3rd gen car fires
01-27-02, 12:00 AM
#1
Chad Carson
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3rd gen car fires
Can anyone tell me why I see so many 3rd gens that caught on fire?
I have never owned a 3rd gen so it is something I would like to know.
I have owned a 89TII, 87GXL,86SE,87SE, and currently have
85GSL-SE, 85S, 83GS
I have never owned a 3rd gen so it is something I would like to know.
I have owned a 89TII, 87GXL,86SE,87SE, and currently have
85GSL-SE, 85S, 83GS
01-27-02, 11:26 AM
#6
Rotary Enthusiast
The pulsation dampener is used to smooth out the pulses caused by the injectors; if the rubber nipple on top of the dampener breaks, as it will after excessive heat and time, the diaphram inside falls and allows fuel to come out of the top hole.
If the injector O rings crack or fail, normally you will get leaky injectors which normally result in frequent flooding, not always engine fires.
I have replaced the pulsation dampener on my 93 and on my 94. It is a PIA to replace. However when you do the work, you will know why it is important to fix immediately. When you remove the intake manifold, you will have to pressurize the system just to see where you are getting the leak from. You connect the fuel pump on the diagnostics box, and you will build pressure; then you will see almost a small fountain of fuel coming out of the dampener. And guess where the excess fuel goes? It pools right on top of the engine next to the lower intake manifold, not to mention getting to the hotter exhaust components.
If the injector O rings crack or fail, normally you will get leaky injectors which normally result in frequent flooding, not always engine fires.
I have replaced the pulsation dampener on my 93 and on my 94. It is a PIA to replace. However when you do the work, you will know why it is important to fix immediately. When you remove the intake manifold, you will have to pressurize the system just to see where you are getting the leak from. You connect the fuel pump on the diagnostics box, and you will build pressure; then you will see almost a small fountain of fuel coming out of the dampener. And guess where the excess fuel goes? It pools right on top of the engine next to the lower intake manifold, not to mention getting to the hotter exhaust components.
01-27-02, 02:59 PM
#7
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Another reason for engine fires is coolant leaks. Antifreeze is actually flammable. Once you evaporate the water from it, it is a fire waiting to happen.
Do you remember about 10 years (?) ago when the price of Antifreeze was only about $2 a gallon? There was only two plants manufacturing antifreeze and one of them caught on fire. Immediately, the price of antifreeze jumped up to $6-$8 a gallon. Supply and demand.
The plant burned down because the antifreeze was just like a fuel. Burned everything crispier than KFC extra crispy.
Tim
PS Also, If all recalls are properly done, these problems are partly resolved. The Pulsation Damper is a good component to replace to prevent another fire.
NOTE: TSB Information for RX7's
22. RECALL: ENGINE COMPARTMENT CATCHES FIRE WITHOUT WARNING
Affects 1993-1994 RX-7 models manufactured before Dec. 21, 1994.
Beginning in 1993, a number of RX-7s burst into flames without
warning. The NHTSA investigated and concluded in a report by Jeff
Quandt that turbocharger malfunctions were to blame for the fires.
(A free copy of report #PE94-009 may be obtained by calling the
NHTSA hotline on 1-800-424-9393)
Mazda redesigned the turbo charger housings on August 1, 1993 but
claimed in a letter to the NHTSA that the redesign was simply to
make the turbocharger housings easier to manufacture.
Mazda conducted their own investigation on four test cars
and concluded that the fires were caused by leaks in the cooling
system. They claimed that coolant pooled on top of the engine,
became concentrated by boiling, and then caught fire as it dripped
onto a hot exhaust. The fact that a recall involving the cooling
system cost Mazda a few hundred dollars per car versus a few
thousand dollars for turbo charger replacement may have had
something to do with their claim. The text of the recall letter
follows:
--------------
1993-94 RX-7 Coolant Leak [Recall Campaign #54407]
Dear RX-7 Owner:
This notice is sent to you in accordance with the requirements of
the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act.
Mazda has determined that a defect which relates to motor vehicle
safety exists in certain 1993-94 RX-7 models. We have decided to
conduct Recall Campaign #54407 for replacement of selected engine
cooling system components in those vehicles, beginning August 8,
1994.
26. FUEL LEAKAGE RECALL - ENGINE FIRES
CAMPAIGN #60504
The problem is that fuel lines become brittle because of excessive
engine compartment temperatures. Eventually, they leak fuel and the
car catches fire. The recall involves replacing the fuel lines with
a different material and adding a fan control relay which runs the
cooling fan for 10 minutes after the engine is shut off.
Affects:
All 1993 RX-7 models manufactured beginning December 1, 1991
and 1994 RX-7 models manufactured through September, 1994.
VINs affected:
JM1FD33**P0200001 - JM1FD33**R0303550
Total number of affected vehicles: 13,400
Repair Time: 3.8 hours
Install Part Nos.
N3A1-18-SE0 Fan Control Kit
N3A1-13-S70 Fuel Hose Kit
The following is a portion of a letter from the Vice President of Mazda
North America to the NHTSA dated March 30, 1995:
Mazda first learned of an engine compartment fire in an RX-7 which
had the recall remedy conducted in November, 1994. In January,
1995, Mazda engineers investigated seven RX-7 engine fires in the
United States and in the same month, NHTSA's information request
on the completion rate for the on-going safety recall campaign was
issued.
Mazda submitted a partial response on February 8, 1995 and a
complete response on February 22, 1995 in which Mazda reported
that it knew of 18 fire cases in which investigations in the U.S. found
evidence of fuel seepage from the fuel hoses on those vehicles.
In order to identify the cause of the fuel seepage, thorough
investigations and analyses have been conducted. In March, 1995,
Mazda identified the cause of fuel seepage and reported it to NHTSA
on March 22, 1995. Mazda concluded on March 24, 1995 that a
defect existed and that a recall was required.
Mazda Motor Corporation will notify all subject vehicle owners by
letter and will install an additional control unit for the electric
cooling
fan. The fan activates after the engine is turned off when the coolant
exceeds a specified temperature. Mazda will also replace the fuel
hoses with modified hoses in all these vehicles without charge.
Do you remember about 10 years (?) ago when the price of Antifreeze was only about $2 a gallon? There was only two plants manufacturing antifreeze and one of them caught on fire. Immediately, the price of antifreeze jumped up to $6-$8 a gallon. Supply and demand.
The plant burned down because the antifreeze was just like a fuel. Burned everything crispier than KFC extra crispy.
Tim
PS Also, If all recalls are properly done, these problems are partly resolved. The Pulsation Damper is a good component to replace to prevent another fire.
NOTE: TSB Information for RX7's
22. RECALL: ENGINE COMPARTMENT CATCHES FIRE WITHOUT WARNING
Affects 1993-1994 RX-7 models manufactured before Dec. 21, 1994.
Beginning in 1993, a number of RX-7s burst into flames without
warning. The NHTSA investigated and concluded in a report by Jeff
Quandt that turbocharger malfunctions were to blame for the fires.
(A free copy of report #PE94-009 may be obtained by calling the
NHTSA hotline on 1-800-424-9393)
Mazda redesigned the turbo charger housings on August 1, 1993 but
claimed in a letter to the NHTSA that the redesign was simply to
make the turbocharger housings easier to manufacture.
Mazda conducted their own investigation on four test cars
and concluded that the fires were caused by leaks in the cooling
system. They claimed that coolant pooled on top of the engine,
became concentrated by boiling, and then caught fire as it dripped
onto a hot exhaust. The fact that a recall involving the cooling
system cost Mazda a few hundred dollars per car versus a few
thousand dollars for turbo charger replacement may have had
something to do with their claim. The text of the recall letter
follows:
--------------
1993-94 RX-7 Coolant Leak [Recall Campaign #54407]
Dear RX-7 Owner:
This notice is sent to you in accordance with the requirements of
the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act.
Mazda has determined that a defect which relates to motor vehicle
safety exists in certain 1993-94 RX-7 models. We have decided to
conduct Recall Campaign #54407 for replacement of selected engine
cooling system components in those vehicles, beginning August 8,
1994.
26. FUEL LEAKAGE RECALL - ENGINE FIRES
CAMPAIGN #60504
The problem is that fuel lines become brittle because of excessive
engine compartment temperatures. Eventually, they leak fuel and the
car catches fire. The recall involves replacing the fuel lines with
a different material and adding a fan control relay which runs the
cooling fan for 10 minutes after the engine is shut off.
Affects:
All 1993 RX-7 models manufactured beginning December 1, 1991
and 1994 RX-7 models manufactured through September, 1994.
VINs affected:
JM1FD33**P0200001 - JM1FD33**R0303550
Total number of affected vehicles: 13,400
Repair Time: 3.8 hours
Install Part Nos.
N3A1-18-SE0 Fan Control Kit
N3A1-13-S70 Fuel Hose Kit
The following is a portion of a letter from the Vice President of Mazda
North America to the NHTSA dated March 30, 1995:
Mazda first learned of an engine compartment fire in an RX-7 which
had the recall remedy conducted in November, 1994. In January,
1995, Mazda engineers investigated seven RX-7 engine fires in the
United States and in the same month, NHTSA's information request
on the completion rate for the on-going safety recall campaign was
issued.
Mazda submitted a partial response on February 8, 1995 and a
complete response on February 22, 1995 in which Mazda reported
that it knew of 18 fire cases in which investigations in the U.S. found
evidence of fuel seepage from the fuel hoses on those vehicles.
In order to identify the cause of the fuel seepage, thorough
investigations and analyses have been conducted. In March, 1995,
Mazda identified the cause of fuel seepage and reported it to NHTSA
on March 22, 1995. Mazda concluded on March 24, 1995 that a
defect existed and that a recall was required.
Mazda Motor Corporation will notify all subject vehicle owners by
letter and will install an additional control unit for the electric
cooling
fan. The fan activates after the engine is turned off when the coolant
exceeds a specified temperature. Mazda will also replace the fuel
hoses with modified hoses in all these vehicles without charge.
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01-27-02, 07:02 PM
#8
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Originally posted by atihun
The pulsation dampener is used to smooth out the pulses caused by the injectors; if the rubber nipple on top of the dampener breaks, as it will after excessive heat and time, the diaphram inside falls and allows fuel to come out of the top hole.
If the injector O rings crack or fail, normally you will get leaky injectors which normally result in frequent flooding, not always engine fires.
I have replaced the pulsation dampener on my 93 and on my 94. It is a PIA to replace. However when you do the work, you will know why it is important to fix immediately. When you remove the intake manifold, you will have to pressurize the system just to see where you are getting the leak from. You connect the fuel pump on the diagnostics box, and you will build pressure; then you will see almost a small fountain of fuel coming out of the dampener. And guess where the excess fuel goes? It pools right on top of the engine next to the lower intake manifold, not to mention getting to the hotter exhaust components.
The pulsation dampener is used to smooth out the pulses caused by the injectors; if the rubber nipple on top of the dampener breaks, as it will after excessive heat and time, the diaphram inside falls and allows fuel to come out of the top hole.
If the injector O rings crack or fail, normally you will get leaky injectors which normally result in frequent flooding, not always engine fires.
I have replaced the pulsation dampener on my 93 and on my 94. It is a PIA to replace. However when you do the work, you will know why it is important to fix immediately. When you remove the intake manifold, you will have to pressurize the system just to see where you are getting the leak from. You connect the fuel pump on the diagnostics box, and you will build pressure; then you will see almost a small fountain of fuel coming out of the dampener. And guess where the excess fuel goes? It pools right on top of the engine next to the lower intake manifold, not to mention getting to the hotter exhaust components.
So I replaced it (VERY hard to do not very much fun), I put it all back together and drove it a little, however I still smelled gas, So this weekend I pulled the plenum AGAIN and the injector right next to the dampner was leaking... So I'm going to get an o - ring and see if that fixes the problem....
The moral to this story is check, then recheck,,, then check again before you put everything back together.
I pretty much know that area like the back of my hand now so if you have any questions please just ask!
01-27-02, 08:51 PM
#9
Chad Carson
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thanks
Thanks for all of the info. I really like the recall info also.
Maybe one day I can upgrade to a 93. The only problem is that i want the yellow one.
I sure there are only a few out there. That might be like trying to find the exact 10th Ann. car I want. It is hard to find one with black leather and still has the Mazda 10th wheels and seats at a fair price.
Maybe one day I can upgrade to a 93. The only problem is that i want the yellow one.
I sure there are only a few out there. That might be like trying to find the exact 10th Ann. car I want. It is hard to find one with black leather and still has the Mazda 10th wheels and seats at a fair price.
01-28-02, 12:25 PM
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I have a question for you alll... I've always thought my car was just running rich with a bad ECU, but I'm not sure anymore... I took my car into mazda last year to do all the recalls but I have a feeling they may have skipped over the Fuel recal because a fan relay box was never installed at the ECU....
I opened the hood this morning and smelled no fuel at all under the hood... I cranked it up and immediately smelled fuel at the passenger side of the intake manifold... only area where I smelled fuel. When I went to the back to smell the exhaust, it smelled exaclty the same... Is this a fuel leak? Also I took it for a spin and drove it fairly hard... I came back and popped the hood and could not smell a drop of fuel... did it just evaporate? And when I came back to the car after letting it sit for five min, I still couldnt smell any fuel...
I opened the hood this morning and smelled no fuel at all under the hood... I cranked it up and immediately smelled fuel at the passenger side of the intake manifold... only area where I smelled fuel. When I went to the back to smell the exhaust, it smelled exaclty the same... Is this a fuel leak? Also I took it for a spin and drove it fairly hard... I came back and popped the hood and could not smell a drop of fuel... did it just evaporate? And when I came back to the car after letting it sit for five min, I still couldnt smell any fuel...
01-28-02, 01:08 PM
#13
Ex fd *****
Originally posted by edpaek
also.... how do I check if Mazda did the recall correctly... what should I see and where?
also.... how do I check if Mazda did the recall correctly... what should I see and where?
Same Question - Mazda claims to have done all the recals on My 93 but I DO NOT have a fan relay that will run the fans after shut off - Regardless of temp my fans die when the key is turned off. I do know for a fact that I do have the upgraded fuel lines, and MARIAH put in a NEW pulsation damper on my Rebuilt motor - They do that on all Rebuilts they install.
01-28-02, 01:22 PM
#14
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I also smell gas on the passenger side of the car. I havel already bought the pulsation dampener. It's all metal with a small neck that has a rubber o-ring on it. I've read the other replies and some people pointed out that it will crack when it's old but if it's made by metal then how can it crack? I would think unless the o-ring is hard and cracked and gasoline is leaking out a little bit.
01-28-02, 02:41 PM
#16
I bought a 93 in Dec that had an engine fire, I figured during the course of the repairs that I'd find the cause of the fire, never did.
The fire was pretty small, damaging only the wiring harness, injector connectors, ACV and some of the front solenoids. The cooling system was completly intact along with the fuel system. I didn't see any problems, and since the fire was so small it didn't seem possible to have been started by gas.
Anyway I pretty much conceeded to myself that it would have had to have been from either gasoline or coolant, I just didn't see any evidence that it was either. I guess if the injectors had a small leak they could have spilled a small amount fuel which caught fire.
Either way it is running again!
Jeff
93 R1
93 Base
87 TII
The fire was pretty small, damaging only the wiring harness, injector connectors, ACV and some of the front solenoids. The cooling system was completly intact along with the fuel system. I didn't see any problems, and since the fire was so small it didn't seem possible to have been started by gas.
Anyway I pretty much conceeded to myself that it would have had to have been from either gasoline or coolant, I just didn't see any evidence that it was either. I guess if the injectors had a small leak they could have spilled a small amount fuel which caught fire.
Either way it is running again!
Jeff
93 R1
93 Base
87 TII
01-29-02, 12:41 PM
#19
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the fan control kits that were added in the recall do fail. if you want to make sure mazda did the recalls you need to call them with your vin#.
fuel leaks: they usually start with the pulsation damper, and then the injector o rings, and in some cases the injectors will leak through the electrical connector.
mike
93 cym 90k original turbos, pd, vaccum hoses etc
no fires yet!
fuel leaks: they usually start with the pulsation damper, and then the injector o rings, and in some cases the injectors will leak through the electrical connector.
mike
93 cym 90k original turbos, pd, vaccum hoses etc
no fires yet!
01-31-02, 07:21 PM
#22
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Originally posted by j9fd3s
fuel leaks: they usually start with the pulsation damper, and then the injector o rings, and in some cases the injectors will leak through the electrical connector.
mike
93 cym 90k original turbos, pd, vaccum hoses etc
no fires yet!
fuel leaks: they usually start with the pulsation damper, and then the injector o rings, and in some cases the injectors will leak through the electrical connector.
mike
93 cym 90k original turbos, pd, vaccum hoses etc
no fires yet!
If gas is leaking through to the electrical connector is that a sure sign of a bad injector?
I called the local Mazda dealer and they want $312 for a new primary injector
Last edited by accurizing; 01-31-02 at 07:28 PM.
01-31-02, 08:27 PM
#23
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Well my friend you and I are right about at the same place except I am doing things a little differently, My car has 111K miles on it and I also replaced the Pulsation Dampner, well I saw some area still leaking near one of the primary injectors, but I decided once I pulled one of them that they needed to be cleaned and check by a professional. That is why I am sending mine out to RC Engineering tomorrow to be cleaned and flow tested.
