Kiflin

Do you guys this it would be possible to drop a v10 8 liter viper engine, or would it be too large and heavy...

Engine Specs...


Number of Cylinders
10
Displacement
8.0 liters (488 cu in)

Bore and Stroke
4.00" x 3.88"

Horsepower
450 hp ~ 5,200 rpm

Torque
490 Ib-ft C 3,700 rpm

Redline
6,000 rpm (6,200 rpm fuel shut-off)

Compression Ratio
9.6:1

Engine Design
90-degree V10. cast aluminum block with cast iron cylinder liners,
aluminum heads and crankcase

Firing Order
1,10-9.4-3,6-5,8-7.2 (unequal
firing 90-degree and 54-degree
intervals)

Crankshaft

Forged steel. six main bearings,
valve train overhead, with
pushrod-actuated rocker arms
and hydraulic roller lifters. dual
valve springs, two valves per
cylinder

Intake Manifolds
Aluminum, ram-tuned with dual
plenums

Exhaust Manifolds
High temperature ductile iron,
multiple branch design

Fuel Supply
Sequential multipoint fuel
injection with bottom-fed, high-
impedance injectors

Recommended Fuel
Premium unleaded

Emissions Controls
Three-way catalytic converters
with quad oxygen sensors, two
per side. feedback fuel-air ratio
control

Exhaust System
Stainless steel catalyst and
resonator in sill and muffler
assembly featuring rear exit
exhaust

Cooling System
Copper core radiator, electric fan,
two-row radiator design

wingsfan

Anything's possible, but you'd definately have to cut the firewall. The Viper engine looks alot like a SBC with an extra row of cylinders. It's too long front to back to fit without cutting things. The beauty of the LS1 conversions (once you get over the horror of the engine transplant) is that nothing is "irreversible".

Besides, with aftermarket heads, cams, and a stroker kit, you'd be making similar power to that Viper engine, and there's already a "kit" to make it fit. No messing with subframes, wiring, etc. Price would probably be in the same range. Plus, if you've ever been in a Viper the redline is like 5500 RPM, so for those of us high revving fanatics a built LS1 is a better choice.

And before anyone jumps on me, I know the rotary will rev higher than the LS1.

93redFD

never seen up under the hood of a viper, but heard that theres no room in the engine bay, and look how wide a viper is.

PsToNs SuK

I would like to know how different the LS1 redline is from the 5500 RPM of the Viper. It can't be too much higher. Also go ahead and do it Kiflin, I was at a truck show last weekend and they fit a viper motor in a damn PT CRUISER. So trust me anything can be done.

skunks

have you ever seen a viper engine, no ******* way it will fit (sorry about the language but it just won't)!!!

also note that the cost and engineering to make one fit is out of this world, not worth it.

peejay

Viper engines are just old Mopar 340's with a stroked crank and a pair of extra cylinders. Nothing too special. Mopar small blocks have always been fairly heavy engines and when you add more length it don't get any lighter

rpm? who cares about rpm. rpm means nothing in the real world. put in perspective: if you have an engine with a 2000-5000rpm powercurve, and another engine with a 4000-8000rpm powercurve, the lower revving engine has a wider torque curve since the range's maximum is 150% faster than the minimum, while the other engine only has a 100% spread. plus, which engine do you think would be happier running at peak HP all day, the 5000rpm engine or the 8000rpm one?

jimlab

The redline of the Viper V10 is 6,000 rpm, the same as the Camaro's LS1. The LS6 in the Z06 redlines at 6,500 rpm.

Those of you who are easily impressed by high redlines should be aware that it's more of an indication of how small the engine is than of anything else. To make proportionate power you have to spin the smaller engines much higher to ingest a proportionate amount of air (and fuel). Forced induction helps, obviously, but can't totally compensate for the lack of displacement, as evidenced by the peaky power curves and poor low end power of smaller engines. So before you jump to the conclusion that 8,000, 9,000 or 10,000 rpm redlines are great, think about what that says about the driveability of that engine.

A V8 can spin that high with the right parts. My 396 LT1 will turn 8,000+ rpm easily, if that were any sort of rational goal. It's not, though, for a streetable naturally aspirated engine. But the biggest difference is in low end power (torque) which allows you to take advantage of taller gears.

More torque means you need less (numerically lower) gear to get the car moving from a standing start. Taller gears means you can easily match (or exceed) the vehicle speed in each gear of a car with a smaller engine that needs a very short differential gear to get it into motion easily.

Case in point: the RX-7 manual needs a 4.10:1 rear gear, but the Viper only needs a 3.07. It's interesting to note that the Viper's 1st gear tops out at around 50-52 mph, while the RX-7 tops out around 38-40. Where'd the 2,000 rpm advantage go? Right out the window, if you could really call it an advantage in the first place. All that really matters is average power output over the useable rpm range, with appropriate gearing. And keeping package weight as light as possible.

A very light car with a close-ratio transmission, short rear gear, and a lot of power can be damn quick, obviously. But there is more than one way to skin a cat, and you don't necessarily have to spin the hell out of your engine to do it.

By the way, skunks is right... the V10 will never fit without major firewall modification and/or steering rack relocation. You'll also compromise ground clearance to get it to fit under a stock hood.

peejay

Another good point, and the other reason why I'm not so smitten with high winding screamer engines anymore... Rotational inertia goes up as the SQUARE of the RPM. An engine at 8500rpm has twice the rotational inertia as an engine at 6000rpm. If you have two engines with equal rotating mass, and equal power, but one has the power at 6k and the other at 8.5k, the lower revving engine will blow the doors off of the other one because it will be wasting less power in merely accelerating itself. Not only that, but since the higher revving engine would be in a lower gear, it would have to be revving itself more quickly in order to maintain the same rate of acceleration. Double-whammy against the high RPM engine.

I'm not saying that we should all run out and put turbodiesels under our hoods. But RPM for the sake of RPM is pointless and detrimental to the main goal, which is accelerating a car. GM knows this, and this is why they've dedicated their R&D to perfecting the combustion chamber shapes so they can run stupid high compression so relatively big engines can make big power at moderate RPM and get absurd cruising fuel economy all at the same time.

rotorbrain

stupid boingers!!!

NickSimcheck

Good posts by JimLab and Peejay. Also, I'll add that RPM = wear on the engine. It plays a part in why Diesel engines last forever even with that crazy side load put on the rods and 23-25 to 1 compression.

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

You want instant torque? Get two turbo diesels running at WFO throttle, connect them to a generator that connects to a bank of battery. Now hook that battery up to an electric motor. Now you're talking instant torque w/o any gearing.

Just trolling ...

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

It is a waste of time to talk about the V-10 fitting in the FD engine compartment. Talk about BIG, heavy, expensive, etc, etc... Not NEARLY enough room for cooling. It ain't gonna happen.

Popular Hot Rodding had a old Charger (I think) that the guy stuff a Viper motor into. He cut the firewall on that car, and remember they came with Hemis too.

Jeff

85Rex

I once saw a Jeep Wrangler with a Viper engine in it. It required a lot of cutting and moving stuff around.

peejay

I can think of a lot of better, cheaper ways to get only 488cid...