baggedoutmazda

so before i get flamed i have a question about the e-bay intercoolers ppl speak of on here. i myself am very cautious of e-bay crap but i've been reading alot of different posts of ppl claiming to be using & making big hp on the ''cheap e-bay intercoolers'' so my question is stk or v-mount which of the cheap ones seem to be better, it's not like i want to cheap out, but if guys are making 400+hp & they work, than why not save a couple of bucks, thanks

Miata_mx5

It's not a question of if they work, it's a question of how well and how long.

We tested a banged up, abused Greddy V SPL vs a new ebay, and the car we tested it on made more power on the SPL.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Given the amount of money that it takes to get to 400 whp it is hard to imagine someone trying to save a few hundred bucks by buying an eBay intercooler.

There are lots of good used intercoolers to be found for $400 or so in the classifieds section - and, unlike the eBay stuff, they typically come with ducts. An intercooler without a duct is a fashion accessory only.

baggedoutmazda

i agree it's probably better to purchase a good name brand one, will perform & last longer, i'm just curious about why certain members on here with moded fd's are running cheap intercoolers, i keep reading different posts about intercoolers & it seems at least 1 person says just use the cheap ones, i would really like some input from members that run these cheap ones

MOBEONER

iTrader: (18)

you get what you pay for!.......

cabaynes

iTrader: (4)

Totally. Pay more up front for a quality part and you will save money in the long run.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Because they don't want to spend the money for a more expensive one. Period.

If you are looking for objective testing data on these intercoolers you will not find it - but you will find lots of subjective 'can't beat it for the money' comments.

Remember, many people running this intercooler are doing do without ducting - which will give you some sense of what weight to put on their opinion.

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

Bell Intercoolers is a good source for custom intercoolers fwiw

Montego

iTrader: (1)

Well I'm one of those folks that bought an ebay IC. and I'm using it with a single turbo. I bought the same size core as the ASP/PFS/Pettit LARGE. This how i rationalized it:

1) I have always believed that FD owners get ripped off when it comes to IC's. An IC is just an air radiator, nothing else. How can a radiator which by nature sees a much harsher enviroment (super hot coolant + much higher pressure) cost $1000 less? Dunno...
2) There is a duct available for the size of core that I bought
3) I don't believe the ebay IC is just as good, all I'm saying it gets the job done. If I was into hardcore autocrossing/road race then Im sure I would certainly reap the benefits of the more expensive cores.
4) I have a Power FC therefore I could monitor my intake temps. From the get go I told myself that if the IC was not adequate I would plump down the $$ for a more expensive unit that would be.


So far the IC works rather well. Actually better than my old PFS (the PFS is much smaller BTW). The true testament of an IC is how well it works under load (not cruising), with the PFS and after 4 WOT runs (12 psi with the stock twins + vented hood) my intake temps would be in the mid to high forties 40's C (starting around 35C). With this larger core (15 psi with single turbo + vented hood) my intake temps hover in the high 30's C (starting around 33C). Now by no means am I saying this is scientific, far from it actually. I stress that not only is this IC much larger than my old PFS, I am also using a single turbo which according to others runs cooler than the stock twins. What I am saying is that my setup works FOR ME.

M-

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

heat is the primary killer of rotaries. anything you can do to ease the BTUs pays dividends. skimp on wipers, not an intercooler which is only part (though an important part) of your heat reduction journey. dual oil coolers and AI come immediately to mind as worthy additions.

if you do the right things you will be in a situation like me... My four year motor was running perfectly so i pulled and disassembled it last week.

I had sort of forgotten the drill as it has been four years. after over 100 2000-8000 4th gear dyno runs and 14,000 miles making 498 rwhp curiosity won out.

After complete forensics I found a happy motor. clean rotors, only one thousandth of side seal wear, happy apex seals... Add new springs and reassemble.

rotaries are reliable if you build them and fixture them right. they also make alot of power.

back to your IC. my ace tuner Luke Stubbs at Beyond Redline in Green Bay mentioned this summer that he is seeing lots of chinese ICs and to avoid them. Luke found alot of pressure drop and a lack of cooling on a couple that were on customer cars. i am merely relating something someone else said take it as you wish. i greatly respect Luke's opinions and he wasn‘t selling me an IC.

bottom line on intercoolers for me is the core needs to be made by Spearco. and yes, ASP and M2 are. probably Pettit’s too.

I often shoot my input and output of my IC and generally find a 130 degree difference!

i do have a couple of comments re post 9. to the poster... thanks for your helpful contribution, that's what this Board is all about. further, your IC may work great.

that said, comparing a water radiator to an air to air IC is not apples/apples. sure they remove heat. that's where it ends. my IC weighs over 20 pounds! it is made entirely differently than a radiator. It is not surprising that ICs generally cost more than radiators.

Also, comparing IAT between the OEM turbosystem, which is one of the greatest mass produced thermal disasters of the 20th century, to a single setup, even at reduced boost is highly speculative. the twins produce heat first and boost second.

Might it be possible to find a better value in an IC? Could be but... as I think about it there are a lot of items that IMO fall into the category of “shouldn’t speculate on” while in the process of building out your FD.

Finally, I really like the standard location IC. The last thing you need to do is put a fragile, heavy IC in the front of your car. take a look at the poor old fins on your oil cooler.

FMICs reduce overall cooling by blocking the air flow to your radiator. As anyone who road races will tell you FMs don’t work. If you just tool around or drag race sure they will function albeit at reduced efficiency.

good luck,

howard coleman

SENZA PARI

I do generally agree that you do get what you pay for, however we're making 619 rwhp on a $110 Ebay intercooler ( I'm sure the OP's quote "using a cheap Ebay intercooler" comes directly from a post of our motor).
The construction is solid, and being an experienced welder, have no problem patching or reworking an entank should a weld fail over time....which I really don't see happening.
This motor also made slightly more power with this IC and piping than it did previously with a Greddy IC. I don't remember the exact psi at which the old setup was dyno'd at, Jason could chime in on that.
Not bashing the Greddy or any other IC at all, this just happens to be my personal experience.

theorie

iTrader: (31)

+1

i'm using an "ebay intercooler" - same size as the pettit coolcharge III. works great.

baggedoutmazda

well it looks like i may have to flip a coin on this one lol, ok so on the intercooler topic i'm torn between v-mount & stk mount, if i go v-mount i will be building the setup my self, & yes i know how much work will be involved, ducting/rad/piping etc, so is v-mount worth the trouble? i'm still running stk turbos, basic bolt ons, no big hp, just if v-mount will help cool, then i will go that way, opinions please

MOBEONER

iTrader: (18)

my opinion.my rx7 is a beautiful well engineered machine,its one of the best cars made of its category.with that said i don't care if i get ripped off,i will not install anything on my car not proven by repudiable people or shops who build and race rx7s on regular basis...there is no short cuts in life and there shouldn't be any on your car ether

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

fmic's don't work in road racing?

do you mean in general, or just on the FD? Cos the (stock) giant FMIC on my GTR works great.

the stock intercooler is tiny and sucks.

if I wasn't spending the coin, I'd rather have a $$$$ intercooler, but the ebay ones will work fine for most people.

Maybe if "proper" ones weren't overpriced.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

IIRC the stock FMIC on the Skyline is known for being a ******* beast! Those things really don't *need* to be upgraded until you're at about the 600whp mark.

primerGrey

iTrader: (13)

Starting with stock components and the goal of spending $1000-1500 bucks to reduce AITs, it is worth considering what would work better - a) an ebay intercooler with a Pettit duct and a vented hood, or b) an expensive intercooler and duct.

I don't know the answer - just noting that money saved may be more effectively spent elsewhere.

Rx7_Nut13B

iTrader: (1)

Most of the Ebay IC are well constructied, and made from the same alum as others. I have to admit that some Ebay intercoolers I have seen dont have the inner fins, but MOST do, this is where the ebay IC get there bad names from.

It really doesnt take that much money to make 400hp reliable, you just have to do it yourself and work with what you have.

The Ebay SMIC did get a bad name just because they didnt have ducts, but you can make a workable duct for under 100 bucks.

The reason why that one person says use a EBay on is because they have done there homework, most people on this fourm dont, they just give there opnions and do have any proof that they are bad. The Jason Owner of RX7STORE.com has personally said on this fourm that they have made over 600hp with Ebay IC and with name brands ones with no difference.

Yea you do, if you go to get a drug from a doctor and he says he is going to give you a genaric version of the name brand drug do you complain......NO because it is the same thing as the name brand but just cheaper. This works the same for the ebay stuff. Also if you buy a 100 Ebay IC and the name brand was 1000 you just found 900 dollars to buy more parts for your car, it is a win-win

I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!

I am running a 90 dollar ebay front mount and a 80 ebay HKS Knockoff Wastegate (10K miles running 16psi of boost) that hasnt failed, I did re lube the thing and install one gasket where it was leaking ever so slighty, but it doesnt matter if it leaks a little, hell you are making the air to open it. I also have a 23 dollar ebay short shifter that after i regreesed it works fine.

My final thought, ebay stuff isnt all bad, there are a few companies out there they give everything a bad name, do you HOMEWORK by looking at the part closely and then make a adult decision. And to the people that havent ever used a ebay IC or any Ebay part, please dont comment, you dont have a clue on the matter.

There are some parts that require high quilty parts but others dont, I havent ever used one of the ebay turbos but someday I will, just to see, for 250 bucks what do you have to loose, and dont say your motor, because the turbo compresor wheel would never make it thru the IC totally.

My .02

impactwrench

The logic in price = quality does'nt always work. Ebay intercooler user for 4 years and proud of it.

rx7plus8

I've got a ebay FMIC and i haven't installed it yet... i was wondering if i can still keep my A/C with his kit?

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

who knows, probably not

post some pictures or info and we can tell you.

Rx7_Nut13B

iTrader: (1)

It depends on a number of things, Airflow, Air temp outside, Air temp inside IC, Size of IC and Rad.

Think of it this way, if you have 3 towels lined up from top to bottom, and pour water onto the top one, how much water does it take just to get the bottom one wet. Same thing with a front Mount IC/AC/Rad setup. You need a Bigger mount (more water) to push more air thru the layers to get the bottom one as wet as the top one.

You would be better doing a V-Mount or SMIC to keep the AC, unless you do the supporting things to do a Front Mount

It can be done, but you have to design it correctly

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

I'm running an ebay cooler, putting down 400+ and my charge temps have always been under 50c under boost. This with the stock sensor relocated to TB elbow. Howard i would think that running meth injection you could get by with just about any intercooler, maybe even no intercooler?

TT_FD_Scott

http://www.rx7store.net/ProductDetai...spec&CartID=10

NeverDieEasy

iTrader: (5)

My last car made 575whp on an e bay cooler, put 20,000miles on it with no issues