dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

I installed new throwout and pilot bearings, and now when the car is cold it makes a rotating whugawhugawhuga sound with the clutch pedal IN.

1) Could I have not greased one of them enough? I put a layer on all the areas the FSM showed, but there could always be more.
2) Which is more likely to have a problem immediately? (Installation mistake, or needing break-in?)

Dave

GARCO MOTORWORKS

Sitting still ,the clutch in ,the clutch plate will coast to a stop with the t-o bearing . The input shaft is not turning but the flywheel is spinning .So the pilot bearing is spinning with the input shaft sitting a rest .You may have damaged the pilot bearing and seal when you pushed the input shaft into place .I have seen this done on several cars that I have repaired after some one did a clutch job . I have never put one in that needed break in .

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Thanks, that makes sense. I did have a little trouble getting the tranny aligned and popped in, now that I think about it. The noise continues at least 5 seconds without slowing down, but I'll test it again and listen specifically for that.

Guess I'll put in another PB and seal.

Dave

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

the throwout bearing is turning with the clutch in as it is in heavy contact w the clutch fingers which are bolted to the clutch cover which is bolted to the flywheel which is bolted to the spinning e shaft. therefore it is possible that the throwout bearing could be the source of noise. if it is the t-o bearing you would hear immediate noise as soon as the clutch pedal runs out of free play and engages.

the input shaft does coast to a stop and does spin within the pilot bearing. if it is the pilot bearing there will be a very short delay before you hear the noise upon engagement.

one other item that might be a cause.... if any of the friction material on your disc is loose it is possible for it to drag against the flywheel or clutch plate and make a noise... this would also cause a slight problem selecting a gear.

since it is highly probable that the t-o bearing and pilot bearings (new) were in perfect condition before installation...

most probable...

(1) a damaged the pilot bearing upon installation of the trans.
(2) a dragging clutch disc
(3) a defective t-o bearing....... highly improbable

let us know what you find,

howard coleman

howard coleman

John Magnuson

I think I had a similar problem once after putting in a new clutch and related hardware. It only happened when the car was cold and t did go away after a couple of weeks.

It's also possible it's your transmission and not your clutch.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Thanks everyone. I really doubt it's the clutch disc, it was in excellent shape.

I'm going to order new pilot bearing and seal - thank goodness I can borrow the puller again without too much trouble. (Paging zkeller!). Assembling the tranny I had to monkey around a little bit until it popped in, and I forgot about that fact until you guys reminded me.

Dave

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

if you are installing the trans to the engine while in the car the key is to tilt the motor down to the rear. loosen the motor mounts etc....

howard coleman

DaveW

The described character of your noise (sounds like light dragging once per rotation) possibly suggests an uneven surface condition (rust, material pick-up, warpage, etc.) of the pressure-plate or flywheel.

Do you feel any uneveness during slow engagement? If so the above is likely the cause.

If it is just rust, it will wear off. The other things may require disassembly to correct.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

It might just need a little driving to settle in. I'd give the car a decent spin around the block and see if it's still acting up.

Dale

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

DaveW: the clutch has been engaging quite smoothly. I still suspect I may have dinged the pilot bearing seal or pilot bearing on installation. The clutch is used and already broken in.

Dale: it's got 300mi since the bearings were replaced. Noise has settled a little bit, but not gone away yet.

Howard: I supported the engine by tying the front hanger (near the alternator) to the R1 strut bar, and will probably do the same again. Can I use a jack to tilt the front of the engine upward? Is the oil pan strong enough to tilt the weight of the engine?

Thanks everyone.

Dave

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

I've had tricky tranny installs in an FD before - just used an engine hoist on the front engine hanger . The engine has a tendency to sag forwards with the tranny out of the car, since the mounts are at the rear of the motor. It's worse if the mounts are a little tired.

I wouldn't use a jack to bring the motor up - that's just too risky.

Dale

DaveW

Just a thought - since the pilot bearing is under little load and is very small, I wouldn't think you could hear it unless it were really destroyed, and no matter how bad the pilot bearing seal, you wouldn't ever hear that, you'd just lose grease or get dirt in the bearing.

Makes more sense to me that there is someting wrong with the TO bearing or the way it is seating under load.

Another possibility is that somehow you bent the input shaft while doing the installation, but that noise would disappear as the shaft stopped turning, similar to what would happen if it were a bad input bearing.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Good points. I'll make sure to check out the input shaft very carefully - if it's the input shaft, it may just be that the main bearing is slightly cocked in the housing bore. That could happen perhaps before the shaft would bend.

If the T/o bearing has an issue, I will probably see where the shaft was contacting the bearing. It looks to me that the inside of the throwout bearing should not touch the input shaft at all.

Dave

mgoddard1

I did the same thing when I dropped the transmission to fix the 5th gear synchro and put a new clutch in. The only way to get it line back up was to lift the engine from the front hangar since it sagged forward.

mad_7tist

it could be all of the things mentioned above but dont mis diagnose a noisy input or output shaft bearing noise for a to or pilot. put a 2x4 under the pan and dont lift at the oil drain plug and you will be fine

miatrx

I thought you might be interested to know that I had exactly the same symptom: noise with clutch in. It just started out of the blue last week. I took out the tranny a couple of days ago and have been messing with the 5th gear synchro problems. Yesterday I got the pilot bearing puller and took out the bearing. It was starting to fail. The grease on it was gone and the seal was deformed. The metal between two of the rollers had worn away and the rollers were loose. Throwout bearing, fork wedge collar and ring looked good. I will be replacing the T/O as a precaution since I hope I won't have to go in again any time soon.

The clutch was put in by the PO when he dropped in a reman around 8K ago just, before I bought the car. Looks like a similar situation to yours anyway.

Tom