Anyone still running their FD as a dual-use street/track car these days?
06-11-23, 03:06 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Anyone still running their FD as a dual-use street/track car these days?
Or has that era passed as these cars get older and more valuable? What is your safety setup like? Would you build it that way again?
Years ago I tracked mine a few times but was having intake temp issues, and then got sidetracked getting a comp license and doing some on-and-off Spec Miata arrive-and-drive rentals ($$$), then the pandemic, then the FD being off the road for some unrelated overhaul work. I think I'm probably good to go on temps now with water injection and a v-mount, but I have no track safety equipment in the car (roll bar, seats, harness, HANS is what I'd ideally want) and this is a pretty quick tin can from the 90s that I wouldn't want to crash as stock. Oh, and it's a pretty nice street car right now that just needs some simple work to be a really nice street car. Full interior already, minimal rattles, have the parts to put AC back in, etc. So I'm hestitant to, e.g., remove or ruin all the back plastics by putting in a roll bar.
The obvious answer is to get a separate track car I don't care about, but storing another car somewhere would be a pain, and then it's two machines to look after and service. But even more, I'm not really sure what the point of the FD is on the street. It's fun and nostalgic, but it really comes alive when you drive it hard. But I don't drive that way outside a track.
So the catch-22: seems a bit of waste to own this car and just cruise around to cars and coffee, but at the same time I'm hesitant to weld a rollbar in and "ruin" it as a nice street car. I can't envision selling it, but I don't know what to do with it.
Anyway, self-indulgent thread. Just wondering what other people are doing. Anyone have a really clean streetable track/trackable street setup that you don't regret?
Years ago I tracked mine a few times but was having intake temp issues, and then got sidetracked getting a comp license and doing some on-and-off Spec Miata arrive-and-drive rentals ($$$), then the pandemic, then the FD being off the road for some unrelated overhaul work. I think I'm probably good to go on temps now with water injection and a v-mount, but I have no track safety equipment in the car (roll bar, seats, harness, HANS is what I'd ideally want) and this is a pretty quick tin can from the 90s that I wouldn't want to crash as stock. Oh, and it's a pretty nice street car right now that just needs some simple work to be a really nice street car. Full interior already, minimal rattles, have the parts to put AC back in, etc. So I'm hestitant to, e.g., remove or ruin all the back plastics by putting in a roll bar.
The obvious answer is to get a separate track car I don't care about, but storing another car somewhere would be a pain, and then it's two machines to look after and service. But even more, I'm not really sure what the point of the FD is on the street. It's fun and nostalgic, but it really comes alive when you drive it hard. But I don't drive that way outside a track.
So the catch-22: seems a bit of waste to own this car and just cruise around to cars and coffee, but at the same time I'm hesitant to weld a rollbar in and "ruin" it as a nice street car. I can't envision selling it, but I don't know what to do with it.
Anyway, self-indulgent thread. Just wondering what other people are doing. Anyone have a really clean streetable track/trackable street setup that you don't regret?
06-11-23, 05:30 PM
#2
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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If you’re looking to get into tracking seriously, then you need a separate vehicle. A dedicated race machine. This has been the case since the beginning. The FD is a street vehicle. While it’s a very capable machine on the track, it wasn’t meant to be an all out racer. No street vehicle ever is. That goes for “exotics” too.
The thing that made the FD so easy to kinda turn it into a dedicated race machine was its initial design. As you mentioned, it only starts to come really alive when it’s being pushed. Which is rare in a street vehicle.
nowadays it would be a total shame to transform a good example into a race machine. Especially when you can pick up a Mono Bac or a Radical which is infinitely better at the track than any converted street vehicle will ever be.
I think mine is about as hardcore street and slightly more competent on the track than your stock vehicle. However, there are no mandated sanctioned safety stuff on the car. No roll bar, no fire suppressant, no pins holding down panels. It’s very much a clean street machine that “looks” like a semi racer.
The thing that made the FD so easy to kinda turn it into a dedicated race machine was its initial design. As you mentioned, it only starts to come really alive when it’s being pushed. Which is rare in a street vehicle.
nowadays it would be a total shame to transform a good example into a race machine. Especially when you can pick up a Mono Bac or a Radical which is infinitely better at the track than any converted street vehicle will ever be.
I think mine is about as hardcore street and slightly more competent on the track than your stock vehicle. However, there are no mandated sanctioned safety stuff on the car. No roll bar, no fire suppressant, no pins holding down panels. It’s very much a clean street machine that “looks” like a semi racer.
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06-11-23, 06:41 PM
#4
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It all depends on the level you are trying to get. Is it a dual purpose to compete or just do track days and have fun? Or are you trying to win championships?
i have built my car the same way, to be a dual purpose. I get some daily comforts such as A/C ABS etc but with my current setup it is more of a track car that sees the streets instead of the other way around.
it also depends on the classes of the event you are participating in.
as for the mentioned track only vehicles, someone is watching far too much top gear. A BAC Mono would cost you north of 150k and while the Radical SR3 will cost a lot less but still a major chunk.
i have built my car the same way, to be a dual purpose. I get some daily comforts such as A/C ABS etc but with my current setup it is more of a track car that sees the streets instead of the other way around.
it also depends on the classes of the event you are participating in.
as for the mentioned track only vehicles, someone is watching far too much top gear. A BAC Mono would cost you north of 150k and while the Radical SR3 will cost a lot less but still a major chunk.
Last edited by R-R-Rx7; 06-11-23 at 06:47 PM.
06-11-23, 08:21 PM
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My application is/will be a bit different as I have a tendency to do things in the completely incorrect order, but I initially went from "dual purpose" to "logbooked race vehicle that is only registered so I can shake it down without having to schedule a test day and maybe go a few miles up the road"
I initially wanted a true dual-purpose car until I realized that I wanted to HPDE/TT it into the ground and run PHA/SCCA hill climbs with it since I don't really like street driving it where I live (read: not enjoyable in such conditions), and realized that trees and tin cans on wheels do not necessarily go together. The kinds of impacts that can be sustained under such use conditions are not compatible with the bare minimum safety equipment and the speeds that can be attained on many of these courses. I've seen what these things look like when subjected to heavy side impacts where the principal point of contact is relatively small and combined with how little reinforcement there is in that area (the doors), I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it in anything other than a vehicle with a full safety equipment setup (cage w anti-intrusion bars/harness/fire suppression and maybe a containment seat) My risk tolerance simply does not allow for it. The neat thing is that you can mitigate a lot of the risk yourself through your own actions as you are likely familiar.
I'd start by putting a lot of thought into what you would ultimately like to do with it and with what sanctioning bodies, as it will have the propensity to dictate how/what certain things are done. We can cut out a roll bar or a cage, but the originality of the vehicle is irrelevant if you are maimed or killed. It only has to happen once.
As you know, you can give yourself the best possible chance of success if you fixture it properly. My recommendation would be to install all the safety equipment you would want. I cannot for the life of me understand why folks will spend Tens of thousands of dollars on performance and cosmetic modifications and then skimp when it comes to safety in the name of originality and perceived value.
At the risk of upsetting the powers that be, I would go as far as to say that the world could use more track-prepped third gens. They are simply extraordinary vehicles when properly fixtured as shown by the many here in years past who have pursued such endeavours. I know there aren't as many around as there once were, but buying something and then not using it in a way that you enjoy defeats the purpose of owning such a thing. You only have one life to live and not doing things the way you want because of what others may tell you is not the way I would like to spend it.
I tried to do the "just cruise around and go to c&c events with it" but I just did not enjoy it.
With all that having been said, there are some folks here who have much more experience in this matter than myself. Hopefully, they will chime in soon.
I initially wanted a true dual-purpose car until I realized that I wanted to HPDE/TT it into the ground and run PHA/SCCA hill climbs with it since I don't really like street driving it where I live (read: not enjoyable in such conditions), and realized that trees and tin cans on wheels do not necessarily go together. The kinds of impacts that can be sustained under such use conditions are not compatible with the bare minimum safety equipment and the speeds that can be attained on many of these courses. I've seen what these things look like when subjected to heavy side impacts where the principal point of contact is relatively small and combined with how little reinforcement there is in that area (the doors), I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it in anything other than a vehicle with a full safety equipment setup (cage w anti-intrusion bars/harness/fire suppression and maybe a containment seat) My risk tolerance simply does not allow for it. The neat thing is that you can mitigate a lot of the risk yourself through your own actions as you are likely familiar.
I'd start by putting a lot of thought into what you would ultimately like to do with it and with what sanctioning bodies, as it will have the propensity to dictate how/what certain things are done. We can cut out a roll bar or a cage, but the originality of the vehicle is irrelevant if you are maimed or killed. It only has to happen once.
As you know, you can give yourself the best possible chance of success if you fixture it properly. My recommendation would be to install all the safety equipment you would want. I cannot for the life of me understand why folks will spend Tens of thousands of dollars on performance and cosmetic modifications and then skimp when it comes to safety in the name of originality and perceived value.
At the risk of upsetting the powers that be, I would go as far as to say that the world could use more track-prepped third gens. They are simply extraordinary vehicles when properly fixtured as shown by the many here in years past who have pursued such endeavours. I know there aren't as many around as there once were, but buying something and then not using it in a way that you enjoy defeats the purpose of owning such a thing. You only have one life to live and not doing things the way you want because of what others may tell you is not the way I would like to spend it.
I tried to do the "just cruise around and go to c&c events with it" but I just did not enjoy it.
With all that having been said, there are some folks here who have much more experience in this matter than myself. Hopefully, they will chime in soon.
Last edited by SETaylor; 06-11-23 at 08:30 PM.
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Neo (06-11-23)
06-11-23, 08:35 PM
#6
Full Member
Thread Starter
If you’re looking to get into tracking seriously, then you need a separate vehicle. A dedicated race machine. This has been the case since the beginning. The FD is a street vehicle. While it’s a very capable machine on the track, it wasn’t meant to be an all out racer. No street vehicle ever is. That goes for “exotics” too.
...
I think mine is about as hardcore street and slightly more competent on the track than your stock vehicle. However, there are no mandated sanctioned safety stuff on the car. No roll bar, no fire suppressant, no pins holding down panels. It’s very much a clean street machine that “looks” like a semi racer.
...
I think mine is about as hardcore street and slightly more competent on the track than your stock vehicle. However, there are no mandated sanctioned safety stuff on the car. No roll bar, no fire suppressant, no pins holding down panels. It’s very much a clean street machine that “looks” like a semi racer.
It all depends on the level you are trying to get. Is it a dual purpose to compete or just do track days and have fun? Or are you trying to win championships?
i have built my car the same way, to be a dual purpose. I get some daily comforts such as A/C ABS etc but with my current setup it is more of a track car that sees the streets instead of the other way around.
it also depends on the classes of the event you are participating in.
as for the mentioned track only vehicles, someone is watching far too much top gear. A BAC Mono would cost you north of 150k and while the Radical SR3 will cost a lot less but still a major chunk.
i have built my car the same way, to be a dual purpose. I get some daily comforts such as A/C ABS etc but with my current setup it is more of a track car that sees the streets instead of the other way around.
it also depends on the classes of the event you are participating in.
as for the mentioned track only vehicles, someone is watching far too much top gear. A BAC Mono would cost you north of 150k and while the Radical SR3 will cost a lot less but still a major chunk.
What is your build like in terms of safety equipment, and how often are you tracking?
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Neo (06-12-23)
06-11-23, 09:47 PM
#7
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My car is half way around the globe. I am there every few months and on every trip i manage to squeeze 3 to 4 track days so throughout the year anything from 10-15 track days or a time attack event or other similar events.
in terms of safety i had started with a bolt-on roll cage from cusco which i recently removed but i have not decided what to replace it with.
I am using a hybrid-S simpsons hans device because i tend to either drive other cars or be passenger with others. So i want my neck protected because i have a major prior injury and surgery to my spine.
Recaro FIA seats with takata harnesses (to be installed)
2 fia fire extinguishers
i am using different tires for my track setup with different alignment settings. So if you want to keep the same tires for street and track this is a “major” compromise for the lap times. If i am understanding this correctly it sounds like you want to have fun and enjoy it at the track. Doesnt seem that you will be chasing every last .001 of a second so yeah there is nothing wrong with that. It think it is doable for a dual purpose car like that
in terms of safety i had started with a bolt-on roll cage from cusco which i recently removed but i have not decided what to replace it with.
I am using a hybrid-S simpsons hans device because i tend to either drive other cars or be passenger with others. So i want my neck protected because i have a major prior injury and surgery to my spine.
Recaro FIA seats with takata harnesses (to be installed)
2 fia fire extinguishers
i am using different tires for my track setup with different alignment settings. So if you want to keep the same tires for street and track this is a “major” compromise for the lap times. If i am understanding this correctly it sounds like you want to have fun and enjoy it at the track. Doesnt seem that you will be chasing every last .001 of a second so yeah there is nothing wrong with that. It think it is doable for a dual purpose car like that
Last edited by R-R-Rx7; 06-11-23 at 09:54 PM.
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06-12-23, 12:20 AM
#8
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Msilvia,
I use to take it to the occasional open track days. Strictly as a fun time. Never pushed or competed against others at the same time. It’s always been 1 of my dream cars so the last thing I would want to do is ruin it pushing 10/10ths.
What I meant by serious racing is being on the same track as others and competing for top place. While time attack and open lap days is fun and all, it’s not the same as competing with others. The vehicle you are racing will get hurt. Despite your best intentions. Even more so if you compete in open wheel series.
Which is why I suggested getting a dedicated race car. Alas, someone else in this thread thinks I just take suggestions from a popular uk show.. I made those suggestions because if you’re serious about competing, then you’re going to need proper equipment. Why bother building something up when there are already built options available? Save yourself the expense and headaches and just get the machine of a series you’re interested in?
If I had more money and I wanted to get into a fun series, I would check out the MX5 cup series. It really does make you a better racer and you get some serious race experience. A few of us here are no spring chickens. Trying to compete even in a F1500 or 2000 series will probably be a stretch at our tender age. I do believe you can’t find a more fun series than the mx5 cup.
I use to take it to the occasional open track days. Strictly as a fun time. Never pushed or competed against others at the same time. It’s always been 1 of my dream cars so the last thing I would want to do is ruin it pushing 10/10ths.
What I meant by serious racing is being on the same track as others and competing for top place. While time attack and open lap days is fun and all, it’s not the same as competing with others. The vehicle you are racing will get hurt. Despite your best intentions. Even more so if you compete in open wheel series.
Which is why I suggested getting a dedicated race car. Alas, someone else in this thread thinks I just take suggestions from a popular uk show.
. I made those suggestions because if you’re serious about competing, then you’re going to need proper equipment. Why bother building something up when there are already built options available? Save yourself the expense and headaches and just get the machine of a series you’re interested in?If I had more money and I wanted to get into a fun series, I would check out the MX5 cup series. It really does make you a better racer and you get some serious race experience. A few of us here are no spring chickens. Trying to compete even in a F1500 or 2000 series will probably be a stretch at our tender age. I do believe you can’t find a more fun series than the mx5 cup.
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Howard Coleman (06-12-23)
06-12-23, 08:42 AM
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+1 rent a spec miata, or miata cup car. you will not find closer racing than that.
spec miata is 1990-2005 cars. the cup series are the newer cars.
for the safety stuff you really need to read the rules of the classes you're interested in, most of it is the same, but any actual racing class will require a full cage and those vary
spec miata is 1990-2005 cars. the cup series are the newer cars.
for the safety stuff you really need to read the rules of the classes you're interested in, most of it is the same, but any actual racing class will require a full cage and those vary
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Neo (06-12-23)
06-12-23, 11:44 AM
#10
Rotary Enthusiast
My FD is a retired Time Attack car with a bolt-in roll bar that came with it.
The FD are becoming too valuable (and scarce parts/expertise), in my opinion, for every owner to race on the track. I'm running it on the street, though I have taken it to race schools and lapping days.
What may become more common is either returning the cars to stock or having a car that is capable of track use (i.e., bolt-on upgrades), without being a full race car (cage, stripped interior, aftermarket ECU, etc.).
I'd like to add a few things to my already-modified base FD, like a functional rear wing (or Spirit R spoiler) and front lip, upgraded brakes, Öhlins coilovers, etc.
I'm a fan of the stock twins (or upgraded ones, like the Series 8 turbos/BNR) with modern tuning.
The FD are becoming too valuable (and scarce parts/expertise), in my opinion, for every owner to race on the track. I'm running it on the street, though I have taken it to race schools and lapping days.
What may become more common is either returning the cars to stock or having a car that is capable of track use (i.e., bolt-on upgrades), without being a full race car (cage, stripped interior, aftermarket ECU, etc.).
I'd like to add a few things to my already-modified base FD, like a functional rear wing (or Spirit R spoiler) and front lip, upgraded brakes, Öhlins coilovers, etc.
I'm a fan of the stock twins (or upgraded ones, like the Series 8 turbos/BNR) with modern tuning.
Last edited by HiWire; 06-12-23 at 11:47 AM.
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06-12-23, 11:56 AM
#11
Ban Peak
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I'm deep down a rabbit hole. My dream was always having an FD that was set up for HPDE because I knew I would have a family in the suburbs without room or time for anything with a greater requirement. It's taken me a long time to get where I'm at but I'm reassembling a car that I now feel is too valuable to take to a road course but I probably still will.
I wouldn't use it as a dedicated racer but if you don't mind buying track insurance I still think it's a reasonable car to run for a few HPDE's a year it's still something that is fun and quick enough for the money. With the track insurance, if your wreck, you should be able to get a similar replacement to what you had.
If your car has over 50k miles I'd just do what you want.
I wouldn't use it as a dedicated racer but if you don't mind buying track insurance I still think it's a reasonable car to run for a few HPDE's a year it's still something that is fun and quick enough for the money. With the track insurance, if your wreck, you should be able to get a similar replacement to what you had.
If your car has over 50k miles I'd just do what you want.
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HiWire (06-12-23)
06-12-23, 01:23 PM
#12
I still do.
As others have said, "dual purpose" isn't hard if you're tracking for fun, and don't get too speed thirsty (like I am). A good bolt-in roll bar won't ruin the car. Harnesses can be clipped in. Brake pads swapped, different wheels/tires along with them.
Get your cooling, fuel delivery, and safety right. Don't go too aggressive on track tires, and it won't necessitate super stiff springs.
As others have said, "dual purpose" isn't hard if you're tracking for fun, and don't get too speed thirsty (like I am). A good bolt-in roll bar won't ruin the car. Harnesses can be clipped in. Brake pads swapped, different wheels/tires along with them.
Get your cooling, fuel delivery, and safety right. Don't go too aggressive on track tires, and it won't necessitate super stiff springs.
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