13B-REW to LS1 Perspective
#51
Lets Go Hokies!
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FD's were rated 23mpg highway from the factory. I removed pretty much every intake and exhaust restriction, my engine was in great shape and making good compression, and I was tuned pretty lean for cruise. High 20's mpg was no sweat. It was always fun traveling with other FD's because when it came time to fill up at the pump my gas bill was always significantly less than the others.
It is too bad I will probably never see that economy again with my new ported engine and 850cc primaries. lol
It is too bad I will probably never see that economy again with my new ported engine and 850cc primaries. lol
#52
I'm sorry to **** people off but the sound of a V8 to me is just tasteless and nothing unique. I'd almost be embarrassed picking up the girl with a sound that loud and just bland. To me the rotary is unique outside and inside cockpit sound is just awesome. Anyone can make a V8 kit car but a rotary will be unique to the death. To me a V8 Rx7 is just another kit car just as a 2JZ seven is, unless it's rotary it will never be that much of a car. A 20B rx7 is a different story though
Also, you could say that anyone could buy a rotary RX7, but it takes someone with knowledge and skill to put a different engine into the chassis. (this includes any non 13b, including 20b, LS1, 2JZ, whatever) If you learn anything, it should be to appreciate quality work, even if you dont agree with it.
#53
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REW vs LSx
I like making power beyond 5K on the tach, and holding it there until 9...
So far I haven't seen or gone for a ride in a V-8 that could do that. There is the new M-3, but thats a whole different can of worms.
Piston vs Rotary? Another subject.
Too much opinion.fact on both sides, and really who the hell cars. Cozmo says it best, its my car, I'll do what ever the hell I want. I like Rotaries because I can rev the **** out of them. I've had RX-7s that were more reliable than my current Honda DD. And if I ever get bored with whats under the hood of my car, I know with the rotary there are a million different things to get involved in the build. A piston engine, not so much.
I like making power beyond 5K on the tach, and holding it there until 9...
So far I haven't seen or gone for a ride in a V-8 that could do that. There is the new M-3, but thats a whole different can of worms.
Piston vs Rotary? Another subject.
Too much opinion.fact on both sides, and really who the hell cars. Cozmo says it best, its my car, I'll do what ever the hell I want. I like Rotaries because I can rev the **** out of them. I've had RX-7s that were more reliable than my current Honda DD. And if I ever get bored with whats under the hood of my car, I know with the rotary there are a million different things to get involved in the build. A piston engine, not so much.
#54
Eye In The Sky
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Many of you are missing the point of the comparison, and you have let your emotions overide your reasoning capacity.
Yes a 400hp LS1 will outlast a 400hp rotary. The idea was what if they both made the same hp/L then how would they compare. We are talking about engine stress. Would a 877whp LS1 in a vette fair as well as for a dayly driver?
Yes a 400hp LS1 will outlast a 400hp rotary. The idea was what if they both made the same hp/L then how would they compare. We are talking about engine stress. Would a 877whp LS1 in a vette fair as well as for a dayly driver?
#55
Ya know, all this diehard Wankel loyalty is kind of annoying. I'm doing a conversion because it's the most logical thing to do. I'm NOT buying a Corvette because I don't like the way they look....or any other f-body likewise—I like the way my 7 looks. Not to mention, I see a vette @ every other red light. I'll be more than happy to keep a rotary engine in my FD, and YOU diehards can come rebuild it every stinkin' time the engine goes kaput, and YOU can tune the crap out of it to give me better MPG. When I bought my FD, the engine was blown, and after the second time, I'd had enough.
Personally, I don't have the time, I don't have the money, and I don't have the patience. The solution was very clear. Go V8. Loyalists can "yeah but, yeah but, yeah but" your way into the next galaxy, and the you still won't have a solid argument other than your emotional attachment to it.
Also I beg to differ that there's a bunch of LS RX7's for sale—hell, I've never even seen one on the road.
#56
Please somebody help!!!
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Many of you are missing the point of the comparison, and you have let your emotions overide your reasoning capacity.
Yes a 400hp LS1 will outlast a 400hp rotary. The idea was what if they both made the same hp/L then how would they compare. We are talking about engine stress. Would a 877whp LS1 in a vette fair as well as for a dayly driver?
Yes a 400hp LS1 will outlast a 400hp rotary. The idea was what if they both made the same hp/L then how would they compare. We are talking about engine stress. Would a 877whp LS1 in a vette fair as well as for a dayly driver?
However, it is interesting to note that we're on the **** end of the stick as far as R&D time goes. We don't have the benefit of *every* engine manufacturer on the planet working to make a better rotary. Hell, we don't have the benefit of the R&D done by all of the manufacturers that never put a rotary on the road. Ignoring that we're still what... 50 years behind?
I understand what you're saying; but i don't think that hp/L is a valuable discussion point. Also, it doesn't take in to account our dynamic displacement; but that's a whole 'nother discussion.
#57
White chicks > *
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Just browsing the FD section for sale (because we are in the 3rd gen section)
The point your arguing about them being sold, unless im blind, i scanned the first three pages of the for sale section and found TWO for sale, and ONE of them sold, his asking price was 24,000 OBO. So we can both agree that he got an offer in the general area of that. Browsing the other one that was for sale... people offering to trade an evo, and another guy an sti.
You want to know what i found in the rotary for sale threads? Bump for a great car, and bump for a good seller.. and the asking prices only being 10-14k.
Wanting to believe and knowing the facts are a little bit different.. i would make a pretty solid bet that there are in the general area of 100 v8 rx7s including all gens.
The point your arguing about them being sold, unless im blind, i scanned the first three pages of the for sale section and found TWO for sale, and ONE of them sold, his asking price was 24,000 OBO. So we can both agree that he got an offer in the general area of that. Browsing the other one that was for sale... people offering to trade an evo, and another guy an sti.
You want to know what i found in the rotary for sale threads? Bump for a great car, and bump for a good seller.. and the asking prices only being 10-14k.
Wanting to believe and knowing the facts are a little bit different.. i would make a pretty solid bet that there are in the general area of 100 v8 rx7s including all gens.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=748608
member: dan81386
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=741583
member: jarrett H
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=740597
member: lonelydriver
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=736085
member: accel junky
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=745133
member: snyper
The car is not really complete but its basically a complete car and ready to go. The guy just took his LS1 out for another project. Everything seems ready for just the LS1 to go in and you're done.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=714883
member: ctribb01
Thread is kinda old but looks like its still for sale
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=740789
member: LS1rx7forsale
So that makes, it, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. 7!!! LS swapped FD's for sale in 3 pages. How you missed them i have no idea.
I even jotted down the member names so you wont think its just a repost of the same car by the same person.
Btw, i dont really care about how many v8 "rx7s" there are. Maybe i should have stated earlier, I AM talking about v8 swapped FD's.
I could care less if all the FB's are v8 swapped. Good for them. My argument is on the FD side.
#58
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I guess i did overlook a few, you are correct.
However that means that on top of the seven that are for sale (however old the thread may be and commanding a high price tag) there is countless others that are not for sale.
However that means that on top of the seven that are for sale (however old the thread may be and commanding a high price tag) there is countless others that are not for sale.
#59
Don't worry be happy...
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Rotary vs V8….
Seriously guys still going on with this ****? The purists crack me up… Why must the FD have a ROTARY? Why because some engineer designed it that way? Key word SOME engineer not God. You people act like the guys who convert to V8 are messing with human DNA and creating a new type of species… It’s just a car. A car that a humans decided on how to build it, what it should look like, what engine it should have, and how to get a niche in the market in order to boost sales. That’s it, there isn’t some divine intervention when the Rx-7 was created.
I will agree there is something very cool hearing a turbo spool and spanking V8’s around with a 1.3L engine. But what else is there? Not much. I’ll tell you what isn’t cool about a rotary: Finding a knowledgeable mechanic in your area, the outrageous prices associated with our components (search for OMP), the life expectancy of a non-abused engine to be around 100K miles (and I’m being generous). Get a bad tank of gas and guess what? you just blew $5,000 and that’s if you’re lucky and didn’t shoot an apex seal thru the turbo(s). It’s freaking ridiculous.
I just dumped a shitload of $$ into my car. My target goal is 400 RWHP, my plan is only to use that on very special occasions because of the eminent danger of a costly rebuild. If you think about it, how ******* stupid is that? Afraid to smash the pedal after all the money I’ve spent. Yeah I’ve got all the bells and whistles except for AI… I got the wideband, the EGT, the pop off valve, the fuel cut, the ECU, the boost controller. And yeah I am going to get that AI for safety. Given all of those precautions I can only pray that nothing catastrophic occurs and that my engine will last above 50K miles, I would be static if it made it to 100K. Oh and at the end of the day my car is still ILLEGAL to drive in California. If I get caught by the cops I expect to pay a huge *** fine. Again how ******* stupid is that? Why is the rotary so cool? Is it worth it? Why?
V8 guys do get to keep their weight ratio, get to drive their car without fear, get to pass smog and sitll have some nice HP, get to find affordable parts, and mechanics are everywhere. It’s a win win for those dudes. The only thing they lose is the cool factor of a small engine that can make big power. Big deal…
FYI- The majority of automotive enthusiasts don’t see a rotary as a cool factor. They see it as a liability as the Rx-7’s short coming.
I love the FD, that will never change. I think the rotary is cool but a HUGE pain in the *** and not worth the trouble. I don’t know about any of you but I’d rather be dropping cash in Cancun than be dropping cash on ANOTHER rebuild that could possibly blow up again in the near future.
Ha ha I thought the same thing as well… my GF hates the stink coming out my tailpipe. girls don’t give a **** what’s under your hood that is unless it messes with their world. As in exhaust smell…
You and I see eye to eye on this subject.…
Seriously guys still going on with this ****? The purists crack me up… Why must the FD have a ROTARY? Why because some engineer designed it that way? Key word SOME engineer not God. You people act like the guys who convert to V8 are messing with human DNA and creating a new type of species… It’s just a car. A car that a humans decided on how to build it, what it should look like, what engine it should have, and how to get a niche in the market in order to boost sales. That’s it, there isn’t some divine intervention when the Rx-7 was created.
I will agree there is something very cool hearing a turbo spool and spanking V8’s around with a 1.3L engine. But what else is there? Not much. I’ll tell you what isn’t cool about a rotary: Finding a knowledgeable mechanic in your area, the outrageous prices associated with our components (search for OMP), the life expectancy of a non-abused engine to be around 100K miles (and I’m being generous). Get a bad tank of gas and guess what? you just blew $5,000 and that’s if you’re lucky and didn’t shoot an apex seal thru the turbo(s). It’s freaking ridiculous.
I just dumped a shitload of $$ into my car. My target goal is 400 RWHP, my plan is only to use that on very special occasions because of the eminent danger of a costly rebuild. If you think about it, how ******* stupid is that? Afraid to smash the pedal after all the money I’ve spent. Yeah I’ve got all the bells and whistles except for AI… I got the wideband, the EGT, the pop off valve, the fuel cut, the ECU, the boost controller. And yeah I am going to get that AI for safety. Given all of those precautions I can only pray that nothing catastrophic occurs and that my engine will last above 50K miles, I would be static if it made it to 100K. Oh and at the end of the day my car is still ILLEGAL to drive in California. If I get caught by the cops I expect to pay a huge *** fine. Again how ******* stupid is that? Why is the rotary so cool? Is it worth it? Why?
V8 guys do get to keep their weight ratio, get to drive their car without fear, get to pass smog and sitll have some nice HP, get to find affordable parts, and mechanics are everywhere. It’s a win win for those dudes. The only thing they lose is the cool factor of a small engine that can make big power. Big deal…
FYI- The majority of automotive enthusiasts don’t see a rotary as a cool factor. They see it as a liability as the Rx-7’s short coming.
I love the FD, that will never change. I think the rotary is cool but a HUGE pain in the *** and not worth the trouble. I don’t know about any of you but I’d rather be dropping cash in Cancun than be dropping cash on ANOTHER rebuild that could possibly blow up again in the near future.
This is funny, talking about this picking up a girl (in relations to a car) stuff. Reminds me of High School when I thought that kind of thing mattered, but I will oblige you anyway. The FD with a rotary is the worst car for that. Sure it is beautiful, it is also loud and smells like exhaust, oil and gas. If I want to have fun in the car for ME I take the FD. Otherwise I always take the more civilized daily driver. To say the sound detracts you is your opinion.
But for a girl to care about the difference in sound between a rotary and an LS1 is absurd. They will never notice.
But for a girl to care about the difference in sound between a rotary and an LS1 is absurd. They will never notice.
I could care less what a car has under the hood...could be a hampster for all I care. If it is cost efficient, and puts a smile on my face when I DRIVE it.. I am happy.
edit: my reason for owning an FD is because I thought of it as a great driving car, that is incredibly beautiful...not because I thought the rotary was cool or that it had some prestige associated with ownership. That might put me in the minority on this board, so that creates some conflict. One thing is for sure. If my FD gets the LS1 I will look forward to actually getting to drive the car.
edit: my reason for owning an FD is because I thought of it as a great driving car, that is incredibly beautiful...not because I thought the rotary was cool or that it had some prestige associated with ownership. That might put me in the minority on this board, so that creates some conflict. One thing is for sure. If my FD gets the LS1 I will look forward to actually getting to drive the car.
#60
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That's because you have to rev the **** out of a rotary to make any kind of respectable torque numbers. Does your rotary make over 400 lb-ft at the wheels below 5K? Does your rotary make over 400 lb-ft at all? Didn't think so...
#61
The Silent but Deadly Mod
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Just goes to that torque doesn't matter as much as you think.
Personally, I like the rotary engine for it's size and low center of gravity. Swap in aluminum side housings and you have an engine that makes great power, can hold power in the gears around a race track, and weighs almost nothing.
The rotary engine is great for racing.
On the street, it's debatable, as other factors besides just going fast matter.
#64
Many of you are missing the point of the comparison, and you have let your emotions overide your reasoning capacity.
Yes a 400hp LS1 will outlast a 400hp rotary. The idea was what if they both made the same hp/L then how would they compare. We are talking about engine stress. Would a 877whp LS1 in a vette fair as well as for a dayly driver?
Yes a 400hp LS1 will outlast a 400hp rotary. The idea was what if they both made the same hp/L then how would they compare. We are talking about engine stress. Would a 877whp LS1 in a vette fair as well as for a dayly driver?
First there is no way to quantify engine stress in a way to compare it across engine families. Second, how can we compare a forced induction rotary to an NA piston engine in any resonable and logical terms...we can't...they don't compare.
As has been mentioned before a better comparison would be power to physical size, or power to physical weight. Or how about we try another angle, $ per mile driven between major services (rebuilds), at each given power level?
Last edited by cozmo kraemer; 04-16-08 at 04:17 PM.
#65
Thank you, I really like the rotary, I just can't justify the down time associated with owning one. Period. All of my very knowledgeable friends see the FD as a great chassis in search of an engine. I would defend the rotary then but can't really do it any more. This last engine failure sent me over the edge. So I will mate the chassis to another engine and re-evaluate.
#68
6 Speed FC
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Thank you, I really like the rotary, I just can't justify the down time associated with owning one. Period. All of my very knowledgeable friends see the FD as a great chassis in search of an engine. I would defend the rotary then but can't really do it any more. This last engine failure sent me over the edge. So I will mate the chassis to another engine and re-evaluate.
How many ls1'ers build an FD then switch back?
just throwing another log on the fire
#70
Lives on the Forum
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I completely subscribe to the notion that it's your car to do with what you want so it's not about rotary "loyalty" like it's my gang colors or something... but what I see as an annoying common thread amongst V8 conversion guys is this bitter attitude from having been burned by the rotary.
Was there not plenty of information out there on the 3rd Gen RX7 to tell you what they require and what's involved? These cars are thoroughbreds, just like most every high performance car and they require extra maintenance and care. If you don't have the time, money, patience, etc., what the hell did you buy an FD with a blown motor for? Don't tell me about logic.
Per my original "marry a pornstar" analogy, you were expecting the car to be something it isn't.
Was there not plenty of information out there on the 3rd Gen RX7 to tell you what they require and what's involved? These cars are thoroughbreds, just like most every high performance car and they require extra maintenance and care. If you don't have the time, money, patience, etc., what the hell did you buy an FD with a blown motor for? Don't tell me about logic.
Per my original "marry a pornstar" analogy, you were expecting the car to be something it isn't.
That was good.
Ya know, all this diehard Wankel loyalty is kind of annoying. I'm doing a conversion because it's the most logical thing to do. I'm NOT buying a Corvette because I don't like the way they look....or any other f-body likewise—I like the way my 7 looks. Not to mention, I see a vette @ every other red light. I'll be more than happy to keep a rotary engine in my FD, and YOU diehards can come rebuild it every stinkin' time the engine goes kaput, and YOU can tune the crap out of it to give me better MPG. When I bought my FD, the engine was blown, and after the second time, I'd had enough.
Personally, I don't have the time, I don't have the money, and I don't have the patience. The solution was very clear. Go V8. Loyalists can "yeah but, yeah but, yeah but" your way into the next galaxy, and the you still won't have a solid argument other than your emotional attachment to it.
Also I beg to differ that there's a bunch of LS RX7's for sale—hell, I've never even seen one on the road.
Ya know, all this diehard Wankel loyalty is kind of annoying. I'm doing a conversion because it's the most logical thing to do. I'm NOT buying a Corvette because I don't like the way they look....or any other f-body likewise—I like the way my 7 looks. Not to mention, I see a vette @ every other red light. I'll be more than happy to keep a rotary engine in my FD, and YOU diehards can come rebuild it every stinkin' time the engine goes kaput, and YOU can tune the crap out of it to give me better MPG. When I bought my FD, the engine was blown, and after the second time, I'd had enough.
Personally, I don't have the time, I don't have the money, and I don't have the patience. The solution was very clear. Go V8. Loyalists can "yeah but, yeah but, yeah but" your way into the next galaxy, and the you still won't have a solid argument other than your emotional attachment to it.
Also I beg to differ that there's a bunch of LS RX7's for sale—hell, I've never even seen one on the road.
#71
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Here, ill help you out a bit.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=748608
member: dan81386
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=741583
member: jarrett H
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=740597
member: lonelydriver
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=736085
member: accel junky
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=745133
member: snyper
The car is not really complete but its basically a complete car and ready to go. The guy just took his LS1 out for another project. Everything seems ready for just the LS1 to go in and you're done.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=714883
member: ctribb01
Thread is kinda old but looks like its still for sale
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=740789
member: LS1rx7forsale
So that makes, it, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. 7!!! LS swapped FD's for sale in 3 pages. How you missed them i have no idea.
I even jotted down the member names so you wont think its just a repost of the same car by the same person.
Btw, i dont really care about how many v8 "rx7s" there are. Maybe i should have stated earlier, I AM talking about v8 swapped FD's.
I could care less if all the FB's are v8 swapped. Good for them. My argument is on the FD side.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=748608
member: dan81386
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=741583
member: jarrett H
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=740597
member: lonelydriver
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=736085
member: accel junky
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=745133
member: snyper
The car is not really complete but its basically a complete car and ready to go. The guy just took his LS1 out for another project. Everything seems ready for just the LS1 to go in and you're done.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=714883
member: ctribb01
Thread is kinda old but looks like its still for sale
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=740789
member: LS1rx7forsale
So that makes, it, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. 7!!! LS swapped FD's for sale in 3 pages. How you missed them i have no idea.
I even jotted down the member names so you wont think its just a repost of the same car by the same person.
Btw, i dont really care about how many v8 "rx7s" there are. Maybe i should have stated earlier, I AM talking about v8 swapped FD's.
I could care less if all the FB's are v8 swapped. Good for them. My argument is on the FD side.
#72
6 Speed FC
iTrader: (2)
I completely subscribe to the notion that it's your car to do with what you want so it's not about rotary "loyalty" like it's my gang colors or something... but what I see as an annoying common thread amongst V8 conversion guys is this bitter attitude from having been burned by the rotary.
Was there not plenty of information out there on the 3rd Gen RX7 to tell you what they require and what's involved? These cars are thoroughbreds, just like most every high performance car and they require extra maintenance and care. If you don't have the time, money, patience, etc., what the hell did you buy an FD with a blown motor for? Don't tell me about logic.
Per my original "marry a pornstar" analogy, you were expecting the car to be something it isn't.
Was there not plenty of information out there on the 3rd Gen RX7 to tell you what they require and what's involved? These cars are thoroughbreds, just like most every high performance car and they require extra maintenance and care. If you don't have the time, money, patience, etc., what the hell did you buy an FD with a blown motor for? Don't tell me about logic.
Per my original "marry a pornstar" analogy, you were expecting the car to be something it isn't.
why be ordinary, when you can be extraordinary?
#73
#74
6 Speed FC
iTrader: (2)
#75
I knew what I was getting into. I followed the appropriate procedures with this car, I am very knowledgeable about the rotary and very patient. There just comes a time when you are throwing good money after bad and it is time to start anew. I love the FD chassis, so the engine is all that has to go. Lucky for me LS1s are cheap, plentiful and there are a host of companies that off kits to install them. If I am dissatisfied, I will be the first person to dig this very thread back up and scold these very posts I have typed.