anti-detonation device revealed
04-22-05, 03:23 PM
#51
Originally Posted by Don-94BB R2(NJ)
OK, so if I have this 'device' taken out then, there would really be no need for my HKS ingnition amp?!?
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
I doubt he's leasing his car, I think he's buying (or owns).
04-22-05, 04:15 PM
#52
Originally Posted by SPOautos
If you have it installed on your car and your car was tuned that way I would leave it alone. Your car has been tuned specifically for no trailing. If you want to remove it take it back and have it redone with the trailing back in place and retuned.
04-22-05, 04:19 PM
#53
Yar-Har-Har
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Nashville, 37217
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DaleClark
Cool - thanks, Kevin!
Can you tell what they're made of - stainless, aluminum, etc.? If they were ferrous, you could use a magnet to extract them. I would guess aluminum, as that's the same as the rotor housing and would have the same coefficient of expansion.
IMHO, there isn't and will never be a "fix" for detonation. It's simple - tune the motor properly or get too greedy for power, and the motor WILL go. Horsepower is unfortunately inversely proportional to engine life. Not to mention I've seen a LOT of motors go from stupid stuff - big favorite is the vacuum line to the MAP sensor for a Haltech resting on the turbine housing, burning a hole - the ECU sees less boost, injects less fuel, and kablow. TWO motors locally have gone due to that simple oversight.
Personally, I've overcome the desire for huge amounts of power. I plan on refinining the stock setup, and having a lot of fun driving my FD instead of watching it sit in the garage. If insane power and straight-line acceleration is all you want, the FD isn't the car for you. If you want a balanced package that can handle, brake, and accelerate well and look phenomenal while doing it, that's the FD.
Dale
Can you tell what they're made of - stainless, aluminum, etc.? If they were ferrous, you could use a magnet to extract them. I would guess aluminum, as that's the same as the rotor housing and would have the same coefficient of expansion.
IMHO, there isn't and will never be a "fix" for detonation. It's simple - tune the motor properly or get too greedy for power, and the motor WILL go. Horsepower is unfortunately inversely proportional to engine life. Not to mention I've seen a LOT of motors go from stupid stuff - big favorite is the vacuum line to the MAP sensor for a Haltech resting on the turbine housing, burning a hole - the ECU sees less boost, injects less fuel, and kablow. TWO motors locally have gone due to that simple oversight.
Personally, I've overcome the desire for huge amounts of power. I plan on refinining the stock setup, and having a lot of fun driving my FD instead of watching it sit in the garage. If insane power and straight-line acceleration is all you want, the FD isn't the car for you. If you want a balanced package that can handle, brake, and accelerate well and look phenomenal while doing it, that's the FD.
Dale
04-22-05, 10:35 PM
#54
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't believe that a "special" tune is required to run no trailings. I've had this "device" on my car for quite a while and run an ALMOST stock mod map on my PFC. I do think, however, more power could be made with fine tuning. As for gas mileage, I get 16 mpg and make about 320 rwhp
04-23-05, 08:45 AM
#55
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lakewood, NJ
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=FDNewbie]Umm...I'm not sure why you're running the ignition amp. I bought an HKS Twin Power (NOT PACK!!!) specifically because w/ my mods and tune, I was getting breakup at high rpm, and an ignition amp was recommended by friends, on the forum, and tuners I talked to.
My original post on page 3 explains it and its the HKS Twin Power
My original post on page 3 explains it and its the HKS Twin Power
04-23-05, 11:23 AM
#56
Originally Posted by Don-94BB R2(NJ)
My original post on page 3 explains it and its the HKS Twin Power
Oh and the "Twin PACK" part wasn't directed to you. It's directed to the 1001 ppl who still refer to the HKS Twin AMP as the "twin PACK" LOL.
04-23-05, 12:33 PM
#57
Forever Modified
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: WA
Posts: 1,423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't believe having too much power is the problem, if an FD is tuned properly or at least close to it. The abuse of that power, or modding it incorrectly is usually what results in a blown motor or reduction in longetivity. I could see a 350 hp rotary lasting as long as 255hp rotary as long as you aren't pressing the engine for that power all the time.
I think its great that people push the envelope because it benefits us all, when new things are found about our motor, I still think there is a lot to be discovered.
I think its great that people push the envelope because it benefits us all, when new things are found about our motor, I still think there is a lot to be discovered.
04-25-05, 09:00 AM
#58
The Ricer Eliminator
I tend to agree.
The thing that is absolutely necessary when you start making power, and/or looking to use it is to have twin oil coolers, or at least get an oil temp guage.
Also, with the anti det, the more tourque you make adds up to more heat, which makes the need for oil temp control even more important.
The thing that is absolutely necessary when you start making power, and/or looking to use it is to have twin oil coolers, or at least get an oil temp guage.
Also, with the anti det, the more tourque you make adds up to more heat, which makes the need for oil temp control even more important.
04-25-05, 01:59 PM
#60
Originally Posted by rallimike
Maybe the problem wasn't detonation, but rather what is discussed in the following link?
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/boost.htm
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/boost.htm
04-25-05, 02:21 PM
#61
Originally Posted by the_glass_man
Nope, that's detonation anyway you want to cut it. That engine was running 3 mm seals so it's not like it wasn't built for boost.
-Max
04-25-05, 02:47 PM
#64
The Ricer Eliminator
Intrigueing question. I actually was thinking the same. It doesn't even have to be a hot day for that to happen.
I am dealing with what you guys are talking about right now. I have a single cooler, and my car now has a strange idle, and is on it's last days. It's not blown, still pulls good vacuum(seals are still decent) , but i'm pretty sure I have a slightly warped rotor.
It happened when I went out with the local Lotus/Ferrari club.
I am dealing with what you guys are talking about right now. I have a single cooler, and my car now has a strange idle, and is on it's last days. It's not blown, still pulls good vacuum(seals are still decent) , but i'm pretty sure I have a slightly warped rotor.
It happened when I went out with the local Lotus/Ferrari club.
04-25-05, 02:51 PM
#65
Originally Posted by maxcooper
That engine was not running 3mm seals. But the driver did keep his foot in it longer than he should have on a hot day at the track.
-Max
-Max
Originally Posted by fastcarfreak
That looks like a result of the oil temps getting too hot. I wonder if that car had dual oil coolers on it?
How did KDR explain your second blown motor, since you now have dual oil coolers?
Was it another bad injector? Bad tank of gas? Full moon?
04-25-05, 02:54 PM
#67
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by the_glass_man
I've never seen a rotors face dented like that.
It came from detonation any which way you want to say it.
How did KDR explain your second blown motor, since you now have dual oil coolers?
Was it another bad injector? Bad tank of gas? Full moon?
Was it another bad injector? Bad tank of gas? Full moon?
04-25-05, 04:06 PM
#68
3rd motors a charm I hope
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Central New York
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by the_glass_man
You're kidding me right? Please don't buy into the crap that KDR feed you. I saw your rotor first hand on the first motor that blew with the anti detonation device and the face of that rotor put Max's rotor to shame. I've never seen a rotors face dented like that. It came from detonation any which way you want to say it.
How did KDR explain your second blown motor, since you now have dual oil coolers?
Was it another bad injector? Bad tank of gas? Full moon?
Why is it that you are so against KDR? Have they ever done you wrong?
****, i understand that you dont agree with the anti det device, and yes I have my doubts about how effective it is too (im not completely naive). Its not like i have that much of a choice in place to go. The next closest rotary specialist is rx7 store which is 8 hours from me. Dave truly is an amazing mechanic, and his shop does top notch work. He may be no Steve Kan when it comes to tuning, but he still is more experienced then me. The reality of the whole thing is, I was able to run 20 psi on pump gas and not have any problems. There is another guy that is currently running 24 psi on pump gas with the device and a microtech, that has been doing so for a few thousand miles now. When my motor blew the first time, i was only running 13 psi and it was after a half an hour of breaking in my Kaaz differential in 90 degree weather. Right after that session, I went right on the highway and like an idiot decided to race a M3 that was edging me on. Heat broke my motor, and along with heat yes, comes pre ignition. Its not the end all stop to detonation. I take full responsibility for that mistake, it was pretty stupid of me. The second motor blew after taking the car out on a cold winter (Christmas) day, again this time at only 15 psi and through only one gear (3rd). He found a quart and a half of water in my gas tank. He replaced this motor for me for nothing, and I thought that was a stand up thing to do. No other mechanic would have done this! He has my business and he is gonna keep my business.
Almost every one of KDRs customers are getting the anti det device done to there car and they havent been getting any complaints. Some people even praise how much better there car is running now. The problem everybody has, is they are expecting this device to be the end all problem fix for the rotary engine, and its not. Once you remedy one weak link of the motor, you start finding problems in the next weakest link of the motor.
04-25-05, 04:30 PM
#69
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by fastcarfreak
Some people even praise how much better there car is running now.
04-25-05, 04:46 PM
#70
3rd motors a charm I hope
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Central New York
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jimlab
And sugar pills can cure cancer if you believe that they're medicine...
It may be in their heads, but hell, thats all that really matters.
04-25-05, 04:56 PM
#72
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bimingham, AL
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well yes, that would be all that matters IF them thinking its fine it thier heads ended the symptom of blown engines....like sugar pills does
If this wasnt supposed to be the cure all then he shouldnt name it the "anti detonation device". The engine can still detonate for various reasons. He should name it the "cut your detonation chances down about 25% device".
If this wasnt supposed to be the cure all then he shouldnt name it the "anti detonation device". The engine can still detonate for various reasons. He should name it the "cut your detonation chances down about 25% device".
04-25-05, 05:09 PM
#73
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by fastcarfreak
You know what, if someone wants to believe that their problems are solved, with something as simple as sugar pills, hey let em. Its not hurting you is it?
It may be in their heads, but hell, thats all that really matters.
04-25-05, 05:13 PM
#74
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by rallimike
Fastcarfreak- give it up. You have your personal experience, but what do you know? Other people know better....because they do.
Originally Posted by SPOautos
well yes, that would be all that matters IF them thinking its fine it thier heads ended the symptom of blown engines....like sugar pills does
If this wasnt supposed to be the cure all then he shouldnt name it the "anti detonation device".
Last edited by jimlab; 04-25-05 at 05:16 PM.
04-25-05, 05:31 PM
#75
3rd motors a charm I hope
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Central New York
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SPOautos
If this wasnt supposed to be the cure all then he shouldnt name it the "anti detonation device". The engine can still detonate for various reasons. He should name it the "cut your detonation chances down about 25% device".
Its not like this device is breaking motors, ****, the motors break on their own. How many motors have you been through with your car, and how long have you had it?
I had just talked to a guy at rotary revolution, who has already been through 5 motors in his car since ownership. Thats a whole lot of motors. He now has water injection on his car (a said great detonation deterant) If you think thats the end of him breaking motors, then you are out of your mind. It may aid him with this problem a bit, and cut down on the motors that break, but its not gonna stop them from breaking. Maybe thats what this anti detonation device is doing. slowing the rate at which these motors break.
Also in response to your "cut your detonation chance by 25%", Even if this is indeed all that it does. Dont you think it is still well worth it. I for one would like my motor lasting say 25% longer. If the average motor rebuild costs anywhere from 2400-6000 dollars, 25 percent of that is 600-1500 dollars. This can be far more costy then the anti detonation device.
People need to stop hating!! lol
Adam