13B-REW to LS1 Perspective
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
From: winston-salem, nc
A good friend who had done the swap convinced me its just not that hard and insisted I do it.
I did it, it wasn't that hard at all, and I haven't looked back since. I'm back to loving the RX7.
The rotary is like an abusive relationship. You don't realize how bad it was until its gone and its replaced with a new one that's actually great.
Do it - just accept it - its the last time you will have to - just start pulling parts this weekend, taking pictures and selling. You'll be done before you know it, and loving 300 lbs of torque at 2000 rpm while you get 32mpg on the highway in 6th.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
From: winston-salem, nc
You really cant blame the engine if you are on your 3rd one in 15k miles, its probably the nut behind the steering wheel and nothing related to the engine bay. That is not an attack on you, surely you can take a step back from your situation and realize not everyone else is blowing motors every 5k miles. $5k motors are a joke unless you are shooting for 600+rwhp and have extral dowel pinning, full bridge, ceramic apex seals, etc.
If I were blowing engines every 5k miles I would have to take a look at what I was doing wrong and not what the engine is doing wrong, that is just my opinion of course. The rotary isnt as reliable as an ls1, but blowing them every 5k miles??????? Something doesnt add up
If I were blowing engines every 5k miles I would have to take a look at what I was doing wrong and not what the engine is doing wrong, that is just my opinion of course. The rotary isnt as reliable as an ls1, but blowing them every 5k miles??????? Something doesnt add up
There are plenty of people who's engine blow in less that 10K miles - take a poll - how many people are relaxed when they get a new engine in the FD? I'd bet money, if they were honest, 9 out of 10 people are scared to floor it and go WOT. I'd even bet that 7 out of 10 people flinch when they do even after tuning and months of driving - why? Because the reality is that the engine is weak and SO many smart and intelligent and caring people have blown engines for no reason. (for reference, I went WOT on the LS1 the first time I drove it)
Put all that aside - assume its the person doing something wrong - I mean, for an engine which has 3 moving parts, sure seems like there is a lot of stuff you can f*** up, lol. seriously! I used to always chant , like everyone else, oh man, rotary, 3 parts, doritos on a stick, blah blah blah - again, real life - the rotary, with 3moving parts, gave me hell for 5 or 6 years - the piston engine, with a trillion moving parts, hasn't even made a peep for me. and its a used engine at that!
I'm not trying to start a flame war, or put down anyone liking the rotary or anything like that - but before you hint that maybe its the end user and not the engine, take a step back, and look at the past 12-15 years of FD owner experience.
The reality of it is that anyone who has spent more than a month on the FD section of the forum knows that there is a never ending string of threads dealing with blown engines, is my engine blown, rebuilding engines, things to do to seals to keep them from blowing, etc...
There are plenty of people who's engine blow in less that 10K miles - take a poll - how many people are relaxed when they get a new engine in the FD? I'd bet money, if they were honest, 9 out of 10 people are scared to floor it and go WOT. I'd even bet that 7 out of 10 people flinch when they do even after tuning and months of driving - why? Because the reality is that the engine is weak and SO many smart and intelligent and caring people have blown engines for no reason. (for reference, I went WOT on the LS1 the first time I drove it)
Put all that aside - assume its the person doing something wrong - I mean, for an engine which has 3 moving parts, sure seems like there is a lot of stuff you can f*** up, lol. seriously! I used to always chant , like everyone else, oh man, rotary, 3 parts, doritos on a stick, blah blah blah - again, real life - the rotary, with 3moving parts, gave me hell for 5 or 6 years - the piston engine, with a trillion moving parts, hasn't even made a peep for me. and its a used engine at that!
I'm not trying to start a flame war, or put down anyone liking the rotary or anything like that - but before you hint that maybe its the end user and not the engine, take a step back, and look at the past 12-15 years of FD owner experience.
There are plenty of people who's engine blow in less that 10K miles - take a poll - how many people are relaxed when they get a new engine in the FD? I'd bet money, if they were honest, 9 out of 10 people are scared to floor it and go WOT. I'd even bet that 7 out of 10 people flinch when they do even after tuning and months of driving - why? Because the reality is that the engine is weak and SO many smart and intelligent and caring people have blown engines for no reason. (for reference, I went WOT on the LS1 the first time I drove it)
Put all that aside - assume its the person doing something wrong - I mean, for an engine which has 3 moving parts, sure seems like there is a lot of stuff you can f*** up, lol. seriously! I used to always chant , like everyone else, oh man, rotary, 3 parts, doritos on a stick, blah blah blah - again, real life - the rotary, with 3moving parts, gave me hell for 5 or 6 years - the piston engine, with a trillion moving parts, hasn't even made a peep for me. and its a used engine at that!
I'm not trying to start a flame war, or put down anyone liking the rotary or anything like that - but before you hint that maybe its the end user and not the engine, take a step back, and look at the past 12-15 years of FD owner experience.
Darkside FD
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: AZ
I guess it is a lack of compentance/availability in all of the above that contribute to it. Why own an engine with such limited support, that you can't even take to the car's own manufacturer DEALERSHIP? You have to admit. That is a bit strange!
If I own a Lotus, Porsche or (insert exotic brand here), if I take it to the dealer, they know how to work on the car...
If I own a Lotus, Porsche or (insert exotic brand here), if I take it to the dealer, they know how to work on the car...
Actually not.
The philosophy under which the RX7 was built was very similar... it was about no-compromise performance, purity, and single-mindedness of purpose. Mazda tried to give the consumer 90% of what you get from a Porsche or Ferrari or Lotus or NSX at a lower price. IOW a thinly-disguised racecar for the street. That's what the FD is. It was never intended to be a daily driver. It's a "pure" sportscar, NOT a newer version of a 2nd Gen.
C4 Corvettes, 300Zs and similar-era ilk are exactly what you say—daily driver cruisers with swoopy bodies and room for golf clubs. They don't have race car suspensions or chassis, paper-thin body panels, obsessive weight-savings, race clutches, etc., etc. The RX7 is a late 80's GTU car with turn signals.
You're too focussed on the purchase price and brand name as bellweathers for intended purpose.
With regard to reliability, the VAST majority of Vipers, Porsches and the like aren't daily-driven by young guys, are garage kept, and maintained at nearly cost-no-object. I hardly know any Porsche owners who even touch their car... it goes right to a high-end performance shop.
The philosophy under which the RX7 was built was very similar... it was about no-compromise performance, purity, and single-mindedness of purpose. Mazda tried to give the consumer 90% of what you get from a Porsche or Ferrari or Lotus or NSX at a lower price. IOW a thinly-disguised racecar for the street. That's what the FD is. It was never intended to be a daily driver. It's a "pure" sportscar, NOT a newer version of a 2nd Gen.
C4 Corvettes, 300Zs and similar-era ilk are exactly what you say—daily driver cruisers with swoopy bodies and room for golf clubs. They don't have race car suspensions or chassis, paper-thin body panels, obsessive weight-savings, race clutches, etc., etc. The RX7 is a late 80's GTU car with turn signals.
You're too focussed on the purchase price and brand name as bellweathers for intended purpose.
With regard to reliability, the VAST majority of Vipers, Porsches and the like aren't daily-driven by young guys, are garage kept, and maintained at nearly cost-no-object. I hardly know any Porsche owners who even touch their car... it goes right to a high-end performance shop.
The FD and Ferrari have two completely different mindsets. Bad analogy…
The FD can best be compared best to a C4 corvette, which was exactly the market it was trying to capture. A well to do individual who wants something fast that can be driven periodically (daily). Not some thoroughbred that the instant it comes off the lot it becomes a collector’s item so it is best kept in the garage. Back in 1992 when the FD first came out anyone with enough credit from the street could come in and purchase one. Try doing that with a Ferrari. Even if you have cash. Ferrari has a policy that they don’t sell new cars to unknown customers. In order for anyone to get a new Ferrari they must have an already established relationship with the dealer. Meaning you must buy used before you buy new. The only way around that rule is that one can pay up to close 150% of the purchase price.
Don’t make the FD something it’s not. It’s a badass car but it’s not an exotic. It was never meant to be one.
A couple of months ago I went out to dinner with my mechanic and 4 other FD owners. We where all across the board with our mods, from highly modded to bone stock except for the pre-cat. But we all had one certain common thread with the FD: ALL of us had rebuilt engines under our belt. How many other sports car owners have that issue? Do Vipers engines crap out at 60K miles? What about porsches? Yeah all sports cars have problems, and the FD has it’s fair share and more. To me the biggest issue is that it seems that the engine is a throw away and expensive throw away at that. There’s no justifying such a massive issue on a car that was targeted to the average individual.
The FD can best be compared best to a C4 corvette, which was exactly the market it was trying to capture. A well to do individual who wants something fast that can be driven periodically (daily). Not some thoroughbred that the instant it comes off the lot it becomes a collector’s item so it is best kept in the garage. Back in 1992 when the FD first came out anyone with enough credit from the street could come in and purchase one. Try doing that with a Ferrari. Even if you have cash. Ferrari has a policy that they don’t sell new cars to unknown customers. In order for anyone to get a new Ferrari they must have an already established relationship with the dealer. Meaning you must buy used before you buy new. The only way around that rule is that one can pay up to close 150% of the purchase price.
Don’t make the FD something it’s not. It’s a badass car but it’s not an exotic. It was never meant to be one.
A couple of months ago I went out to dinner with my mechanic and 4 other FD owners. We where all across the board with our mods, from highly modded to bone stock except for the pre-cat. But we all had one certain common thread with the FD: ALL of us had rebuilt engines under our belt. How many other sports car owners have that issue? Do Vipers engines crap out at 60K miles? What about porsches? Yeah all sports cars have problems, and the FD has it’s fair share and more. To me the biggest issue is that it seems that the engine is a throw away and expensive throw away at that. There’s no justifying such a massive issue on a car that was targeted to the average individual.
Last edited by ptrhahn; Apr 22, 2008 at 01:07 PM.
Darkside FD
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: AZ
The philosophy under which the RX7 was built was very similar... it was about no-compromise performance, purity, and single-mindedness of purpose. Mazda tried to give the consumer 90% of what you get from a Porsche or Ferrari or Lotus or NSX at a lower price. IOW a thinly-disguised racecar for the street. That's what the FD is. It was never intended to be a daily driver. It's a "pure" sportscar, NOT a newer version of a 2nd Gen.
C4 Corvettes, 300Zs and similar-era ilk are exactly what you say—daily driver cruisers with swoopy bodies and room for golf clubs. They don't have race car suspensions or chassis, paper-thin body panels, obsessive weight-savings, race clutches, etc., etc. The RX7 is a late 80's GTU car with turn signals.
You're too focussed on the purchase price and brand name as bellweathers for intended purpose.
With regard to reliability, the VAST majority of Vipers, Porsches and the like aren't daily-driven by young guys, are garage kept, and maintained at nearly cost-no-object. I hardly know any Porsche owners who even touch their car... it goes right to a high-end performance shop.
C4 Corvettes, 300Zs and similar-era ilk are exactly what you say—daily driver cruisers with swoopy bodies and room for golf clubs. They don't have race car suspensions or chassis, paper-thin body panels, obsessive weight-savings, race clutches, etc., etc. The RX7 is a late 80's GTU car with turn signals.
You're too focussed on the purchase price and brand name as bellweathers for intended purpose.
With regard to reliability, the VAST majority of Vipers, Porsches and the like aren't daily-driven by young guys, are garage kept, and maintained at nearly cost-no-object. I hardly know any Porsche owners who even touch their car... it goes right to a high-end performance shop.
I think you go a little far with your regards to the FD as an exotic. And I would also state that Porsches are daily driven on a regular basis with far less concern than doing the same with an FD. Even the turbo porsche variety. Maybe Robert could chime in here (redlinewins), but I bet if you asked him which he would be more concerned about in daily driving (reliability standpoint), his 965 turbo, his or FD, he would say the FD.
I really think you are stretching if you take it above the Porsche brand and into Ferrari... Ferrari is a different league from the FD...people are paying for more than the car in buying a Ferrari, to a FAR greater extent than buying the FD because it is more than just a car. For example, tell someone you drive a Ferrari... And compare that to when you tell someone you drive an RX7... that is what a lot of Ferrari owners pay for.
Last edited by cozmo kraemer; Apr 22, 2008 at 01:25 PM.
I don't think I go too far at all, if you look at the design of the car. I realize that a component of "exotic" is nameplate and status, but my point is that the FD must be treated similarly to an exotic from an ownership standpoint, because they built/designed it with a similar philosophy. You don't get a 2750 lb street car without pushing the envelope. I stand 100% behind the asertion that if Jaguar or Lotus had glued their nameplate on the exact same car they could've charged $60k for it and it would have been better treated over it's lifespan.
Part of the reason the reputation is so bad isn't so much the car, but literally BECAUSE it was so cheap. People expect to treat it like a cheap car. You can't.
Most FD's frankly are treated like crap. That's not to say that Porches aren't more durable—but compare it to say a '92 Lotus Esprit Turbo or an early 90's Ferrari. You'll go broke maintaining those cars, and if the motor DOES go it isn't any chump change five grand either. That'll buy you a valve adjustment.
Stop assessing it from a brand/status perspective, and it will be alot clearer. Intangible status symbol crap isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about the actual physical car, how it was designed and what it does, not what someone can brag to friends about.
Part of the reason the reputation is so bad isn't so much the car, but literally BECAUSE it was so cheap. People expect to treat it like a cheap car. You can't.
Most FD's frankly are treated like crap. That's not to say that Porches aren't more durable—but compare it to say a '92 Lotus Esprit Turbo or an early 90's Ferrari. You'll go broke maintaining those cars, and if the motor DOES go it isn't any chump change five grand either. That'll buy you a valve adjustment.
Stop assessing it from a brand/status perspective, and it will be alot clearer. Intangible status symbol crap isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about the actual physical car, how it was designed and what it does, not what someone can brag to friends about.
I think you go a little far with your regards to the FD as an exotic. And I would also state that Porsches are daily driven on a regular basis with far less concern than doing the same with an FD. Even the turbo porsche variety. Maybe Robert could chime in here (redlinewins), but I bet if you asked him which he would be more concerned about in daily driving (reliability standpoint), his 965 turbo, his or FD, he would say the FD.
I really think you are stretching if you take it above the Porsche brand and into Ferrari... Ferrari is a different league from the FD...people are paying for more than the car in buying a Ferrari, to a FAR greater extent than buying the FD because it is more than just a car. For example, tell someone you drive a Ferrari... And compare that to when you tell someone you drive an RX7... that is what a lot of Ferrari owners pay for.
I really think you are stretching if you take it above the Porsche brand and into Ferrari... Ferrari is a different league from the FD...people are paying for more than the car in buying a Ferrari, to a FAR greater extent than buying the FD because it is more than just a car. For example, tell someone you drive a Ferrari... And compare that to when you tell someone you drive an RX7... that is what a lot of Ferrari owners pay for.
Last edited by ptrhahn; Apr 22, 2008 at 01:37 PM.
In the 15 years that I've been driving turbo and non-turbo rotaries, I have never blown a motor. I have modded and tracked all of them. (knock on wood 
)
There is a guy that has been running a white 94 FD with PDA in the North EAst for the last 10 or so years. He is still on the original motor and 2nd set of turbos. I think he has something like 20k track miles on the car. KDR in PA does his work iirc.
Keep in mind that the LSx swap isn't trouble free. There was a member of this forum who blew the LS1 motor in his track FD and wound up getting rid of the car. To his credit he also had gone through a couple of rotaries also.
Many times we are victims of our own decisions as well as circumstances beyond our control. **** happens but owners rarely want to take the responsibility for their own poor decisions or mistakes and blame the car or motor at fault. Look at how many dumbass and dangerous mods people ask about on a daily basis.
On the other hand, it definitely seems easier to support the LS1 since there is so much more knowledge around that motor. Seems like a cool swap so enjoy it if that is what you like.
)There is a guy that has been running a white 94 FD with PDA in the North EAst for the last 10 or so years. He is still on the original motor and 2nd set of turbos. I think he has something like 20k track miles on the car. KDR in PA does his work iirc.
Keep in mind that the LSx swap isn't trouble free. There was a member of this forum who blew the LS1 motor in his track FD and wound up getting rid of the car. To his credit he also had gone through a couple of rotaries also.
Many times we are victims of our own decisions as well as circumstances beyond our control. **** happens but owners rarely want to take the responsibility for their own poor decisions or mistakes and blame the car or motor at fault. Look at how many dumbass and dangerous mods people ask about on a daily basis.
On the other hand, it definitely seems easier to support the LS1 since there is so much more knowledge around that motor. Seems like a cool swap so enjoy it if that is what you like.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
From: Dallas TX
The philosophy under which the RX7 was built was very similar... it was about no-compromise performance, purity, and single-mindedness of purpose. Mazda tried to give the consumer 90% of what you get from a Porsche or Ferrari or Lotus or NSX at a lower price. IOW a thinly-disguised racecar for the street. That's what the FD is. It was never intended to be a daily driver. It's a "pure" sportscar, NOT a newer version of a 2nd Gen.
BUT
GTUs and thinly-disguised racecars for the street don't have air conditioning, power windows, sunroofs, leather seats, alarms, Bose sound systems, etc.
The best example of a thinly disguised racecar for the street is the Lotus Exige.
If the FD was never intended to be daily driven then we wouldn't have cruise control, AC, power windows , Bose stereo, sunroof, leather seats. As it turns out the FD is a big pain in the *** therefore owners choose not to daily drive it.
Last edited by Montego; Apr 22, 2008 at 02:01 PM.
What sort of "evidence" would you like? The car was marketed as the "pure" sportscar, no compromises. Does that sound like "commuter car" to you?
That's not to say you can't "daily" drive it by some descriptions, but it wasn't intended to be treated like a 626.
The "evidence" is in the car itself. Paper-thin body panels. Rock hard suspension. Solid bushings. You can get sunroofs, A/C, and leather seats in Ferrari's too... but owners aren't dumb enough to think that means it's a civic.
That's not to say you can't "daily" drive it by some descriptions, but it wasn't intended to be treated like a 626.
The "evidence" is in the car itself. Paper-thin body panels. Rock hard suspension. Solid bushings. You can get sunroofs, A/C, and leather seats in Ferrari's too... but owners aren't dumb enough to think that means it's a civic.
Please find me one shred of evidence that supports your statement. Evidence not opinion. And IRRC NSX claim was for the "everyday sportscar"
If the FD was never intended to be daily driven then we wouldn't have cruise control, AC, power windows , Bose stereo, sunroof, leather seats. As it turns out the FD is a big pain in the *** therefore owners choose not to daily drive it.
If the FD was never intended to be daily driven then we wouldn't have cruise control, AC, power windows , Bose stereo, sunroof, leather seats. As it turns out the FD is a big pain in the *** therefore owners choose not to daily drive it.
The Lotus Elise is a decade-newer example of the same philosophy... and the envelope has been pushed. Just like a decade ago, Corvettes didn't come with titanium exhausts and CF hoods.
I agree Mazda approached the design of the FD with an 'exotic' philosophy
BUT
GTUs and thinly-disguised racecars for the street don't have air conditioning, power windows, sunroofs, leather seats, alarms, Bose sound systems, etc.
The best example of a thinly disguised racecar for the street is the Lotus Exige.
BUT
GTUs and thinly-disguised racecars for the street don't have air conditioning, power windows, sunroofs, leather seats, alarms, Bose sound systems, etc.
The best example of a thinly disguised racecar for the street is the Lotus Exige.
What sort of "evidence" would you like? The car was marketed as the "pure" sportscar, no compromises. Does that sound like "commuter car" to you?
That's not to say you can't "daily" drive it by some descriptions, but it wasn't intended to be treated like a 626.
The "evidence" is in the car itself. Paper-thin body panels. Rock hard suspension. Solid bushings. You can get sunroofs, A/C, and leather seats in Ferrari's too... but owners aren't dumb enough to think that means it's a civic.
That's not to say you can't "daily" drive it by some descriptions, but it wasn't intended to be treated like a 626.
The "evidence" is in the car itself. Paper-thin body panels. Rock hard suspension. Solid bushings. You can get sunroofs, A/C, and leather seats in Ferrari's too... but owners aren't dumb enough to think that means it's a civic.
So far all of your evidence has been your opinion. Plain and simple.
The reason why ferraris, porsches, lambos aren't daily drivers is not because they lose engines. It is maintance and devaluation of the car. When was the last time you paid $2,000 for an oil change? or $1800 for a break job, or better yet has your car devalued $50,000? didn't think so.
The FD belongs in the same category as the C4.
Opinion.
No, my "evidence" is in the inherant qualities of the car. How it was designed and constructed, and the intended purpose that is EVIDENT in that design and construction. That's not my opinion.
YOUR asertion is worse than opinion, it's a fallacy. Simply because the FD sold in a similar price range to a C4 Corvette, or had a nameplate on it that you associate as similar to the nameplate on a C4 Corvette, the machine itself must be similar to a C4 Corvette. It isn't. That's why a C4 Corvette drives like a truck in comparison.
Plenty of people who own Lambos and Ferraris don't have to care one iota about costs or devaluation from a purely financial standpoint. They could use up and throw away Ferraris like disposable razors. The reason they don't daily drive their cars is out of respect for them. You'll see the same from a guy who owns an older 911, or even a vintage MG. The latter may be cheap, but it isn't intended to be beaten on.
WAS there a car as bare-bones and racecar-like as an Elise in '92? NO. DID C4 Corvettes come with Ti exhausts and CF hoods in '92? NO... so my asertion that the standard for "racecar for the street" has moved since then is NOT my opinion, it's a point of fact. The FD was one of the closest things to a racecar for the street that you could buy in 1992. A C4 Corvette wasn't.
YOUR asertion is worse than opinion, it's a fallacy. Simply because the FD sold in a similar price range to a C4 Corvette, or had a nameplate on it that you associate as similar to the nameplate on a C4 Corvette, the machine itself must be similar to a C4 Corvette. It isn't. That's why a C4 Corvette drives like a truck in comparison.
Plenty of people who own Lambos and Ferraris don't have to care one iota about costs or devaluation from a purely financial standpoint. They could use up and throw away Ferraris like disposable razors. The reason they don't daily drive their cars is out of respect for them. You'll see the same from a guy who owns an older 911, or even a vintage MG. The latter may be cheap, but it isn't intended to be beaten on.
WAS there a car as bare-bones and racecar-like as an Elise in '92? NO. DID C4 Corvettes come with Ti exhausts and CF hoods in '92? NO... so my asertion that the standard for "racecar for the street" has moved since then is NOT my opinion, it's a point of fact. The FD was one of the closest things to a racecar for the street that you could buy in 1992. A C4 Corvette wasn't.
So far all of your evidence has been your opinion. Plain and simple.
The reason why ferraris, porsches, lambos aren't daily drivers is not because they lose engines. It is maintance and devaluation of the car. When was the last time you paid $2,000 for an oil change? or $1800 for a break job, or better yet has your car devalued $50,000? didn't think so.
The FD belongs in the same category as the C4.
The reason why ferraris, porsches, lambos aren't daily drivers is not because they lose engines. It is maintance and devaluation of the car. When was the last time you paid $2,000 for an oil change? or $1800 for a break job, or better yet has your car devalued $50,000? didn't think so.
The FD belongs in the same category as the C4.
Last edited by ptrhahn; Apr 22, 2008 at 02:47 PM.
That was good. 
Ya know, all this diehard Wankel loyalty is kind of annoying. I'm doing a conversion because it's the most logical thing to do. I'm NOT buying a Corvette because I don't like the way they look....or any other f-body likewise—I like the way my 7 looks. Not to mention, I see a vette @ every other red light. I'll be more than happy to keep a rotary engine in my FD, and YOU diehards can come rebuild it every stinkin' time the engine goes kaput, and YOU can tune the crap out of it to give me better MPG. When I bought my FD, the engine was blown, and after the second time, I'd had enough.
Personally, I don't have the time, I don't have the money, and I don't have the patience. The solution was very clear. Go V8. Loyalists can "yeah but, yeah but, yeah but" your way into the next galaxy, and the you still won't have a solid argument other than your emotional attachment to it.
Also I beg to differ that there's a bunch of LS RX7's for sale—hell, I've never even seen one on the road.
Ya know, all this diehard Wankel loyalty is kind of annoying. I'm doing a conversion because it's the most logical thing to do. I'm NOT buying a Corvette because I don't like the way they look....or any other f-body likewise—I like the way my 7 looks. Not to mention, I see a vette @ every other red light. I'll be more than happy to keep a rotary engine in my FD, and YOU diehards can come rebuild it every stinkin' time the engine goes kaput, and YOU can tune the crap out of it to give me better MPG. When I bought my FD, the engine was blown, and after the second time, I'd had enough.
Personally, I don't have the time, I don't have the money, and I don't have the patience. The solution was very clear. Go V8. Loyalists can "yeah but, yeah but, yeah but" your way into the next galaxy, and the you still won't have a solid argument other than your emotional attachment to it.
Also I beg to differ that there's a bunch of LS RX7's for sale—hell, I've never even seen one on the road.
LS1 to make 400+HP = $2000
Rotary to make 400+HP= $5000 ( not to mention )+ rebuild + port + tune = BROKE! Now your stuck w/ all these parts and this sweet engine, now what? You have to install it.. but your broke.... ( another 2 years to figure out how to install it yourself )
LS1 = make the meets
Rotary = Not bringing the 7, ill bring my other car.
well said, thats the reason i dont want a vette, the RX-7 is unique and u dont see them anywhere. I'd like an engine that can hold its own on 400+hp.
LS1 to make 400+HP = $2000
Rotary to make 400+HP= $5000 ( not to mention )+ rebuild + port + tune = BROKE! Now your stuck w/ all these parts and this sweet engine, now what? You have to install it.. but your broke.... ( another 2 years to figure out how to install it yourself )
LS1 = make the meets
Rotary = Not bringing the 7, ill bring my other car.
LS1 to make 400+HP = $2000
Rotary to make 400+HP= $5000 ( not to mention )+ rebuild + port + tune = BROKE! Now your stuck w/ all these parts and this sweet engine, now what? You have to install it.. but your broke.... ( another 2 years to figure out how to install it yourself )
LS1 = make the meets
Rotary = Not bringing the 7, ill bring my other car.
YOUR asertion is worse than opinion, it's a fallacy. Simply because the FD sold in a similar price range to a C4 Corvette, or had a nameplate on it that you associate as similar to the nameplate on a C4 Corvette, the machine itself must be similar to a C4 Corvette. It isn't. That's why a C4 Corvette drives like a truck in comparison.
I made some points regarding the maintenance of a REAL exotic and how it relates to not driving it to work daily, I noticed you just decided to pay it no mind. Also you never refuted the whole "NSX- for the everyday sports car slogan" which goes against every point you are making about the FD...
Plenty of people who own Lambos and Ferraris don't have to care one iota about costs or devaluation from a purely financial standpoint. They could use up and throw away Ferraris like disposable razors. The reason they don't daily drive their cars is out of respect for them. You'll see the same from a guy who owns an older 911, or even a vintage MG. The latter may be cheap, but it isn't intended to be beaten on.
yes the MG is a piece of ****.
WAS there a car as bare-bones and racecar-like as an Elise in '92? NO. DID C4 Corvettes come with Ti exhausts and CF hoods in '92? NO... so my asertion that the standard for "racecar for the street" has moved since then is NOT my opinion, it's a point of fact.
so my asertion that the standard for "racecar for the street" has moved since then is NOT my opinion, it's a point of fact.
so my asertion that the standard for "racecar for the street" has moved since then is NOT my opinion, it's a point of fact.
Again how many ferrari/porsche/lambo owners do you know that are replacing engines at 60K?
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,793
Likes: 646
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
well said, thats the reason i dont want a vette, the RX-7 is unique and u dont see them anywhere. I'd like an engine that can hold its own on 400+hp.
LS1 to make 400+HP = $2000
Rotary to make 400+HP= $5000 ( not to mention )+ rebuild + port + tune = BROKE! Now your stuck w/ all these parts and this sweet engine, now what? You have to install it.. but your broke.... ( another 2 years to figure out how to install it yourself )
LS1 = make the meets
Rotary = Not bringing the 7, ill bring my other car.
LS1 to make 400+HP = $2000
Rotary to make 400+HP= $5000 ( not to mention )+ rebuild + port + tune = BROKE! Now your stuck w/ all these parts and this sweet engine, now what? You have to install it.. but your broke.... ( another 2 years to figure out how to install it yourself )
LS1 = make the meets
Rotary = Not bringing the 7, ill bring my other car.
well said, thats the reason i dont want a vette, the RX-7 is unique and u dont see them anywhere. I'd like an engine that can hold its own on 400+hp.
LS1 to make 400+HP = $2000
Rotary to make 400+HP= $5000 ( not to mention )+ rebuild + port + tune = BROKE! Now your stuck w/ all these parts and this sweet engine, now what? You have to install it.. but your broke.... ( another 2 years to figure out how to install it yourself )
LS1 = make the meets
Rotary = Not bringing the 7, ill bring my other car.
LS1 to make 400+HP = $2000
Rotary to make 400+HP= $5000 ( not to mention )+ rebuild + port + tune = BROKE! Now your stuck w/ all these parts and this sweet engine, now what? You have to install it.. but your broke.... ( another 2 years to figure out how to install it yourself )
LS1 = make the meets
Rotary = Not bringing the 7, ill bring my other car.
[QUOTE=montego;8120363]What about AC, and a bose sytem? is that inherently of an all out track car?[QUOTE=montego;8120363]
Ferraris, for all of their purity... heck, McLaren F1's have air conditioning. I didn't say it was an "all out track ar", I said it was a racecar for the STREET. It's not uncommon for those to have air conditioning.
Yeah, "real" exotic cars require a ton of expensive maintenance. Where's the big revelation? The RX7's was designed and contructed with a similar philosophy at a lesser price, so it requires it too. You'll note said maintenance, while similar, is proportionally less expensive. In exotic car terms, a rotary engine is a "wear item".
To your point about the NSX, the RX7 isn't an NSX, so you HAVE no point worth addressing. They're different cars.
Yes, I know many rich people with nice cars, so I know what they require and how much they cost to maintain. I guess it'll be difficult to explain to you, but the reason many Ferrari, Porsche... even M3 owners don't daily drive their cars is because they don't have to, and don't want to because they respect the car. I don't daily drive my RX7, because I wouldn't WANT to truck it in and out of the city in traffic. It's less a cost issue and more about not abusing it for non-quality driving. It's not a comfortable or easy to drive car.
When you look in the classifieds for nicer cars, look how many say "no rain, no winters, no ...". That's because they can afford to drive something else, and the car is a toy for nice days and leisure fun... not grocery getting.
I didn't neglect anything. It's true that anyone with a valuable may choose to drivie it sparingly to preserve it's value. However, as I stated above, many owners of high-strung sportscars do so for other reasons. If you don't want to subscribe to that, fine, but who's the snart one here? The guy that treats his RX7 like Buick and then is mad when screws him, or the guy that understands how his car was designed and treats it accordingly, even if it has a mazda emblem on the hood?
Do you know anyone who owns a Ferrari? Ask them what the "30k service" is. On many models, it's essentially a top end rebuild and requires that the motor be dropped.
Ferraris, for all of their purity... heck, McLaren F1's have air conditioning. I didn't say it was an "all out track ar", I said it was a racecar for the STREET. It's not uncommon for those to have air conditioning.
I have fallacy for you it's under Red Herring- can you guess which one I'm talking about?
I made some points regarding the maintenance of a REAL exotic and how it relates to not driving it to work daily, I noticed you just decided to pay it no mind. Also you never refuted the whole "NSX- for the everyday sports car slogan" which goes against every point you are making about the FD...
I made some points regarding the maintenance of a REAL exotic and how it relates to not driving it to work daily, I noticed you just decided to pay it no mind. Also you never refuted the whole "NSX- for the everyday sports car slogan" which goes against every point you are making about the FD...
To your point about the NSX, the RX7 isn't an NSX, so you HAVE no point worth addressing. They're different cars.
By making that blanket statement I'm guessing you know many millionares, please ask them this: So if they are not concern with maintenace and depreciation why don't they drive them daily? Money is no object right? The bushings too hard or something? I'd rock a ferrari everyday If I didn't care about the $$.
yes the MG is a piece of ****.
yes the MG is a piece of ****.
When you look in the classifieds for nicer cars, look how many say "no rain, no winters, no ...". That's because they can afford to drive something else, and the car is a toy for nice days and leisure fun... not grocery getting.
You are going offf on a tangent here... Plain and simple you lumped the FD and ferraris in the same category. Stating that ferrari owners dont drive their cars everyday and neither should we. Neglectiong the fact that the reaons Ferrari owners don't drive theirs is completely different than ours.
Do you know anyone who owns a Ferrari? Ask them what the "30k service" is. On many models, it's essentially a top end rebuild and requires that the motor be dropped.
Darkside FD
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: AZ
We could compare a 2000 RX7 to a 2000 C5 vette. I mean Mazda didn't make many changes, and the FD was a brand new design that was introduced in the middle of the C4 cycle. The C5 was out 3 years later. So it could be said that the FD and C5 were competitors...it was the emissions laws after 95 that killed the US market FD.
In these threads, I consistently hear about all of these FDs that make it out on the track and put out good power and go for 75K+ miles (I thought I would be one of them). And then I think to myself....every single FD where I know the owner personally (aside from one), currently has a blown engine. All of them have had the engine rebuilt at some point.
I think supercars aren't driven everyday, by their elite owners, because they have something else that does the job better. If I have a Carrera GT....I will probably be driving my M5 or S65 AMG to work everyday. There are a lot of factors at play there. Mazda was FOR SURE, not marketing to that audience with this car. It's competition wasn't even the 911, it was the 968, according to Car and Driver's test where the FD doesn't even win... 300zxTT SupraTT Porsche 968 and C4 vette... That is the company the FD was marketed toward, that was the buying audience. If Mazda wanted the car to be treated like an exotic...They FAILED miserably. I guess we could agree on that.
Stock, I can't imagine an FD not overheating in Phoenix. I don't even know why they were sold here. Every single one, in stock form and even modified, has cooling trouble.
This argument can go on and on. ANND on and on.
Last edited by cozmo kraemer; Apr 22, 2008 at 05:17 PM.
Darkside FD
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: AZ
For the record I LOVE the FD chassis and always thought it was a brilliant chassis in search of an engine. My friends and I have always joked about the chassis/suspension engineers at Mazda getting seriously pissed at the power plant engineers because of it's shortcomings.
If the car could put down 300rwhp with little to no modification, track reliability and no cooling issues it would be a screamer that I would own regardless of engine. This is why I was always intrigued by the 3 rotor NA conversion. I know the NA rotaries have pretty good reliability and less cooling issues.
If the car could put down 300rwhp with little to no modification, track reliability and no cooling issues it would be a screamer that I would own regardless of engine. This is why I was always intrigued by the 3 rotor NA conversion. I know the NA rotaries have pretty good reliability and less cooling issues.
Last edited by cozmo kraemer; Apr 22, 2008 at 05:41 PM.
