|aFk| LiMiTz

cool..that means theres a shop close by for you and me batman

DCrosby

From what I heard from KDR when I Inquired about rebuild they wanted to know if I wanted to distribute a 100 units !? I said sure, I'm independantly wealthy.... send 200 !... So I guess I'll be distributing them (Not)...
Bu supposedly some shop in the bay area is getting trained on the device, and should be reselling them soon.. !? Who Knows... I'll start giving a F when I see someone at 7 Stock with it Or in this area

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Who gives a **** about 89 octane?! I'd rather have it tuned to deliver more power w/ 93... can it do that?

I'm already pre-mixing and using synth oil, why would I care to chump-out on a few cents worth of cheaper gas?

BATMAN

Yep......... I know exactly which shop it is.

I might be the first guy in the Bay Area to have this.....

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

matty

this is exactly waht i want to know. Are there other benefits then being able to run lower octane. i personally dont care about saving a few cents on gas. i dont think anyone can answer this though..just kd themselves.

i know leaner can equal more power but who knows what the effects of the changes in timing and whatever other changes they make can have?

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

The lower octane should help with power and also keep the engine cleaner from carbon deposits.

LT1RX7

Lower octane DOES NOT EQUAL MORE POWER and has nothing to do with deposits.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

How does running leaner not mean more power and less carbon?

Senseny

My 1993 R-1 is going to KDR on Monday. Included in this round of mods (I want the 1300cc secondary rail and my AC either finally fixed or deleted) is going to be the anti-detonation device. I like the idea of more torque, cheaper gas, and no detonation, and so far Dave has done me nothing but good. So far he has done hi flo cat, upgrade fuel pump, Apexi Power FC with commander, underdrive pulley, all the usual reliability stuff, Greddy air intake, Greddy BOV, Greddy front mount, short shifter, cross-drilled vented rotors, and a few little goodies. My goals, which Skip said I will get, is 350 to the rear wheels and a considerable torque improvement (no number in mind), without dialing the stock twins up too much (right now running factory boost pattern). We shall see and I will post here often with updates about performance. Of course I anticipate good things as I have been getting, but any bad you will hear about as well.

Senseny

Oh, lest anyone think I am goofy enough to do a high flow cat without doing a catback and downpipe, those were the only mods to the car that were done prior to my ownership. I think the down is Bonez and the catback is Greddy. I am only listing all of this so that everyone knows what I am running with before the anti-detonation "device" goes in. Sheesh, I must be trusting to spend money on a device that is a complete mystery.

fdracer

let's stop talking about how well it works for a sec. first, somebody tell us what the **** it is. it's the simplest ****** question and no one can answer it.

rynberg

Has anyone here stopped and thought that maybe their device will be easily copied by other vendors and they are just trying to protect their design? Especially in it's early stages?

Everyone on this forum seems to think that KD Rotary OWES them an explanation. I don't see how this device is any different than buying a PFC or aftermarket ecu. Most people buying one of these has no idea how they work or what they really do but they buy them anyway.

I think we all need to be more patient.

(BTW, that wasn't directed at you fdracer, but to everyone.)

BATMAN

Yep.

I have said this in one way or another.

We live in a free market capitalistic society.

And within that context it is in anyone's right to protect their interests as in this case.

I understand the frustration of why people want to know what it is mixed with impatience in anticipation of the next engine that might be installed.

but on the other hand, it's KDR's hard work, design and the time and $$$ that goes comes with R&D.

Just look at the copy cat and knock offs out there.

M2 was one of the leaders in the RX7 community to get quality **** out there with improved HP and reliability on their top agenda.

They developed one of the best cold air intake boxes for the FD.

And someone takes that and copies it.

That is exactly what KDR is trying to protect against.

I doubt that anyone would be honest enough to give $$$ to KDR for their time and efforts in developing this product for the RX7.

If they explained it in details and someone copies it (we all know that will happen based on the relative simplicity of the design) and undercuts their price to sell to us then how the **** does someone like KDR recover the R&D $$$ and time that went into this?

People cheating the system of R&D and going straight into production with the right blue prints don't have past expenses to make up for.

Some of u guys need to take some basic business courses with regards to the aforementioned.

It's a pity that this generation is all about ripping **** off for free if they can get it.

The Napster Generation.

What a ******* joke!

johnchabin

iTrader: (2)

I disagree. You know what you are getting when you buy an aftermarket ECU (an aftermarket ECU), and you know what it does. Most people don't understand the physics behind heat transfer, but buy aftermarket intercoolers anyway.
What's to stop their competition from buying one and reverse engineering it? If it's simple enough to build from just a description of what it is, it's certainly simple enough to build if you buy one...

Kento

Two nails basically hit square on their heads...

Kento

Uhh...don't know if you realize this, but everything you're saying follows the point rynberg is trying to make...

BATMAN

that's true.

And i already knew someone would say that.

KDR knows that too.

So in their interests they would maximize return and market share if they were to act fast in mass deployment.

If they took their time in getting **** out to people in their local vicinity and to those on the other side of the USA then they leave themselves open to someone copying them and grabbing market share that they have left open due to slow channel deployment.

Now if they (and I know that they are working with a few strategic installation and distribution centers around the USA) were to be quick in deployment of a working product with these trained installation centers the people trying to reverse engineer and sell product at a cheaper price would have less market share by the time they find someone to make this in any profitable quantity.

I would recommend KDR to forecast how many people would be at any given time and follow that in conjunction with their deployment dates and locations.

If they can avoid backorders and keep the **** flowing then the competitors will be hard pressed to even find this worth their time and efforts to copy and sell.

BATMAN

u'll have to excuse him since it's the high elevation and low O2 density that is the culprit.........

Senseny

A couple points, no one is going to reverse engineer the device off my car unless my engine detonates. I am a small businessman, and if I engineered something that works in my industry but no one else has it I would be cryptic in my descriptions as well. What would sell my secretive method is the trust my current clients had in my work and then testimonials. I am willing to give KDR the benefit of the doubt and try this out. I am sure if this mod is everything that it is supposed to be, someone will figure it out. But maybe by then Dave and Skip will be able to patent or somehow protect their investment. I don't blame anyone for not wanting a mod that won't be explained to them in function, I had a hard time swallowing that as well. But, as I am a salesman myself, I allowed my self to be sold by someone who has done me no wrong. My other feeling is that Dave has known I have no mechanical ability or apptitude, he could have taken advantage of me years ago. However I know for a fact he hasn't, why would he start now. Why would he risk his rep with a loyal customer to make a few bucks. I know the detonation stories with the dyno, I think that is a much different issue, and I won't speak of it here.

BATMAN

yep.......

I have this feeling that much of the forum members bitching about not getting all the 411 on KDR's anti-kaboom device fit one or more of these categories:

1. Too young (still in school to know any better)
2. Never had true business exposure with regards to (channel) sales/dsitribution and manufacturing
3. technical folks that want information so that they can assess if they can copy it

SPOautos

I dont see anything special about this dyno sheet other than its at a higher than normmal a/f. However the wierd thing is I'd expect him to make MUCH more power than that with his mods so it doesnt seem that running lean is helping his power any. His tq and hp along with the curves look just like many many others except that its lower for his mods than I would have expected, especially at that a/f ratio and timing.

So I guess this device isnt doing anything in the power departmant and might possibally be hurting the power in an effort to gain fuel economy and no detonation.

STEPHEN

johnchabin

iTrader: (2)

I think you need to read again...
I'm pointing out how this device IS different...

The difference is you know what you got with a ECU. You don't know what you got with an anti-detonation device. If you did, everyone wouldn't be asking "What is it?".

matty

i agree with everything u say here . in fact once i saw that graph i was turned off alittle!

BUT

Its odd to me than others have shown much more rwt!

johnchabin

iTrader: (2)

4. technical folks that want information so that they can assess if they should buy it