KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

I guess I agree with you, because the 2017 option with less power for $35K is something that would be reachable for me and the younger generation.

ZDan

Agree 100%, and don't hate to say it
Even disregarding price, I would tremendously prefer smaller, less weight and less horsepower vs. a 450hp rotary Corvette...

Probably not realistic to expect such a car to weigh less than the new Miata, which will most likely be in the 2300-2400 lb. range, though.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Probably not realistic to expect such a car to weigh less than the new Miata, which will most likely be in the 2300-2400 lb. range, though.

Maybe not, but I want to keep saying it because it seems completely possible to me.

Take new MX-5-
Fixed roof instead of convertible
Lighter rotary engine
$10,000 worth of weight reduction through CF, etc.
Extreme performance model available (no AC, sound deadening, etc)

=$35k 2,000lb 250hp rotary baby super car (like an Alfa 4C that can handle)

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

I love this idea

However the 4c is no where near a super car. The next mustang v8 will kick its ***

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

However the 4c is no where near a super car.

I agree, I should have used my quotes to be more clear. "baby super car".

There is a qualifier.

I think the 4C has a position close to what the NSX did in the '90s as a "Japanese super car". There is a qualifier in there too...

MisterX

They'd never go the carbon fiber route utilizing the Miata's chassis; there'd probably be little to no weight-savings advantage in the end. I'd rather see a carbon tub (if the 4C can be $55K with one, and everyone knows euro crap is all way overpriced vs the japs) 2500 lb (realistically) 3 rotor turbo to compete with anything out there < $300K.

Dvst8

iTrader: (6)

.

RCCAZ 1

iTrader: (10)

Guys, while the 4C has interesting styling, performance-wise it's mediocre and not something that Mazda should aspire to for its HALO car. Calling it "super" anything is a bit overhyped, wouldn't you agree?

Ok....so just read the specs. Under 2000 lb dry (nice), 0 to 60 in 4.5 secs (respectable). What does that equate to quarter-mile wise? 14 secs? Hmmm, I hope Mazda is aiming a little higher on the performance stick.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

as pointed out before, my friends wife's 2012 Rav 4 runs 14 flat...

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Ok....so just read the specs. Under 2000 lb dry (nice), 0 to 60 in 4.5 secs (respectable). What does that equate to quarter-mile wise? 14 secs? Hmmm, I hope Mazda is aiming a little higher on the performance stick.

The Euro base model 4C is just under 2,000lbs (US one will be 2,400lbs) and 240hp with turbo torque, mid engine weight distribution and a fast shifting dual clutch 6 speed-

the stock 1/4 mile time is 12.5 seconds.

4.2second 0-60mph using the stock launch control.

Its turbo so it will spew easy HP with mods.

I don't see a conflict calling it the CF chassis, mid engine, turbo C4 a "baby supercar" and soon modified examples will be proving just that on the track.

Julian

iTrader: (14)

A extract from an interview with Lotus CEO: "Another car Gales mentions is the Alfa Romeo 4C. Size and performance-wise, the 4C fits somewhere between the Evora and the Elise, but Gales is keen to point out that the 4C’s carbon tub is only eight pounds lighter than the Elise’s aluminum tub which is now 17 years old. Even in it’s current form, the Evora wouldn’t have a very hard time leaving a 4C behind, but the recently confirmed, more powerful 4C that’s in the works could be a different story."

17 years to save 8 lbs, great progress.

You can wish for $34k car, but if that is the price point it will not be a brand pushing product; the most important think the RX-7 has been and needs to be to Mazda is their flagship in the form of the best Japanese sports car. And the best of japan and be functionally best of world. Would be great to be under 75k but folks it may need to push near 100k. When I ordered my R2 in 1995 the MSRP was 42k .. that is about 75k in todays worthless money; my current new sports car is well into 6 figures but I would gladly buy the next RX-7 as an upgrade.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i really (really) like the 4C. (O K the auto trans sucks)

IMO it is the perfect template for a new Gen RX7... not the mid engine thing as Mazda already has weight distribution nailed w the lightweight compact 2 rotor.

i like the size and weight of the 4c. you do not need a gazzillion hp to have the best drive on the planet. you need 2400 or thereabouts weight, around 300/350 hp and a racecar suspension... (i am not talking about stiff springs per se but the right amount of camber gain on bump).

Mazda's DNA is NOT GTR or Corvette.

feather light chassis and a medium amount of hp w the right chassis and you will be shocked how many prisoners can be taken on a road course. there are many on this board, including me, that know this to be a fact.

i remain of a "show me" attitude as to whether we will see another rotary as the real cost of educating the service side of the equation for a small number of units would be crazy.

maybe this aspect might work in both Mazda and my favor as what i would most like to see is a cheapo REAR WHEEL DRIVE rotary sedan. think... RX3. while it is odds against, as most everything is disgusting front wheel drive, IF Mazda were to make a switch back to the proper drive package i will wager that they couldn't make enough of them.

the ultimate 21st century tuner car for the masses.

that would of course rationalise the cost of re-offering an entirely different powertrain for the RX7 as it would amortize it over tons and tons of units.

maybe something like this?





come on Mazda, you know you want to...

howard

HiWire

That's funny, I was just reading about the RX-3's escalating market value (and increasing scarcity) in a magazine this week.

I'm OK with the next RX-7/RX-9 being in the higher price ranges – I won't be able to afford it, though. It makes more sense to market the rotary as a flagship/exotic like the GT-R than to fight in the low-mid area of the market against Toyobarus (FR-S/BRZ), Mustangs, 370Z, used Vettes, Caymans, M3s, etc. Every other performance car competitor will have more power than a N/A two-rotor in the FB/FC style. It's rumored that Nissan is planning a Silvia replacement and Toyota's FT-1 seems promising.

It's true that carbon fiber is not the solution to every problem. There are plenty of hypercars with carbon fiber tubs weighing well over 3,000 lbs.

It doesn't make sense for Mazda to market a low-speed rotary scooter because the MX-5 already occupies this position. The Mazdaspeed3 was faster in a straight line than the RX-8.

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

I have a couple friends that work at Mazda and what gave the rx8 such a terrible reputation and almost bank rupt Mazda was the first gen renesis so many engines would blow up that Mazda had to extend the warranty on the motors the first gen renesis were very unreliable specially for the general public that did not take extra care of the rotary

The number of motor replacements is what killed the 8

MisterX

Wonder which one would fare better in crash tests . . . . my guess'd be the 4C. It'd probably come out the winner in bending rigidity, too. $55K european-made carbon tubbed sportscar does bode well for the more efficient far east manufacturers who tend to price their product much more fairly, at least the wishful thinkers would admit so.

Spirit-RE

iTrader: (25)

How many carbon tubs have made it out of Japan? Oh the LFA, completely cost effective to its competition.

But the company within a company that has access to another company's (Ferrari) tech on carbon monocoques, wouldn't be ahead in the cost/R&D than Mazda, who would have to engineer it from the ground up?






The fact that the elise/exige is no longer sold here as a street legal car answers that.


Supercar no, but still an exotic. And pretty sure no one buying a 4c cares that a mustang can set a better lap time.





I would absolutely love to see a mid engine, carbon tub, turbo rotary. A 4C by Mazda, sized the same. It will burn up before it needs a rebuild


Regardless of engine/chassis/power etc, a good dual clutch offered by Mazda optional in their next sport car would be neat.

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

I disagree 100% with this LOL , I like regular light weight manual trans

fritts

iTrader: (5)

If we get another RX-7 it will be based off the Miata and be a 30-45k car. There is no way Mazda will try and sell a 75-100k "halo" car. The development dollars for Mazda to do so are not there.

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

Doesn't need to be a halo car , mazda has always been famous for doing more with less .

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

what is faster the Maclaren MP4-12C or a spec miata on hoosiers?

the Maclaren is faster, but not by as much as you'd think...

MisterX

The one lone example of an overpriced Japanese car (yet only relative to anything previously released from the land of the rising sun) -- whose production was very limited, a la the supercars from Ferrari the last 2 decades -- yet, when considering the competition (Carrera GT, Enzo) in the scheme of things was priced in line with others. Can you name an exotic from that time period whose V10 screamed like an F1 car, had a carbon tub, and was priced less than $400K? Yeah, didn't think so.
I doubt much carbon tech transferred from the $1.5 million LF to its corporate cousin, the 4C; there are afterall different grades of carbon, and different manufacuring techniques. My main point was that by Alfa doing so other manufacturers can feasibly opt to produce a carbon-tubbed car at that price point. And since this thread is about the 4th gen 7, well . . . .
Just a guess, but production of those cars most likely ended due to lack of sales, not because you allege that it couldn't pass crash tests.

Spirit-RE

iTrader: (25)

lol, allege.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Depends on the track.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

we were at infineon/sears point/sonoma. we're prepping a borrowed car for the NASA nationals, the Maclaren people were just at the track, in cars

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Depends on the track.

Yeah, I was just thinking of this too.

It seems like the old Northern California tracks from the '50s/60s (Sonoma Raceway and Laguna Seca) catered to the British imports popular with racers in that region and time. Their focus is on handling.

In the rest of the country (where people preferred American iron) tracks were created that included 1/2mile to incredible 1.1mile (Riverside) back straights to keep the American cars winning against the superior handling imports.

Politics always rules racing...