Adding fuel to the fire - Fuel question!
11-23-11, 01:19 AM
#1
Adding fuel to the fire - Fuel question!
I have been doing a lot of research, and I'm still left wondering what I should do about my fuel system. I want to revamp the entire thing, but I'm really unsure of how I should go about doing it. Figured I would ask to see what everyone else is running and how happy they are with their set ups.
Just to give you some background on the car..
1993
Street ported motor
Stock twins
Stock fuel system
Apexi Power FC.
Greddy profec b boost controller
Greddy style FMIC
Greddy Type S BOV
Koyo N-Flow radiator
3" DP, straight to Greddy SP exhaust. No cats.
Parts waiting to go on the car:
Greddy pullies
Hose kit from HoseTechniques
Supra TT fuel pump
Basically, the car has been having driving issues. When the car is warm, I can't rev past 3000 rpm when at WOT. The car stutters and starts to bog. It's quite annoying and after troubleshooting in various ways, I'm thinking of redoing the entire fuel system and seeing where that gets me. I have the money now, so I'd rather get it all bought before the money gets spent somewhere else.
I wish to daily drive the car, so I don't want any ridiculous idle issues or anything like that, but I still want to have a set up that will be sufficient in the event that I wish to convert to a single turbo one day.
I already have a brand new supra pump, but I'm not exactly sure of how I should go about everything else.
Do I just go with a kit from rx7store?
Do I go with the Xcessive LIM, and 4 injectors on the accompanying custom rail?
Do I piece together something entirely different?
After countless searches, I'm pretty convinced that I'm gonna go with ID injectors over Bosche's just because of the updated design and and whatnot, but even then I'm not quite sure what I should do as far as sizing goes. Then you introduce the Xcessive LIM and that's a whole new set of options.
Basically.... what sort of set up are you running, and how is it working for you? What are your suggestions for me?
My goals:
Daily drive
Reliable fuel delivery so I don't blow myself [or my motor, mainly] up.
Sufficient/versatile enough to support future plans of a big turbo set up.
In addition.. what other mods would you all recommend to do in conjunction with the fuel overhaul? I know spark is going to be an issue, but how necessary is it to go with, say the HKS twinpower, or to integrate other important items like meth injection and such at this stage?
Lastly.. am I missing anything obvious I should be changing out at the same time as all of this? I read it's a good time to replace the FPD when doing all this.. Yay or nay? And what else would be recommended?
I'm willing to replace as much as I need to replace in order to get the car running consistently and reliably. I plan on doing new gaskets in a lot of areas as well, as I can definitely smell exhaust leaks left and right. It's just a matter of finding which gaskets [if not all!] need replacing. haha
Thanks for any input! It's greatly appreciated.
Just to give you some background on the car..
1993
Street ported motor
Stock twins
Stock fuel system
Apexi Power FC.
Greddy profec b boost controller
Greddy style FMIC
Greddy Type S BOV
Koyo N-Flow radiator
3" DP, straight to Greddy SP exhaust. No cats.
Parts waiting to go on the car:
Greddy pullies
Hose kit from HoseTechniques
Supra TT fuel pump
Basically, the car has been having driving issues. When the car is warm, I can't rev past 3000 rpm when at WOT. The car stutters and starts to bog. It's quite annoying and after troubleshooting in various ways, I'm thinking of redoing the entire fuel system and seeing where that gets me. I have the money now, so I'd rather get it all bought before the money gets spent somewhere else.
I wish to daily drive the car, so I don't want any ridiculous idle issues or anything like that, but I still want to have a set up that will be sufficient in the event that I wish to convert to a single turbo one day.
I already have a brand new supra pump, but I'm not exactly sure of how I should go about everything else.
Do I just go with a kit from rx7store?
Do I go with the Xcessive LIM, and 4 injectors on the accompanying custom rail?
Do I piece together something entirely different?
After countless searches, I'm pretty convinced that I'm gonna go with ID injectors over Bosche's just because of the updated design and and whatnot, but even then I'm not quite sure what I should do as far as sizing goes. Then you introduce the Xcessive LIM and that's a whole new set of options.
Basically.... what sort of set up are you running, and how is it working for you? What are your suggestions for me?
My goals:
Daily drive
Reliable fuel delivery so I don't blow myself [or my motor, mainly] up.
Sufficient/versatile enough to support future plans of a big turbo set up.
In addition.. what other mods would you all recommend to do in conjunction with the fuel overhaul? I know spark is going to be an issue, but how necessary is it to go with, say the HKS twinpower, or to integrate other important items like meth injection and such at this stage?
Lastly.. am I missing anything obvious I should be changing out at the same time as all of this? I read it's a good time to replace the FPD when doing all this.. Yay or nay? And what else would be recommended?
I'm willing to replace as much as I need to replace in order to get the car running consistently and reliably. I plan on doing new gaskets in a lot of areas as well, as I can definitely smell exhaust leaks left and right. It's just a matter of finding which gaskets [if not all!] need replacing. haha
Thanks for any input! It's greatly appreciated.
11-23-11, 02:08 AM
#2
you can either stay with stock primaries or go with the ID 720s in the primary position. at a minimum, go with 1300s for secondaries, but since you are looking at ID's then 2000s will do just fine especially for the future when you go for a single.
as for pump.... either a twin supra setup or a single bosch 044 will do you good as well for being future proof.
the question of the FPD, yes, getting rid of it while youre messing with the fuel system is a plus, since you'll need a FPR and that takes the place of the FPD duties.
dont think too far ahead if you want the Xcessive LIM. you'll be going overboard here. keep it simple. you wont need the 2 extra injector bosses at the moment until you're ready for big boost/big power.
even with 6000cc's of injector flow, its plenty for about 500ish hp
as for pump.... either a twin supra setup or a single bosch 044 will do you good as well for being future proof.
the question of the FPD, yes, getting rid of it while youre messing with the fuel system is a plus, since you'll need a FPR and that takes the place of the FPD duties.
dont think too far ahead if you want the Xcessive LIM. you'll be going overboard here. keep it simple. you wont need the 2 extra injector bosses at the moment until you're ready for big boost/big power.
even with 6000cc's of injector flow, its plenty for about 500ish hp
11-23-11, 12:46 PM
#4
@cptpain
Thanks.. That's what I had been reading, is that the 720/2000 set up works pretty well, especially for helping keep a decently smooth idle.
For some reason, I wasn't understanding that the FPD is supposed to be doing what the FPR does. So thanks for that clarification, as well.
@tiifc
Yeah.. we're thinking it's something fuel related, which is why we're gonna go this route. The car sat untouched [and not even turned on] for a number of years, so a lot of the components need servicing. Instead of sending things out for cleaning, I'd rather just replace them now, since I planned on doing so anyway.
Thanks.. That's what I had been reading, is that the 720/2000 set up works pretty well, especially for helping keep a decently smooth idle.
For some reason, I wasn't understanding that the FPD is supposed to be doing what the FPR does. So thanks for that clarification, as well.
@tiifc
Yeah.. we're thinking it's something fuel related, which is why we're gonna go this route. The car sat untouched [and not even turned on] for a number of years, so a lot of the components need servicing. Instead of sending things out for cleaning, I'd rather just replace them now, since I planned on doing so anyway.
11-25-11, 04:08 PM
#5
For your goals, you would be better off with stock primaries and boring out the stock secondaries to 1200 or 1300 cc by RCEng.com
Your problem probably has nothing to do with your fuel system.
Has the PFC ever been dyno tuned by a real rotary tuner (Steve kan)?
Your problem probably has nothing to do with your fuel system.
Has the PFC ever been dyno tuned by a real rotary tuner (Steve kan)?
11-25-11, 04:34 PM
#7
F'n Newbie...
iTrader: (6)
Yeah, like others have said, fix what's broken before you go about upgrading stuff.
Your 3000rpm issues probably aren't fuel related, but have more to do with your tune or some other aspect if your engine.
What boost do you plan on running? The stock fuel system can support up to about 13psi on stock ports/twins, but I wouldn't choose to run it like that for very long...
I would avoid the bored out injectors personally, it just seems like a cheap short-cut which could lead to more expensive repairs in the long run.
Also, you need to be sure you have your wastegate ported out, or some kind of restriction in place within your exhaust if you want to run a straight exhaust w/o cats. You're just asking for boost creep otherwise, and no amount of EBC's will be able to fix that.
Your 3000rpm issues probably aren't fuel related, but have more to do with your tune or some other aspect if your engine.
What boost do you plan on running? The stock fuel system can support up to about 13psi on stock ports/twins, but I wouldn't choose to run it like that for very long...
I would avoid the bored out injectors personally, it just seems like a cheap short-cut which could lead to more expensive repairs in the long run.
Also, you need to be sure you have your wastegate ported out, or some kind of restriction in place within your exhaust if you want to run a straight exhaust w/o cats. You're just asking for boost creep otherwise, and no amount of EBC's will be able to fix that.
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11-25-11, 05:43 PM
#8
i tuned the car last year but i believe it's sat on and off for a while, it ran quite well when it left but i haven't taken a look over the car since the issue developed as i haven't seen it back yet until the upgrade parts are ordered. i honestly would like to take a look and figure out the issue before tossing thousands of $ at it in the hopes that that cures the issue.
for the fuel system i would go with the most typical route which would be a KG parts rail set for simplicity to get rid of the whole side feed system and use all top feed injectors with an Aeromotive A1000 regulator in series for less than 500WHP or in parallel with twin pumps for above 500 wheel horsepower with the single.
i also suppose something could have happened with the commander that adjusted one of the settings somehow, but i can only guess without looking things over, with the colder weather it could also be spiking in boost and hitting the boost cut which i set just above the 12-13psi i had it tuned to, which is still quite possible even at 3k RPMs. the commander does have a lockout but i never see anyone use it so if it gets jammed under a seat or smashed under someone's *** anything can happen to the tune, unlikely but still possible.
i would only think about the Xcessive LIM if you decide to go with E85, as of now the PFC has no way of controlling the additional injectors without possibly overloading the drivers and killing the ECU.
for the fuel system i would go with the most typical route which would be a KG parts rail set for simplicity to get rid of the whole side feed system and use all top feed injectors with an Aeromotive A1000 regulator in series for less than 500WHP or in parallel with twin pumps for above 500 wheel horsepower with the single.
i also suppose something could have happened with the commander that adjusted one of the settings somehow, but i can only guess without looking things over, with the colder weather it could also be spiking in boost and hitting the boost cut which i set just above the 12-13psi i had it tuned to, which is still quite possible even at 3k RPMs. the commander does have a lockout but i never see anyone use it so if it gets jammed under a seat or smashed under someone's *** anything can happen to the tune, unlikely but still possible.
i would only think about the Xcessive LIM if you decide to go with E85, as of now the PFC has no way of controlling the additional injectors without possibly overloading the drivers and killing the ECU.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-25-11 at 05:49 PM.
12-04-11, 04:13 PM
#9
we took the car out last night and it ran perfect... no issue with the harness rubbing at the LF, all the lines were in place and intact but the main engine harness has definitely seen better days. anyways i couldn't find anything as the issue couldn't be duplicated at the time. definitely sounds secondary injector related though.
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