Savington

Owners of both, discuss. If you were looking for 400rwhp, which route would you go and why? Which route DID you go, and why?

Gamezilla

T78 single.

/discussion

widebody2

I had BNR stage 2 non seq and switched to single because I was unhappy with their lag. Maybe I would have liked them seq....the power was good

Railgun

Single. 35R (or 35/40...it's all semantics now).

Simplify everything.

FD from R1

Simplify everything

that's the best reason right there.....400 peak hp won't do much good if you can't get it to the ground and/or it's difficult to modulate....aside from breaking parts

the single set-up is so clean under the hood, that's what I like about it

Savington

How big is the price gap between the two? Are Brian's turbos decently priced? Aren't most 35/40 or T78 kits one-offs, or custom? You can probably have a shop build one, but what's the fab work on one of those cost?

AgentSpeed

I went stage 3 non-seq from BNR. Can't really say anything about them yet...new engine and new turbos. Once the motor is broke in, I'll post a dyno sheet after it gets tuned.l

93BlackFD

let me just say...

i have yet to see BNR stage 3's do over 400rwhp in person, and nobody has ever shown any videos of dynos for proof or anything

i personally think it's BS, and a bunch of hype

Montego

iTrader: (1)

I have neither but I can input this.

You live in Cali. If a cop pulls you over and opens your hood, you are in deep s**t. Good luck in putting back in all of your components and geting it reinspected/ paying the fine. Just too much risk.

radkins

Enviromental ****'s! That's why I don't like Cali.

Single turbo all the way!

SPOautos

Ohhhh, so now a dyno sheet isnt enough, people want to actually see a video of the dyno. What difference would that make? If the dyno was manipulated to show scewed results what difference would it make if you has a video of the monitor or not? Its going to show the same thing as the printout...no matter if they are scewed or not.

Which btw - They were NOT scewed, the dyno sheets floating around on the forum that are from way back when (about 18months ago) were accurate and real. I should know......it was my car and I paid for the dyno. In addition I also provided 1/4 mph that backed up the claim...especially considering I had almost a full tank of gas AND my stereo stuff, spare tire, jack, blah blah blah all still in the car when I trapped 125mph. With all that removed it would have been prob 126-127.

This was all on 93 octane pump gas and I drove the car exactly like that boost and all for a full year and 10-12K miles before my stock bov let go during a full boost run in 4th gear causing it to over spool the turbo running them WAY out of thier efficiency range and superheating the air....which lead to the death of my engine.

So what if no one else ever made the numbers, I dont recall anyone else ever saying that they got all the bugs out of thier car and turned up the boost. In addition the IC setup plays a large roll in being able to make those numbers. If your running a IC with a lot of pressure drop then your prob not going to make those numbers bacause the turbos are going to be close to going out of thier effieciency range. I see people make 390rw and 450rw with the same single turbo and supposedly at the same boost all the time. Its because its rare to see someones car really run and be setup and functioning the way its supposed to. I've been to enough dyno sessions with Steve Kan to know that. There is nothing freak about my car, it just runs good cause I take my time and do everything right and dont just buy a bunch of mismatched junk to slap it together in hopes that it works.

STEPHEN

artguy

you also thought it was a good idea to use a tshirt for an air filter.

but you were wrong then too.

after two plus years chasing the sequential dream, I eventually went single. It is so much easier to deal with. non seq is nothing compared to a nice single. sequential on the other hand...i still love sequential twins. It is up to you man...you want simple..good power...less **** to break...go single...you want a little more complex machine with good low end umpf (well for a rotary anyhow) then go with the seq twins.


j

j

93BlackFD

you guys crack me up, i made a simple statement, that BNR has sold many sets of stage 3 turbo kits, and nobody has yet to backup stephen/rich's numbers....it's odd, isn't it? and rich/stephen both had engine failures....unrelated to the turbos of course

you can attack me, which is not the issue, but I was making a statement to support why I would recommend the single

i see the stage 3 BNR's for sale on the forums all the time; however, I do not see people other than rich/stephen bragging about dynographs and setting records

artguy

there arent many nice fd's left anymore. most of them are just old broken junk.

if you spoke from experience you would understand how difficult it is to build a fully modified car of 400rwhp and above. twins or otherwise.

its not just the turbos that will get you there...or not.

there are few nice fd's that are kicking ***. single or not. half the guys in the single turbo section have broken fd's too. Hell, mine is at the shop now and Ive dumped thousands into going single. It aint my turbo that is giving me headaches. ...a slipping clutch and faulty aem ignition is keeping me off the dyno. does that mean my turbo isnt or wont perform to spec?

as stephen said...there are a lot of peeps running t78's yet there are a handful with dyno sheets over 460rwhp. there are just as many in the 300's as not. A good setup is not easy to build.

It takes a ton of dedication to get a reliable car over 400rwhp....or owning a shop. It becomes more than a hobby...it took me a year and a half to build my m2 twin machine and to get it close to right and balance everything out. It spent time in the best shops with the best people...yet always there were issues. whether it was me wrenching on it or xs or rrr, never were the upgraded turbos my issue.

its cool you built your own motor...perhaps now you can build a car that pushes past 400rwhp and stays reliable for any given period of time. Rich and Steven have done that within a few hp or surpassed it in as in the case of spoautos. til then...respect your enthusiast elders mr tshirt man. There are maybe five of us on the forums who built twin running cars which run these kinds of numbers. The rest are in mid project, failures, or just plain ole junk.


J

93BlackFD

i don't appreciate your jests, i haven't said anything agressive to anyone, other than the fact that there is a lot of talk, and a lot of broken cars

i'm running a half bridge on stock turbos, with my own goals, so what if i post dyno sheets over 400rwhp and then tell you that i drive my car to work everyday when it's not raining....do i win your respect then?

i'm not in this for respect, or admiration, and i think a lot of people are damn near happy with 300-350rwhp, i know that when I run 10psi, i'm damn happy

not everyone is looking for a ***** extension when they sit in their car, but good look to you and your quest

POM HB

Ok guys....let's be nice and stay on subject before it gets too nasty, huh?

artguy

well....when you have more experience, you will find that you wont have to say things like that which started this whole conversation.

as far as what you need to do to win respect....car wise...just back up your statements with personal experience rather than just being inflammatory.

that is what i should have said the first time. giving you a hard time was just the easiest way to say it. I mean those guys were pimping two of the fastest cars on the forums by the time you even discovered this place. stephens finished bnr twin machine was proof that you could get single turbo power out of a twin turbo car and not have to lose your low end. He had the widest power band of any car on the forums with that setup.

I have no doubt your car will be a thing of beauty if you build it all yourself and put in all the necessary time to do it right.

btw...why do a half bridge if you arent going to push high numbers? 330 so can be achieved with more low end on a stock port or mild street port, exhaust, dp, ecu, catback combo. whats the point?

your point was not about broken cars...it was about upgraded twins being bs. my point was you have no idea what you are talking about. so put a shirt in it.




j

FD from R1

btw...why do a half bridge if you arent going to push high numbers? 330 so can be achieved with more low end on a stock port or mild street port, exhaust, dp, ecu, catback combo. whats the point?

exactly....these cars are a heck of alot of fun with 330 at the wheels, running stock sequential twins....much more than that and you have to unload a ton of cash, reliability nose dives, stuff breaks, and you can't hook up anyway

I don't see the magic 400 number as anything more than an ego boost....with 330 these cars will destroy 98% of the cars on the road anyway....well, the new C6 and Mustang Cobra may change that a little

93BlackFD

artguy, i'm just going to PM you.....

why do a half bridge when i can follow the crowd and believe everyone else who is running remans about the power potential of a half bridge? we'll see

FD from R1

don't knock the remans

good ol Ernie T ran 10s on a (non ported) reman...

93BlackFD

i'll knock remans all day long

lately they suck, the counterweights aren't balaned, the rotors are mismatched, the seals won't hold 13psi, they use pan gaskets

FD from R1

my street ported reamn has none of those problems and runs strong

SPOautos

But at what point does it go from being "hype" to being real? The ONLY thing people talk about are real and proven numbers, whats hype about that. Having a dyno sheet then having track numbers to back it up is factual, its real and all the numbers jive. Fact is like Artguy said, its difficult to get everything together and running right. Even when people get good dyno numbers half the time its short lived before they start to have problems and they never get track times out of it. Do a post in the single turbo section and find out how many 3rd gens on the forum have trapped 125 or better on pump gas....you know what your gong to find? Barely any at all, matter of fact I think there are only about 5 and 3 of those people (including myself) had some form of stock twins. What does that say about singles? Does that mean that to BNR upgrades are better than all of those singles that no one has track numbers on cause they cant back thier stuff up and they are all hype? NO, of course not...it just means its real rare for someone to get thier car in the condition that it needs to be in to get good dyno number AND track numbers to back it up. It has nothing to do with BNR twins, there are very few people that have good high hp dyno numbers and track numbers period...no matter what turbos are on thier car.

And for the record I wasnt happy with 300-350rwhp....I was there years ago. My next goal is 130+mph traps on pump gas....and yea I'll still drive it to work all the time just like I did in the past.

STEPHEN

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

within the next month I am going to tune at ~17 psi, and plan on going to the 1/4 mile strip to see what trap speeds I can get. I have a good bud here locally who is running the old style BNR 3s sequentially, and I will try to get him to the dyno and strip as well.

Bottom line, I feel that making 400 rwhp on pump gas is tough to do, and even tougher to do for a long period of time. You are left with no margin for error. Tuning, fuel system, ignition system, motor internals, everything has to be spot-on.

As stated above 330 to the ground is enough to crush almost anything on the road. I make that at 11 psi. I plan on leaving my profec on 'low boost' more often than 'high boost' from now on. Maybe once I get my h2o inj installed a will rip around at 17 psi all the time like I used to

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Btw Brian, I see you posting on here but you still haven't responded to my PM. I don't appreciate being ignored. What's the deal?

Rich