bad reman from mazda and boost issues
02-27-06, 03:25 PM
#1
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bad reman from mazda and boost issues
I finally got my engine in and sorted out about a month or so ago only to find lingering white smoke coming from the tailpipe. Oh yeah, it smells like coolant. Well, I took it to the dealer for a diagnostic and they found it to be leaking coolant internally. I am getting a new one free of charge, but I have to do all the labor again myself. I think mazda likes to kick me in the nuts. Anyway, now that I don't have to worry about breaking it in, I am giving it full boost. Now I see that I have some other problems on my hands. First, when I start the engine, it doesn't go up to 3000 rpm like it should. It sits at like 1500-2000 rpm for awhile, then it hunts between 1000 to 1200 rpm. When it is up to operating temps, it idles fine at about 900. Also, it hesitates really bad whenever I give it gas while cruising. From a stop, it doesnt really hesitate that bad. Sometimes I get no boost, sometimes I get like 7 psi. I am thinking that I might have a vacuum leak, although I was pretty thorough when I put it together. I know that I took the fuel pressure solenoid out of the loop. I just left it plugged in and plumbed the pressure regulator directly to the manifold because I had a broken solenoid and figured it wouldn't matter. It could also be the wastegate control or something. I can hear the turbos spool up when I give it gas, but when the car falls on its face, I can't hear the turbos anymore. It is a really erratic problem and can happen in pretty much any situation, or not happen at all. All I know is that I can't get the second turbo to come on b/c I am just not getting enough boost. Also, when I started it today, I didn't have the hunting problem. It is like 70 degrees outside today, and when I had the problem before, it was colder. Finally, I was wondering if an aftermarket boost controller does away with the wastegate control and turbo precontrol solenoids or if the two work together. Any suggestions?
02-27-06, 04:16 PM
#5
BOOOYAHHHH!
wow.... no need to be ********* to the guy. My only suggestion is. When you pull the motor again. have a FSM or printout of the vaccum diagram at hand.. Follow it closely. Sorry i cant be more helpfull.
02-27-06, 04:22 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I just switched the connectors for boost control and turbo precontrol and now I get a 10-8-10 pattern. I still get a strong hesitation though. It also doesn't always want to give me any boost. Could it be because of the fuel pressure solenoid?
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02-27-06, 05:54 PM
#8
Rotary Freak
That sucks ***! I'd be so pissed that Mazda sent you a shitty motor. You should beat the **** out of this one and see just how much boost she'll take
. Send it back to them in pieces.
I'm sorry that I can't be of help to you, as I haven't done the R&R myself(yet).
. Send it back to them in pieces.I'm sorry that I can't be of help to you, as I haven't done the R&R myself(yet).
02-27-06, 06:12 PM
#9
Originally Posted by RX7Wishing
My only suggestion is. When you pull the motor again. have a FSM or printout of the vaccum diagram at hand.. Follow it closely. Sorry i cant be more helpfull.
"When you pull the motor again, use the FSM"
& IM the ********?
02-27-06, 06:19 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by Sled Driver
Gee, great advice...........
"When you pull the motor again, use the FSM"
& IM the ********?
"When you pull the motor again, use the FSM"
& IM the ********?
02-27-06, 06:47 PM
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Aren't we a helpful bunch .
Turn the idle screw under the elbow (attached to throttlebody) clockwise 1/4-1/2 turn to stop the idle hunt when it's cold. This is usually necessary when improving air flow to the engine with intake or exhaust mods.
Check and add ground wires. Do a search for grounding problems. This may or may not take care of the hesitation but is a good idea anyway. Adding a PowerFC usually helps hesitation problems as well as being able to control boost better.
Make sure the car is completely warmed up before boosting. There is a set of double throttle plates that will remain partially closed and limit boost below 80 degrees celcius.
Check the check valves in the rats nest by blowing through them. You should be able to blow through them in one direction and not the other. The solenoids should be checked also but are more involded. Do searches to find out more.
You shouldn't need a boost controller for the stock twins. They also won't control primary boost. Save your money and buy a PowerFC which should control boost better and is safer with mods.
.Turn the idle screw under the elbow (attached to throttlebody) clockwise 1/4-1/2 turn to stop the idle hunt when it's cold. This is usually necessary when improving air flow to the engine with intake or exhaust mods.
Check and add ground wires. Do a search for grounding problems. This may or may not take care of the hesitation but is a good idea anyway. Adding a PowerFC usually helps hesitation problems as well as being able to control boost better.
Make sure the car is completely warmed up before boosting. There is a set of double throttle plates that will remain partially closed and limit boost below 80 degrees celcius.
Check the check valves in the rats nest by blowing through them. You should be able to blow through them in one direction and not the other. The solenoids should be checked also but are more involded. Do searches to find out more.
You shouldn't need a boost controller for the stock twins. They also won't control primary boost. Save your money and buy a PowerFC which should control boost better and is safer with mods.
02-27-06, 07:25 PM
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'the core is going back so i'm going to nail it with a messed up coolant seal'
now, that is OUTSTANDING logic.
lets translate - that coolant leak is going to cause premature failure of the apex seals which could go out via your turbos. Mazda isn't going to pay for those turbos so i wouldn't go all that crazy just yet.
oh, and the hunting... if you've got coolant leaking internally, you've also got compression gases entering the coolant rather than offering full combustion strokes - that'll cause some hunting issues as the ECU trie to compensate the idle i'd say.
now, that is OUTSTANDING logic.
lets translate - that coolant leak is going to cause premature failure of the apex seals which could go out via your turbos. Mazda isn't going to pay for those turbos so i wouldn't go all that crazy just yet.
oh, and the hunting... if you've got coolant leaking internally, you've also got compression gases entering the coolant rather than offering full combustion strokes - that'll cause some hunting issues as the ECU trie to compensate the idle i'd say.
02-27-06, 09:47 PM
#14
Rotary Freak
Originally Posted by weetbix13
'the core is going back so i'm going to nail it with a messed up coolant seal'
now, that is OUTSTANDING logic.
lets translate - that coolant leak is going to cause premature failure of the apex seals which could go out via your turbos. Mazda isn't going to pay for those turbos so i wouldn't go all that crazy just yet.
oh, and the hunting... if you've got coolant leaking internally, you've also got compression gases entering the coolant rather than offering full combustion strokes - that'll cause some hunting issues as the ECU trie to compensate the idle i'd say.
now, that is OUTSTANDING logic.
lets translate - that coolant leak is going to cause premature failure of the apex seals which could go out via your turbos. Mazda isn't going to pay for those turbos so i wouldn't go all that crazy just yet.
oh, and the hunting... if you've got coolant leaking internally, you've also got compression gases entering the coolant rather than offering full combustion strokes - that'll cause some hunting issues as the ECU trie to compensate the idle i'd say.
BTW, what is Mazda expecting (requiring) you to return to them, an engine that is in need of a minor rebuild, or an engine that is no longer rebuildable?
If it is the former, they may give you another core charge? I don't know if that is the case, but you should check it out before you destroy the new engine through abuse.
Last edited by BLKTOPTRVL; 02-27-06 at 09:50 PM.
02-27-06, 10:27 PM
#15
Out of curiosity, did you get your motor from Ray Crowe @ Malloy? Did you observe a "proper break-in"? What ECU/aftermarket engine management are you running? Is/was it tuned (for the latter)? Sorry to hear of your loss. I was planning on getting a reman myself, and your misfortune concerns me. :ugh:
02-27-06, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by weetbix13
'the core is going back so i'm going to nail it with a messed up coolant seal'
now, that is OUTSTANDING logic.
lets translate - that coolant leak is going to cause premature failure of the apex seals which could go out via your turbos. Mazda isn't going to pay for those turbos so i wouldn't go all that crazy just yet.
oh, and the hunting... if you've got coolant leaking internally, you've also got compression gases entering the coolant rather than offering full combustion strokes - that'll cause some hunting issues as the ECU trie to compensate the idle i'd say.
now, that is OUTSTANDING logic.
lets translate - that coolant leak is going to cause premature failure of the apex seals which could go out via your turbos. Mazda isn't going to pay for those turbos so i wouldn't go all that crazy just yet.
oh, and the hunting... if you've got coolant leaking internally, you've also got compression gases entering the coolant rather than offering full combustion strokes - that'll cause some hunting issues as the ECU trie to compensate the idle i'd say.
I misread the original post and thought the engine was already replaced. Ignore my previous advise.
02-27-06, 11:34 PM
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I'll try to respond to these in order.
1. Yes, I got the engine from Ray at Malloy. The coolant problems were apparent immediately. I've only put 30 miles on the engine. I run the stock ecu w/ basic reliability mods and an apex-i intake. I still recommend buying a reman from him though. The price is unbeatable and I got a warranty didn't I? Ray even said that he hadn't had any warranty claims on engines for a long time.
2. The coolant leak is only very slight at this point. I was breaking it in just fine until today. I primed the engine before starting it. I'm not destroying it either, I was just boosting it a few times to test the systems. I'm not even driving the thing anywhere except around the block. A new engine is already on it's way and the old one will come out this week. I don't think i'll have any problems w/ mazda being dicks. What's up with some people's damn attitude anyway? If you can't offer any constructive criticism, then mind your business. These boards are meant for us to help each other out, not flame the first person you misguidedly don't agree with. I'm not some damn slouch or moron anyway.
3. The fuel filter is brand new, as is pretty much everything else. The injectors were cleaned and blueprinted by RC. Every critical sensor was replaced. The only weak spot may be the pump, which was fine when I last drove the car regularly almost 3 years ago. I'll check fuel pressure.
4. I'll try messing with the fast idle screw. I cleaned up all the ground points in the engine bay, but I may end up adding more. I always warm up the car completely before I give it boost. All the check valves are new. I bought the viton ones from a prominent member on this board, but I can't remember his name. It was only $20 for 4. I know how to check the solenoids and will do it when I do the next swap. I guess I just got lazy the last time. A Power FC is my next investment.
5. I'm not planning on destroying this engine for obvious warranty issues.
Lastly, I used the FSM and vaccum diagram, but I guess I may have made a mistake. I tried to be thorough w/ everything, but I will be more so this next time. I'll end up replacing the FPR solenoid to be safe. Thanks to almost everyone who responded.
1. Yes, I got the engine from Ray at Malloy. The coolant problems were apparent immediately. I've only put 30 miles on the engine. I run the stock ecu w/ basic reliability mods and an apex-i intake. I still recommend buying a reman from him though. The price is unbeatable and I got a warranty didn't I? Ray even said that he hadn't had any warranty claims on engines for a long time.
2. The coolant leak is only very slight at this point. I was breaking it in just fine until today. I primed the engine before starting it. I'm not destroying it either, I was just boosting it a few times to test the systems. I'm not even driving the thing anywhere except around the block. A new engine is already on it's way and the old one will come out this week. I don't think i'll have any problems w/ mazda being dicks. What's up with some people's damn attitude anyway? If you can't offer any constructive criticism, then mind your business. These boards are meant for us to help each other out, not flame the first person you misguidedly don't agree with. I'm not some damn slouch or moron anyway.
3. The fuel filter is brand new, as is pretty much everything else. The injectors were cleaned and blueprinted by RC. Every critical sensor was replaced. The only weak spot may be the pump, which was fine when I last drove the car regularly almost 3 years ago. I'll check fuel pressure.
4. I'll try messing with the fast idle screw. I cleaned up all the ground points in the engine bay, but I may end up adding more. I always warm up the car completely before I give it boost. All the check valves are new. I bought the viton ones from a prominent member on this board, but I can't remember his name. It was only $20 for 4. I know how to check the solenoids and will do it when I do the next swap. I guess I just got lazy the last time. A Power FC is my next investment.
5. I'm not planning on destroying this engine for obvious warranty issues.
Lastly, I used the FSM and vaccum diagram, but I guess I may have made a mistake. I tried to be thorough w/ everything, but I will be more so this next time. I'll end up replacing the FPR solenoid to be safe. Thanks to almost everyone who responded.
02-28-06, 07:22 AM
#18
Even though it says mazda, the reman is built by some shop here in the states. Who knows what mechanic in some shop put the motor together.
This is the reason why when I got my motor, I wanted to see the engine run before putting it in my car. Very very few engine builders in this country will do such a thing before giving you an engine. My builder does that.. PureMdMa on the forum will be getting his engine by the same builder. He was here last weekend watched his engine being cranked on the engine stand. It just gives you piece of mind when you put it in.
Unfortunately, he builds limited number of rotary engines per year.
This is the reason why when I got my motor, I wanted to see the engine run before putting it in my car. Very very few engine builders in this country will do such a thing before giving you an engine. My builder does that.. PureMdMa on the forum will be getting his engine by the same builder. He was here last weekend watched his engine being cranked on the engine stand. It just gives you piece of mind when you put it in.
Unfortunately, he builds limited number of rotary engines per year.
10-07-06, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by herblenny
Even though it says mazda, the reman is built by some shop here in the states. Who knows what mechanic in some shop put the motor together.
This is the reason why when I got my motor, I wanted to see the engine run before putting it in my car. Very very few engine builders in this country will do such a thing before giving you an engine. My builder does that.. PureMdMa on the forum will be getting his engine by the same builder. He was here last weekend watched his engine being cranked on the engine stand. It just gives you piece of mind when you put it in.
Unfortunately, he builds limited number of rotary engines per year.
This is the reason why when I got my motor, I wanted to see the engine run before putting it in my car. Very very few engine builders in this country will do such a thing before giving you an engine. My builder does that.. PureMdMa on the forum will be getting his engine by the same builder. He was here last weekend watched his engine being cranked on the engine stand. It just gives you piece of mind when you put it in.
Unfortunately, he builds limited number of rotary engines per year.
10-07-06, 04:11 PM
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My best advice would be to make sure all of the solenoids are working correctly. Also didn't you say that you had to bypass a solenoid because it was broken? I know from experience that bypassing a solenoid can cause all kinds of wonderfull mystery issues.
If it was me and I had a new motor, I'd honestly probably go non sequential and remove as many of the vacuum lines as possible, but if you want to stay sequential, just buy a LOT of silicone vacuum hose and redo everything on the new motor per FSM and use little zip ties on them once you are certain they are connected right.
As for the hesitation and weird stumbles, I agree with the above posts regarding the bad coolant seal. Those will cause all kinds of problems.
Or you could just say screw it and pull the motor apart yourself, go with a streetport and a single turbo setup. That will definitely bring smiles to your face
-Maniac
If it was me and I had a new motor, I'd honestly probably go non sequential and remove as many of the vacuum lines as possible, but if you want to stay sequential, just buy a LOT of silicone vacuum hose and redo everything on the new motor per FSM and use little zip ties on them once you are certain they are connected right.
As for the hesitation and weird stumbles, I agree with the above posts regarding the bad coolant seal. Those will cause all kinds of problems.
Or you could just say screw it and pull the motor apart yourself, go with a streetport and a single turbo setup. That will definitely bring smiles to your face
-Maniac
10-07-06, 04:20 PM
#21
Originally Posted by weetbix13
'the core is going back so i'm going to nail it with a messed up coolant seal'
now, that is OUTSTANDING logic.
lets translate - that coolant leak is going to cause premature failure of the apex seals which could go out via your turbos. Mazda isn't going to pay for those turbos so i wouldn't go all that crazy just yet.
oh, and the hunting... if you've got coolant leaking internally, you've also got compression gases entering the coolant rather than offering full combustion strokes - that'll cause some hunting issues as the ECU trie to compensate the idle i'd say.
now, that is OUTSTANDING logic.
lets translate - that coolant leak is going to cause premature failure of the apex seals which could go out via your turbos. Mazda isn't going to pay for those turbos so i wouldn't go all that crazy just yet.
oh, and the hunting... if you've got coolant leaking internally, you've also got compression gases entering the coolant rather than offering full combustion strokes - that'll cause some hunting issues as the ECU trie to compensate the idle i'd say.
10-07-06, 05:06 PM
#22
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Originally Posted by alexdimen
how would a coolant leak cause the apex seals to fail? they are two different kinds of engine failure...
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