did search for literally a year and a half to get mine, and paid $550 + $70 shipping from the UK. Worth every penny though!! I can take pics if anyone is interested, but I HIGHLY recommend this tank for any AI setups.

-Heath

Barry Bordes

If you offset the light to the side it will give you a second "heads-up" indication in the tach.