In January I used Permatex Ultra gray, used oil pan, no gasket. So far no leaks.

 

I've had good luck using the Right Stuff and no gasket. If I remember correctly I cleaned the sealing surfaces with acetone.

 

I just tackled this project myself about 2 months ago. I had the help of a friend, that i now call the oil pan whisperer. He swore he could straighten out the old pan and i saw how he did his brothers Fd oil pan. He straighten out my old oil pan and i cleaned the bottom of the engine very well a few times. We let the engine sit for a week and used Permatex ultra gray. We let the pan cure for about three days and then I poured fresh oil. I have since drove the car to Atlanta from Florida and back. No leaks what so ever.

 

@Turblown What is the depth of the pan from the top of the flange to the bottom of the pan? I have a Bacon Racing/Winchester pan that has extra capacity and it sits below the subframe on my car, I've even skipped it off the ground a few times. I've been looking for a pan that still has baffle doors but is closer to stock capacity so it doesn't sit so low. I'm using IRP mounts, FYI.

Regarding the original topic, I originally used the o-ring that came on the Bacon Racing pan but it didn't seal very well. I pulled the engine again and used Grey Stuff and let it cure for about 10 minutes before I tightened down the pan. I spread it over the whole surface of the flange. It worked pretty well for several years, but over the last couple years I've noticed a good amount of oil and dirt residue. It's not leaking but definitely seeping somewhere.

 

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...-tech-1039223/

 

Its 3.5" off the top if my head

 

I came across an oil pan video from Banks Power this week, they share some cool design concepts. I haven't seen them share proof that their large cooling fins are helpful, but I really like the concept of a squeeze gap and a hump to encourage laminar flow into the pickup tube.

 

if you go and search one of the other forums for Lynn E Hannover's posts, apparently the oil pump tube is one of the big impediments in flow.
the TLDR is to cut off the screen and weld something on there so you can have a bell mouth opening. apparently that helps flow a lot a lot.

 

Dug out my Chips Motorsports brace. It looks terrible, it was coated with a zinc type coating but 10-15 years laying around my garage didn't do it favors.

You can see the design of the bolt holes, that's one of the things I really enjoyed about the design.

It is a "flat" brace like the Banzai, doesn't have grooves for the oil pan ridges.

Dale

 

i run Chip's oilpan brace, apparently a later model as it has the reliefs for the pan flutes and is beautifully plated. i consider it to be the best, to date, of the braces.

too bad neither the brace or Chip are currently available.

 

I remember the plating looking great when I bought it and it was new. That's what a LOT of years of sitting around will do

Dale

 

This?

"Stop by the Tractor Supply company store and buy a real thick washer about 2 1/2" diameter. Bore the hole out to fit tight on the end of the pickup tube.

Press into place and braze the upper side all around. With a die grinder, radius the inlet end of the tube to include part of the washer, so it ends up looking like a trumpet bell.

Clean and install. Be sure none of the washer touches the oil pan.

Improves high RPM oil pressure sag. And reduces foaming.

Picture is of this mod. The bug screen and anti vortex bowl is from a Pontiac. The stock Mazda piece is too small.

Lynn E. Hanover"

I'd post the link but IIRC that's not allowed on this forum.

 

For 99% of FD owners doing something that wild will get you no benefit. If you are building a crazy horsepower TRACK ONLY car, maybe look into it.

With the oil system keep it simple. Simple is reliable.

Dale

 

I noticed a lot of rotary shops recommending it also, so thats what I bought when I installed my new pan.

My experience (which isn't much with rotaries) brand new oil pan, clean everything 100% PERFECT. Applied the Threebond (which personally I found way too runny vs other grey sealents I've used to build engines in the past (like permatex ultra grey) It's super runny (even if you try squeeze/mix it in the tube) So it likes to crush out/sag quite a bit more than other brands. (prob used a bit too much, but when I see other "pro built" engines and factory mazda engines it seems normal to go to town on em.

HOWEVER - Zero leaks at all with no brace and factory bolts.
Why go to the trouble of adding a brace and all the extra crap? If you do the job properly in the first place it shouldn't leak was my theory? Keep it simple...

(oh there is also an extra bolt hole by the LHS engine mount that I used, you need a shorter bolt than the others to use it also)

Now the engine needs to come apart again, lets see if I can get the pan off without butchering it like I see everyone do on youtube :P

 

this "do it right the first time" mentality takes so many forms lol

keep in mind the brace isn't JUST for the oil pan and its clamping load, its also supposed to add rigidity to motor itself. so even if you don't want it for the perceived benefit of maintaining the oil pan seal integrity, your motor will benefit from the increase in rigidity. also keep in mind, the true test of any seal is time. we had a customer do his own oil pan gasket in the worst possible way. part of the old paper gasket was sticking out among other issues. this seal lasted for about a week without shedding a drop with a brace installed..... on the 8th day everything went to hell lol. so saying yours hasn't leaked therefore the brace is not required, is not a fair or reasonable assessment of the braces usefulness. unless you had some data saying oil pans with braces vs without and how long they last using the same sealant, there's no way to quantify or qualify the claim from either standpoint. the only irrefutable data points are its not NOT beneficial to have one and its definitely not NOT helping the oil pan seal.

it would be more beneficial from a justification standpoint to look at the braces primary purpose as adding rigidity to the motor and the oil pan sealing buff as a secondary benefit. that way, whether it works or doesn't work helps or doesn't help, it doesn't matter because its still helping hold the motor together. anything else would be extra credit. if you look at the braces primary purpose as helping the pan seal though, should it not do that to satisfaction then it can be written off as useless and unnecessary as you have done.

personally, we put a brace on every motor period. there's no reason to NOT have one and its presence is ONLY beneficial.

 

this was Mazda's solution for the R26B, its used as part of the chassis. it has an upper brace too.
and Super Now! sells a 10mm thick plate, and shorter engine mounts. primarily to make the engine more rigid,

so that is a thing too, not for everyone

 

You keep on doing you, but in my opinion it’s extra cost, raises the engine, need to add studs and nuts etc.

Apart from the above it shouldn’t hurt, but if it’s not REQUIRED I don’t do it. That’s my logic.
If you have a supply of braces then yeh sure go for it.

However I have the same questions regarding adding the brace.

Do you have any data showing the added motor rigidity from tiny m6 hardware torqued to 104 in-lb (8.6 ft-lb)

I’m guessing you over tighten with the brace?

Do you have any data backing up that the pan will leak if installed properly without a brace?

I’d say if anything all it’s providing is a means of squashing a warped used pan flatter. Negligible beneficial engine rigidity is my pick.

Agreed time and usage is a factor. 2.5 years and 400-450hp is probably test enough. Along with all the others that fit a new pan and sealant with no issues.

If it randomly springs a leak then I shall change my mind

 

we buy all our oil pan braces from banzai. this isn't a plug for us to sell more braces.............. since we don't make one

 

Edit

 

I was under my car and decided to check the oil pan, and lo and behold, it's leaking from the engine mounts. I take back everything I said about Hondabond, looks like I'll be giving ThreeBond a shot. At this point, I find it quite comical. Here's everything I did three years ago:

• Installed a new OEM pan
• Cleaned both surfaces with parts cleaner
• Used a oil pan brace with grooves
• Used a stud and nut combo
• Applied about a 3/16-inch bead all around
• Installed the pan immediately after applying the sealant
• Torqued to spec evenly
• Waited seven days before adding oil

Still, leaking…

 

i truly feel your pain and appreciate your efforts as to doing it right..... however (you knew that was coming) it wasn't the sealant choice. as per your description as to how you did the job i suggest that instead of running a bead you use your finger and make sure every bit of both the engine rails and the pan are properly coated. it is good that you waited a number of days as the outer sealant cures quickly but the inner does take a few days to cure.

 

when we do oil pans, we leave the drain plug out so it can breath on both sides for that exact reason. typically, a car will sit for about 2 days post pan install with the drain plug out before adding oil. that applies to all oil pan jobs across all cars that are we using rtv to seal. we also smear it all the way around instead of leaving a "bead" and allowing the pan to squish the bead itself. not sure if that part has any effect but it has been successful thus far.

 

The only issue I see with doing that is that if the pan & block surfaces are not absolutely flat, and the smeared layer is not thick enough, there will be a leak. I have been burned by that. So I always do this sort of job with a bead of sealant so that any imperfections are sealed. IMO, it's almost certain, unless both surfaces are newly machined or ground flat, that there will always be imperfections. YMMV

 

Your logic is sound and the exact opposite of ours lol. We smear it BECAUSE the flanges aren't perfect. Relying on the installing action to contour the two imperfect flanges to smear the bead to form is something we have not had success with. Fully understand where you're coming from though.

Pretty cool we can be complete opposite but come to the same end product. I think its just a difference in technique and you have yours perfected and we ours under our respective logic.

 

So sounds like the correct-ish procedure is something like this:

1. Installed a new OEM pan
2. Cleaned both surfaces with parts cleaner
3. Used a oil pan brace with or without grooves
4. Applied about an approximately 3/16-inch bead all around
5. Smear it to ensure a consistent amount across the entire surface area. Maybe add more in certain areas if you notice the area above that section of the pan is higher / uneven.
6. Read the sealant instructions to determine if
   1. You should let it set for x minutes before installing the pan
   2. Install the pan, snugging the bolts or nuts the specified amount - think finger tight or kinda touching so that the sealant can take a set
   3. Fully tighten and torque w/o waiting - probably not
7. Torque to spec evenly
8. Wait x days with the drain plug removed before adding oil

??