What is going on everyone. I wont wast anytime and ill get right into it and explain my circumstances. Due to some good fortune im working on a buying a 13B REW from a coworker. complete Engine plus trans stock ECU + wiring harness and ignition system. This will be going into my 91 S5. My goal is 400whp, but i plan t keep it tuned for 350whp since the car will be my DD. The catch is meeting goal while still using stock twins. Any help will do, would also like to hear from any memebers who have also refused to go with a single turbo setup and retain the twins.

My initial plan

13B REW Large street port + stud kit
Side cutting to FD3S S7 rotors
3mm Apex seals
Jspec Rebuilt Twin Turbos(would like to run at 15psi)
Greddy Intercooler
Mushroom Air Filters
3'' exahust + upgraded Cat
A1000 fuel pump + FPR
850cc primary + secondary

That is all i have put together at the moment. My big 3 questions right now

1-Is This an acheviable goal?
2 (going from little list) - What should take away?
3- What should I add to my list?

Thanks for all your help everyone
DAVID

 

Not sure if i misunderstood, but you NEED an aftermarket ECU.
The setup in general sounds ok but you cant run that power/boost with the stock ECU, no way around it.

Add ECU to your list

 

I don't believe you will reach 400 with that. With stock twins 14 psi all the time Is pushing It and the turbos won't last very long. People hardly reach 400 even with the BNRs. With a aftermarket cat won't help either, needs to be catless. You might get close with full exhaust and with a aggressive tune. Stock twins are quite restrictive.

 

Add larger secondary injectors to that as well

 

3mm seals are a waste of time. Get something like RX Parts seals. You are going to have to fab motor mounts to get the REW motor to mount in the S5 subframe.

 

Can the stock twins be rebuilt to handle more psi?

 

I decided to go ahead weld a new crossmember in the frame so I can retain the FD mounts


and Silver how big should go 2000cc or 1600cc?

 

Thanks for the response everyone this is really helping me out alot

 

The "BNR" are rebuilt to be stronger and more durable. Just do a search on them to find out more about them. Sometimes they have group buys on them. They usually run around $2000 though. You should consider a single since it may not end up costing you that much more. Also make sure the harness isn't all super crispy and fragile.

 

You're looking at 1 to 1.5 years to build, debug, and tune this setup. So I hope you have another car.


I don't want to say a street port and studs are a "waste" of money, because porting is free if you do it yourself. But if you are sending it out, it's going to cost, and the money could be put elsewhere. If you have the right turbo you can make plenty of power on stock ports, with more low end torque.

again, cost vs benefit. This will cost time and money and I think you are underestimating the cost of engine management, piping and wiring, plus swapping to a T2 drivetrain.

You need BNR's for twins. If you get BNR's, you won't need a custom manifold and you can modify a downpipe meant for stock turbos. There are advantages and disadvantages.

You'll have to put together something custom. No sense in getting a kit that won't fit. Buy a core and fit all the piping.

A cat will increase backpressure and make it harder to reach your power goal. I understand your concern about the smell on a daily driver, but something's gotta give.
Unless you are planning to build a fuel cell, a conventional in-tank fuel pump will be fine: Walbro etc.

The stock side feeds modified for the primary position are not a preferable choice due to poor atomization. You should consider a top feed rail conversion, or at least top feed secondary.

Another 4000 worth of engine management, tuning, suspension/drivetrain, and other stuff you didn't think about. That's why I was telling you to basically go stock-style on the engine. It will chew up a ton of money and you won't be able to afford the turbo(s), fuel, and engine management you need. The REW is a strong engine and doesn't need any internal upgrades for 400whp Dynojet. Porting shifts the power and torque band basically.

 

Engine management im still doing research on . But as for drivetrain and suspension i have mapped out those setups already. the engine was the last stop for me in my build.

 

after a bit more researching i compiled a new list (ive decided to do the port myself but will send side housing out to be resurfaced and rotors out for side cutting. Also decided to stick with a studded engine for a bit more rigidity.

13B REW (93-95) -Full street port
BNR stage 3 Turbo
upgraded intercooler kit
Aux injection
walbro fuel pump
full exhaust
upgraded radiator
custom fuel rails 850 primary 2000 secondary
cone filter mod + custom boxthe
and the ECU was the hard decsion due to time being a crucial factor and a more personal reason . But i decided to go with Apexi PFC (and thought i get the commander with it as well

now im sure this wont get me to goal. Which is fine for right now I think the extra time give me a chance to sit on the build to see if I really want go that high. so my questions are
1 what am i looking at rwhp wise if this the route i go?
2 is there anything i can add to keep the engine temp at a happy medium? (trying to find a solid balance)

Thank you everyone for all the helpful information and feedback.
David

 

^would suggest running dual oil coolers to help keep temps in check (stock ones are fine)

 

you could hit your goal with what you list with luck and a good tuner. Don't rush on the dual oil coolers if your mainly aiming for a street car. You can wait for a deal on an R1 setup.

your updated list is pretty solid, id only add water injection to protect my new motor. Just a simple AEM unit or something.

 

i'm just finishing up an REW-FC swap (FCD if you like) and its a b*$th! it is seriously harder than a 20B swap, less cool, and its stupid. you would be WAY further ahead by selling any FD parts you have, and rebuilding an FC turbo engine.

the FC engine bolts into the FC, and if you really have a fetish for the FD, the upper intake will go on the FC engine.

for the wiring, i would recommend pulling both harnesses apart and using the FC under dash connectors on the FD harness. i used adaptors to make the S5 harness work on the FC, and its kind of a mess. its also a HUGE job, i have a stock ECU running with no fault codes, so there was a lot of stuff to hook up, and some things are the same FC to FD, but some things are different in really lame ways.

with the cooling system the FC water pump won't clear the FD fuel rail, so you need the FD pump, which means you need the FD ps pump and or AC, as its a serpentine vs V belt. if you use an FC engine all of this can stay stock, which is easy.

the oil cooler lines need to be custom, as the FD has different sized fittings, and the rear line goes to a different place. i used the FC cooler, but i'm also not using the stock twins.

so crib notes? don't do it. the FC engine will do 400hp with the right turbo on it

 

I thought PFC comes pre tuned so no tuning necessary

Water/meth injection kit is for protection and if I do decide to go for higher it's one more thing I can cross off the list.









I will get the FCD . Did you keep your FC cluster or adapt the FD? And the reason I've decided to go REW is availability no online shipping fees and because it's the complete block turbos,PS,AC,WP,Coils+ECU with harnesses and trans plus flywheel and shaft for less then $800 is why I'm jumping on it

 

just because its cheap doesn't mean its a good idea. i've done the REW, the cosmo 2 and 3 rotor into FC's and the REW is the most difficult.

FCD = FC with FD engine...

 

Well yea it's not the best idea since a 13BT will bolt right up no problems. From what I understand so far the hardest part is getting the engine in the car (mounts,space for the turbos and any other figment problem I may encounter etc) then if remember there is a bit of re wiring to do even if you are running the stock FD ECU. The motor is coming out a running FD. But will be over hauling the engine before I drop in the FC. A big plus is that work in a body shop so I have access to the all tools I need. Dropping the engine in won't be a issue. And re wiring is another beast that'll cross my path when the time comes.

 

getting the engine in the car was easy, wiring it up was hard. with a stock ecu you need to wire up everything. the FD harness isn't compatible with the FC, and the FC harness won't go on the FD engine, so you need to pull them apart, trust me i just did it, its a big job.

 

just get a different ecu, it will save you time and headache seriously. You will have more issues with a PnP ecu since this is not that application. Go for halltech or adaptronic with a flying lead harness and wire it that way. You'll actually save money in the long run, no datalogit, twin power, boost controller to buy etc...

 

I prefer Haltech over adaptronic but I'm i need to find a tuner in my area that is familiar with Haltech or Adaptronic

 

IMO if you plan on using a rotary as a daily you gotta leave it near stock levels. As a rule with any car the more that you modify the more that stuff goes wrong. So with that said, get yourself a second car. I suggest a late 90's civic as they can be had rather cheap and are bullet proof.

 

I do have second car. but will hopefully be selling it soon to get a more pratical and better then this one.