Howdy!

So if you haven't seen my new build thread, I'm going through my engine and going single turbo (8374).

I built my current engine in 2007 and it's been a champ. One thing that has always been an issue is a weeping oil pan, it's JUST ENOUGH to be messy but definitely not enough to try and fix it in the car and just make it worse.

I installed that (used) pan with (I think) Hondabond, installed upside-down on an engine stand, and used the Garfinkle oil pan brace. Sumbitch still leaked.

So...my goal this time is to FINALLY seal that joker up. I have a Chips Motorsports brace from like 8 years ago that's been in my Hope Chest o' Parts and I will be ordering a new oil pan.

That said, what is the current go-to RTV for oil pans? Would love one that comes in a large caulking tube so I can apply with a caulk gun and not have to squeeze a little tube.

Thanks
Dale

 

You'll probably get the usual responses - and there are a few options but my vote goes to Permatex Ultra Black.

 

We've been using toyota fipg for years on many projects to include FD oil pans and its the single most incredible sealant ever. It just works

 

Dale check this out….

It’s a great review of RTV!

Steve

 

Last year, I used Toyota Seal Packing 103 as a sealant for my oil pan. The Toyota Seal had excellent reviews on the web. It turns into a pliable rubber after it cures. It works very well.

 

Thanks everyone!

I have heard good things on the Toyota so I'm leaning that direction.

I think the big thing is a) the oil level stays above the seal line so it's always seeing oil, and b) rotaries tend to get gas in the oil and that attacks a lot of sealants that would normally survive just oil.

Dale

 

Good point on the presence of fuel in the oil... That may be why none of these sealants seem to work.

I used Permatex Gray as called for in the FSM on a couple of Miata oil pans in my race car and they never leaked or seeped. Who knows how that would work in the FD with the fuel presence...

 

When I built my FC short block in 2017, I used Permatex Ultra Gray, new pan, studs & nuts with Banzai oil pan brace kit, and a DIY pan baffle I fabricated (so 2 layers of sealant to deal with) - that setup is just starting to show a little hint of weeping at one spot about 1" long on the turbo side. When I got my FD in 2019, it had a brand new 13B-REW short block with the pan sealed with whatever goo they use at the factory, but I pulled the motor with about 200 miles on it for various reasons. One reason was to install a Banzai oil pan brace & stud kit - oddly enough the factory sealant goo was still somewhat pliable and easy to remove! Made sure all the bolt holes were cleared of all the old goo, pan surfaces flat & all mating surfaces surgically clean, used Hondabond this time around and no signs of weeping yet.

 

I work at a Ford dealership. I used the Ford diesel rtv and it has worked great. It is made to work with fuel dilution. Proper dry/cure time before adding oil is a big factor.

 

I used Hondabond with an Elite brace (not sure if they’re still in business), but it’s been 3 years and no leaks. One of the tricks, I think, is the 'rib' cutouts for the oil pan brace. If it’s flat, it’ll put pressure on the ribs or bumps on the oil pan and create uneven pressure. Elite was able to make cutouts so the ribs fit inside the brace, giving a more even surface when bolting the pan up. (As I was typing this, I searched the brace you're using, and it’s the same design, so maybe it’s just luck.)

Elite oil pan brace


Garfinkle oil pan brace

 

I noticed some people had been showing concerns that Permetex and even Hondabond had changed formulas in recent years, so I wasn't as confident in those two staples of oil pan sealants. After a bit of research and talking to a few people, I landed on the ThreeBond sealant that Ohmar at Raceonly recommends.
https://www.raceonly.com.au/product/...d-sealant-e85/
Full disclosure, I have not used it yet. I plan on giving this a shot this winter.

The Toyota FIPG also came up in my research and looked very promising, but I had not seen any cases where it was used for our specific application at the time. Good to see there are some people using that with success.

 

Mazda is currently using a Three Bond 1217ES, 0000-77-1217-ES, best part its like $10 a tube

i'll second the clean surface and cure time are important!

Permatex is fine too, although you want the newest formulas. they don't discontinue the old stuff either

 

I was thinking the same. Last I heard Hondabond was no longer fuel resistant which would make it a no-go for a Rotary. Hopefully we can get confirmation because I may be looking at resealing my pan at some point in the future. I used to use the Toyota black which was fuel resistant (20 years ago) and never had an issue.

 

I'm pretty sure the Garfinkle oil pan brace design is the original, he was building things and posting on rx7club before Elite was around. I would avoid Elite, or RX7 Parts World, or whatever name that guy is using now; he's had a bad reputation on rx7club forums for years and years. https://www.rx7club.com/midwest-rx-7...2A%2A-1149716/

 

Used pan that was carefully straighten, also in 2007 during a rebuild. HONDABOND used also with a Garfinkle brace. It’s still dry.
Not to say there aren’t better sealants out there, but based on my experience it wasn’t a sealant failure on yours.

I still wonder how many leaking pans were as a result of buying pan braces without the flutes machined in to match those on the pan. Mr. Garfinkle was one of the first to include that machining step. Others only followed later.

 

I miss Garfinkle. Anyone know how he's doing?

 

Not sure what I used on my pan - guessing possibly The Right Stuff in that EZ-Cheese dispenser, I know I used that for quite some time.

The Chips brace I have includes the flutes and also has "cones" machined for each bolt and the bolts are hex drive and "bugle head" so it has good clamping pressure and centering.

I'll see if I can get some pics of that brace.

Gonna be scrubbing parts this weekend

Dale

 

Very few, considering the thousands of them I have sold and personally installed. If they were leaking I would have heard about it decades ago. Ironically the pans I hear about leaking have the brace with the recess cut, like Dale's.

 

I contacted him maybe 5 or 6 years ago with a question on something. He replied within a day. I still have this….
garfinklemw@gmail.com

 

I'm late to the party but I want to add a +1 to the Toyota sealer. I picked it up from a dealer for like $25 (not cheap) but I've used it on my FB, FD, and protege now with zero leaks. A mechanic friend of mine recommended it years ago

 

You can defend your brace, ok. But this is opposite of my (admittedly) single experience on someone else’s car. I’ve been happy and promoted every product I’ve ever bought from you, up to and including your transmission/PPF brace. But I don’t believe this is true. Read into that however you like.

 

I've always put new OEM pans on with the Right stuff, and made sure you could eat off the engine's sealing surface. This has always worked for me. With the rise of the price of the OEM oil pan, and using braces, we've decided to cast an O-ringed oil pan( one that doesn't sit below the subframe). This will be the best option.

https://turbosource.com/products/turblown-13b-oil-pan

 

getting back to sealants because the wrong pick results in leaks.

i did a thread in 2018 comparing five different sealants. Hondabond, The Right/wrong Stuff, a highly rated Ford sealant and a couple others.

as i recall, i laid out a 2 blobs of each and let it cure for 5 days. i then used my Durometer to measure hardness. (a Durometer is used to test tires. it consists of a spring loaded pin attached to a dial.)

after i noted the degree of hardness between the 5 silicone sealers i placed one of each in gasoline and the other in E85 for a week.

exec summary was Hondabond won all three tests by a significant margin.

FYI, there was a sizable difference in the other silicones after being immersed in gas and E85. almost no diff w Hondabond.

after the test, i have never used anything but Hondabond. i wish i could find the thread.

 

Look up the torque specifications for your oil pan bolts, it surprisingly is not very high!

I converted the spec into in/lbs. and used an inch pound torque wrench to bolt on the pan.

My install is an oil pan baffle sandwiched between two gaskets, that's four applications of RTV sealant!
I found it interesting that you have to wait a certain amount of time before torquing on the RTV, seems you have to let it start curing a bit!
When all else fails........




I have a question about gasoline dilution of the engine oil. Any gasoline that gets into the oil should vaporize out when the oil gets to operating temperature.
How does it build up in the oil?

I hope this is of some use.

 

Most important part is a 100% straight pan, Permatex Ultra Black is fine, the 24-48hrs one not the 5mins stuff. Hand tight the fastener and let it cure for a couple hours before fully torqueing it down, let it sit for a few days and retorque, at least a week before I put oil in.

I still have the aluminum DS mount and not running a brace, but I have never had a leak since I got the car in 2011.