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I want to upgrade to GTR coils and I'm wondering if it will cause and issues. (Like the frequency of the spark that the coils will need to output) Is anyone here using GTR coils? Im currently using some sort of toyota ignition coils from the previous owner but.. they are TAPED with tape... and I prefer to upgrade rather then switch
What makes you think that those coils are an upgrade?
What are your current list of mods?
Street ported engine, 2200cc secondary 650cc primary injectors, adaptronic m1200 ecu, Precision Turbo P.. something. I forgot and I also lost the list. The current ones have a 4 pin on them but only 3 are in use ( Ground, Power, and Signal) so i'm thinking I can switch to gtr coils. Im considering not having taped and noname coils (the name has been filed off) an upgrade.
The IGN1A are basically General Motors style "coil near plug" coils, an adaptation something you would find on many 8 cylinders found in north america for example. It's basically tapping into that supply. OP is in Romania. I'm not sure about the GTR coils and where they were sourced, but like 1000 GT-Rs are made a year and who knows the availability and adaptation required for them to work.
I have a billet kit, fitment is tight if you have A/C P/S. Could be improved with unique coil bracket/coil orientation for front and rear rotor. I'm going to get a mate to 3d scan and remodel front/rear specific brackets. Functionally they work great but I haven't attempted high boost and water injection yet, although a failed water seal may count. 🙃
Not having leads as a failure point is theoretically desirable but if I was going again I'd probably just go the IGN-01A route, much easier fitment and access.
edit, auto correct and predictive text is actively detrimental now
The IGN1A are basically General Motors style "coil near plug" coils, an adaptation something you would find on many 8 cylinders found in north america for example. It's basically tapping into that supply. OP is in Romania. I'm not sure about the GTR coils and where they were sourced, but like 1000 GT-Rs are made a year and who knows the availability and adaptation required for them to work.
That is why I asked if someone is currently using them. I have all the wires that are required and since I already have brackets for the old coils and stuff, I just need connectors. Most people I asked said that all coils work the same and it shouldn't be a issue... but I really don't want to have any surprises
I have a billet kit, fitment is tight if you have A/C P/S. Could be improved with unique coil bracket/coil orientation for front and rear rotor. I'm going to get a mate to 3d scan and remodel front/rear specific brackets.
Not having leads as a failure point is theoretically desirable but if I was going again I'd probably just go the IGN-01A route, much easier fitment and access.
edit, auto correct and predictive text is actively detrimental now
Thanks for your message! Yes, fitment is tight on mine aswell. Even tighter since its a LHD and the steering column goes through there aswell. I just need to rewire my pins, and put on the coils. Have you had any issue with the engine missfiring or hesitating with these coils? (If you could give me a name for the brand of coils it would be great)
Thanks for your message! Yes, fitment is tight on mine aswell. Even tighter since its a LHD and the steering column goes through there aswell. I just need to rewire my pins, and put on the coils. Have you had any issue with the engine missfiring or hesitating with these coils? (If you could give me a name for the brand of coils it would be great)
I'm pretty sure they were one of the OEM Nissan suppliers, not an aftermarket "upgrade". Car has run well with them, no issues. This set came with an adapter harness, it's been a while, I think there was a ground wire to main engine ground point and an extra capacitor at the ignition loom plug.
I'm pretty sure they were one of the OEM Nissan suppliers, not an aftermarket "upgrade". Car has run well with them, no issues. This set came with an adapter harness, it's been a while, I think there was a ground wire to main engine ground point and an extra capacitor at the ignition loom plug.
I have an Apexi, factory wiring harness, 1999 turbos, Apexi intake, U type intercooler, 3 inch dump pipe into 3.5inch catback (will suit a larger single turbo and dump pipe). Basically running as much boost as the factory springs will allow, high flowed secondary injectors.
I like Herman and Andrew, and I've only been able to skim over this video but from what I saw it doesn't really test or speak to the IGN1As downfall in a high RPM rotary vs the same RPM capable RB config: saturation time vs cycle combustion cycle time. They can blast off but it takes a relatively long time to get to that point - which is fine when you're running DFI over 720*, not as much when running DFI over 360*.
There are multiple people who have posted dwell to saturation oscilloscope screen shots, it something like 9ms, not even considering the discharge time after that.
Both the Haltech and Link guidance materials for them are pretty clear about dwell limitations.
I like Herman and Andrew, and I've only been able to skim over this video but from what I saw it doesn't really test or speak to the IGN1As downfall in a high RPM rotary vs the same RPM capable RB config: saturation time vs cycle combustion cycle time. They can blast off but it takes a relatively long time to get to that point - which is fine when you're running DFI over 720*, not as much when running DFI over 360*.
IGN1A were originally Mercury Marine 2-stroke high rpm coils which is what makes them great... Who needs saturation (9ms) dwell?
Both the Haltech and Link guidance materials for them are pretty clear about dwell limitations.
(Also AEM) Most of the rebranded resellers have severe limitations that are not what the manufacturer of the coil actually recommends. Per the actual coil manufacturer, they can be run much harder than what the resellers recommend.
Back to the video,
Even though they said the IGN1A is the top performer of all, they did choose the R35 as the best performing OEM coil because they didn't want to rewire the ignition for the IGN1As and also because the R35s are smaller and have more installation options.
They do mention in the video that using the Haltech they ran various dwell values to achieve at best performance per coil throughout the RPM band and they tested them all at high rpm continuous for 10 minutes to monitor current draw and heat. Too bad they didn't publish their results tables along with the video...
IGN1A were originally Mercury Marine 2-stroke high rpm coils which is what makes them great... Who needs saturation (9ms) dwell?
I'm aware of where they came from, and saturation has a direct correlation to charge time for a given energy output - so unfortunately I need shorter saturation duration on engines that I've built with targets to 9250+ and have had to reduce dwell to keep duty cycle within tolerable levels over the course of a race.
(Also AEM) Most of the rebranded resellers have severe limitations that are not what the manufacturer of the coil actually recommends. Per the actual coil manufacturer, they can be run much harder than what the resellers recommend.
No doubt, and Lance has always been my go to for real information, however I've personally roasted a couple of these due to constant high duty cycles. They're fantastic coils when used in the manner that they're capable of, unfortunately rotaries can and do move outside that tolerable range when designed with high revs and road racing in mind.
My comment isn't to say that the IGN1A is a bad choice for 95% of users - I use them on both of my street cars - it's to say that it was an incomplete test given the capabilities of the engine we're on this forum to talk about. We can point that out as a shortcoming and potentially misleading (unintentionally in my estimation) conclusion of the test in the video while also giving props to PRP, Motive, and the coils/PanteraEFI at the same time.
There are multiple people who have posted dwell to saturation oscilloscope screen shots, it something like 9ms, not even considering the discharge time after that.
Both the Haltech and Link guidance materials for them are pretty clear about dwell limitations.
I trust the main IGN-1A manufacturing supplier above all, but my point is that there aren’t many people on this forum in general, even less in this specific FD3 area, that are ever going to get near that point. Stating it as a general warning is fine, but we also can’t overlook all of the people on here using them without issue. Hence my posted words; “a bit over-stated”. That’s all I was angling at. I believe the discussion that followed my post essentially clarified this.
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I like the idea of direct-mounted coils from a modern car, like the Nissan/Hitachi ones from the first post, to remove spark plug wires from the equation. But it looks like they would make it difficult to access the spark plugs, and I'm interested to hear if anyone has personal experience with them.
Good point about rotary engines not having as much time to charge the ignition coils. It's the same reason rotaries end up needing really high-flow injectors, the engine has half as much time between spark events as a piston engine. A 9300 RPM rotary has only 6.4 milliseconds between spark events, that's equivalent to an 18600 RPM piston engine. I've heard a successful piston engine tuner talk about running the lowest coil charge time he can get away with, with the intention of keeping the ignition coils from getting too hot. I think his calibrations from 1000HP 4-cylinder Honda engines were using 3.0 ms of coil charge time on factory Honda K-series coils, the driver was shifting around 11000 RPM which would be equivalent to a rotary at 5500 RPM in terms of time-between-spark-events. Part of his trick to getting good spark energy with low dwell time was the 16V battery systems common on drag cars.
agreed, but I still feel that the IGN-1A spark is still strong enough with proper dwell values to exceed the supposed rpm limit value. There are always exceptions to any rule, it’s important to understand the boundaries and the specific conditions that apply and how it plays out. Obviously the NA limit is going go vary from the FI limit wrt the load to light off against.
Call it ignition chess, if you will. I’m confident that a Mercury 2-stroke race engine has exceeded 9000 rpm without issue … and even though I generally advocate not exceeding 8600 rpm on a Renesis NA engine, I’ve held a 10k rev limiter for an extended period under certain competition conditions knowing full well that it was reducing rotor seal longevity.
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I'd consider the Vr38 coil a downgrade over OEM coils
There are so many reasons not to do coil on plug on rotary especially in an FD. Serviceability is absolutely trash and they just don't perform on a rotary engine.
Of course just my opinion
Most coil failures will usually be a result of poor wiring/ground offsets etc.
