Hello,

is a aftermarket EMS outhere that support twin turbos?
I'm looking for a replacement for my PowerFC.

 

Adaptronic plugin

 

There was just a thread on this!

I will try to find it and link it here for you.

The short answer is this-
The stock ECU does MANY things. Do you need your replacement ECU to do all of those or just what the Power FC used to do?

Knock control/retard?
Emissions equipment control?
Full sequential turbo control?
Double Throttle control?
OMP control?
Diagnostics/Reporting (codes)?

 

OK, thread I was thinking of is for controlling stock sequential turbos and also being able to use flex fuel.

But, if I recall correctly; this thread lets you know what each ECU can and can't do.

https://www.rx7club.com/engine-manag...-fuel-1099351/

 

This is the relevant post from the thread I posted a link to.

Note that even the best ECU choice below does not offer knock control for the 13B as far as I know nor the diagnostics that Mazda dealer interface with (not that anyone outside of Japan has that support).

For the most functionality one would use the stock Mazda ECU (upgrade to later 16bit ECU if USA/CA emissions not needed) and have it ROM tuned for your modifications.
-----------

If you go through the list of needed low side outputs to run a stock form FD with Seq Twins, Emissions, A/C and OMP.

1. Fuel Pump Low Speed
2. Fuel Pump High Speed
3. Cooling Fan
4. Check Engine Light
5. Idle Control
6. Tach Output
7. A/C Output
8. Turbo Wastegate
9. Turbo Pre Control
10. Seq Turbo Exhaust Control
11. Seq Charge Control
12. Seq Charge Relief
13. Emissions, EVAP
14. Emissions, Pressure Regulator Control
15. Emissions, Switch Valve
16. Emissions, EGR
17. Emissions, AWS Solenoid
18. Emissions, Relief 1 Solenoid
19. Emissions, Relief 2 Solenoid
20. Emissions, Port Air Solenoid
21. Double Throttle
22. Air Pump

OMP Requires a 4 wire stepper motor control, and 1 0-5v input.

If you run a Relay and B+ power feed to the Fuel Pump, you can omit one of the Fuel Pump Outputs. Most ECUs don't have the means to have full control over pre-control and the wastegate control separately. If you go to a MAC valve or combine the factory solenoids you can omit another needed output. There are ways to combine the Sequential Turbo outputs to keep the control but you will find the transition will be pretty slow. Also some of the emissions devices are not 100% mandatory. Depending on what you are trying to do you can omit some of them. So realistically you are looking at needing between 10-22 outputs

Looking through the ECUs suited for Rotaries and with Flex fuel.

- Adaptronic Select PnP, 3 Low Side/PWM outputs, 5 Low Side Outputs (You loose 2 for OMP control, you will also loose one if you are running direct fire.)

- Adaptronic e1280s, 8 Low Side/PWM, (You will loose 2 for OMP control)

- Haltech PS1000, 3 PWM/DPO, 2 DPO, If you are waste spark You get one more, and OMP has dedicated outputs.

- Haltech PS2000, 3 PWM/DPO, 2 DPO, 2 IGN/DPO, 2 INJ/DPO, If waste spark you get one more and OMP has dedicated outputs.

- Haltech Elite 1500, 3 PWM/DPO, Fuel Pump and Main Relay on dedicated outputs, If you are waste spark You get one more, and OMP has dedicated outputs. If you dont run an OMP You get 4 more DPO.

- Haltech Elite 2500, 3 PWM/DPO, 4 INJ/DPO, 4 IGN/DPO, Fuel Pump and Main Relay on dedicated outputs, If you are waste spark You get one more, and OMP has dedicated outputs. If you dont run an OMP You get 4 more DPO.

- AEM Series II, 11 Low Side Drivers, 8 Spare Injector Drivers, 4 Stepper/Low Side Outputs, You will still have OMP and ability to run Direct fire ignition.

- AEM Infinity 6, 8 Low Side/PWM Outputs, has dedicated OMP outputs and you can still run Direct Fire Ignition.

To summarize, (keeping OMP and having direct fire)

Select Pnp, 5 outputs No
e1280s, 6 outputs No
PS1000, 5 outputs No
PS2000, 9 outputs Maybe
Elite 1500, 4 outputs No
Elite 2500, 12 outputs Yes
Series II, 23 outputs Yes
Infinity, 8 outputs No

So you have between the PS2000, Elite 2500 and the AEM Series II. The PS2000 is $1550 plus wiring, The Elite 2500 is $1950 plus wiring, The AEM Series II is $1280 plus wiring. Wiring can be between $6-700 for a custom patch harnesses or upwards of $2500-3000 fr a good quality PnP Motorsports harness.

IMO, I would choose the Series II if I want to keep as much as possible. If I was OK with removing some of the emissions, I would push AEM to release firmware for the Infinity 8. That wont happen for a few months though,... Realistically If you are OK with not having all of the functions I would choose the Elite 2500 with a patch harness.

EB Turbo

 

Im am also looking for ECU options.
What im looking for is a full factory repalcement that can doe verything the OEM ECU does, and also meth/water injection + what other goodies can be added. Must be plug in.

My current "best" option is making a custom PCB for the Megasquirt Pro board, that bolts to my car.

 

What im looking for is a full factory repalcement that can doe verything the OEM ECU does, and also meth/water injection + what other goodies can be added. Must be plug in.

No you don't.

You really haven't considered or don't know all of what the factory ECU does.

To do so, you will probably have to get the FD Factory Service Manual and figure out everything the ECU does.

List the functions you want.
------------

Examples of why I say this-

Do you really need full Mazda diagnostics/service support (you won't get it anyways unless you have a JDM FD in Japan)?

Do you really need full knock control (you won't get it anyways unless you fund an engine development program for 13B-REW- then Motec would be happy to work parameters up for you).

 

Good point But what i do know is that when i say
- All emission equipment working
- Full Twin-Turbo functionality
- A/C
- Water Injection

the response is pretty slim I really dont know what i want, or what i really need. People say "just go PFC" but i dont know what that does either. So my only point of reference is the OEM ecu

 

Good point But what i do know is that when i say
- All emission equipment working
- Full Twin-Turbo functionality
- A/C
- Water Injection

the response is pretty slim I really dont know what i want, or what i really need. People say "just go PFC" but i dont know what that does either. So my only point of reference is the OEM ecu


Yes, I don't know of anything plug and play, but an adapter patch harness or complete new harness could be made for you to use a capable ECU.

So you have between the PS2000, Elite 2500 and the AEM Series II. The PS2000 is $1550 plus wiring, The Elite 2500 is $1950 plus wiring, The AEM Series II is $1280 plus wiring. Wiring can be between $6-700 for a custom patch harnesses or upwards of $2500-3000 fr a good quality PnP Motorsports harness.

 

Thats why i have been contemplating using the Megasquirt MS-Pro, if it has enough outputs. There i can make my own PCB that fits the ECU box, then mount the ECU PCB on that and put it in a guttet OEM ECU box.

Problem is, i dont know enough to translate the outputs to match the list above
http://www.ms3pro.com/_downloads/ms3pro_wiring_web.pdf

 

We've done it with the Elite ECU and full replacement harness esses. Could also be done with a custom patch loom. Would be able to integrate the water injection control into the ECU as well.

 

The Modular Adaptronic PNP will be available shortly and will suit all of our needs at the cost of only $1349. We have our first unit enroute to us at the moment. It has a lot more I/O than the select models mentioned above;

Adaptronic Modular Mazda Rx-7 PNP ECU

 

An aftermarket ECU is only needed if you need to map in more fuel and more fuel is only needed if you are flowing more air (intake/exhaust/boost)

A chipped ECU (ala Pettit) may be a good compromise for a mostly stock setup

 

A chipped ECU (ala Pettit) may be a good compromise for a mostly stock setup

In Japan they sometimes even use ROM tuned stock ECU for single turbo conversions, larger injectors, etc etc.

I wouldn't trust a "mail order' tune with these extensive mods unless it was part of a package developed by the tuner (all the same aftermarket parts the tuner uses).

However, I went the ROM tuned route for my more stock set-up.
Bought a used ROM tuned Knight Sports ECU, DL their programming request sheet, translated it and sent it off with the ECU to be programmed so I was sure the parameters I wanted were in the ECU.

Plugged in and ran smoother than stock ECU right away with good AFRs (they matched my mods well).

I just took it to the limit of the stock fuel system, so if I upgrade more I will have to get an aftermarket ECU. But at least I will be able to sell the Knight Sports ROM tune ECU.

A simple Hobbs switch added to the intake manifold/piping can turn on the water injection.
I like integration, but not enough to pay $2,000+ to eliminate one Hobbs switch easily hidden in an otherwise pretty stock engine bay (except apparently all the water injection hardware).

 

Will this fit in the stock ECU box?

 

Why would you want to?

 

In Germany it is VERY hard to keep an automobile registered with any aftermarket modifications that are not ABE/TUV.

Probably trying to get around that.

But, I don't see how he will hide the water injection system and cannot hide a hobbs switch to activate it.

 

Thats about right. Aftermarket mods are frowned upon. Even if we all know that a properly tuned new ECU will run cleaner and better than the stock one, i would have to document it with TÜV/ABE papers costing me a fortune. So id rather just pretend it a stock ECU.

And everyone knows how an aftermarket ECU looks like, so an inspection would reveal that quickly A stock ECU box with solderd screwheads would not be touched

1 - Nobody here knows exactly how a FD engine bay is supposed to look like, so the chance of them spotting a properly set up system is small. There was FDs sold new in Norway, and only 1152 ever in europe.
2 - If they spot it, water injection is not a performance mod on a otherwise stock engine, its a reliability mod, and since the ECU looks OEM, in in the clear

 

For an inspection, they will rip interior panels off to look for something they shouldn't even expect to find?

 

ROM tune stock ECU with add on water injection still sounds pretty reasonable to me in the scenario as described.

 

They can ask to have a look and if i refuse, they would eant to look even more and call me inn for a more detaield ispection and require me to show them the ECU.

Yeah, but im not sure if i can get anyone here to do it. Everyone just go standalone and gives a **** in the danger for an inspection. I really should do that aswell, but i like to have things in "proper" order. Somewhat OCD light with my cars x)


But the new Adaptronic looks to be perfect! I think i can make it work in a stock looking ECU case, and print some Mazda stickers to put on it
The MAJOR selling point is android app support, so i dont need any dash gauges.

 

Keep in mind that there are the inputs and outputs, and then there is the control logic. Just because on paper the box can drive whatever you want it to drive doesn't mean it's flexible enough to control it with the out-of-the-box map and logic.

For example, I don't think any of these ECUs have the right control logic to run the stock emissions systems completely like stock. I'm not sure if the PFC even does it right. There are a bunch of conditional situations where the various solenoids turn on and off based on temperature, speed and load, timers, etc. I'm not saying that's 100% necessary, but you have to think beyond lists of inputs and outputs.

For example, if you want to run stock sequential turbos in a manner similar to stock, you need to make sure you have the right number of maps, hysteresis logic, feedback controls, etc.

 

The new modular pnp is only 1400?!? Im so sad that I bought my Select ecu in June...Knew I should have waited...

 

This is where the Arbitrary Logic Function in all the modular units ( easier version of the advanced mode in the current E1280s– the ability to implement any software logic you want) will come in handy.

This is still in development at the moment however.

 

Haltech Elite now has dedicated firmware code for the sequential system. Select it as an output option and the required outputs are pre configured. Basically select a transition RPM and calibrate for the desired boost level and you're done.

In addition, if you wanted to manually configure something with timers and multiple axis control, the firmware and hardware already supports it. No waiting for promises. Already available and proven.