t-von

iTrader: (8)

Personally, the only way to justify that kind if price tag is to go the 24x route in a Mazdaspeed 3 rotor option. An NA Rx7 with 450+hp up and less than 2,800lbs would take care most any other big block at that price point. This would put the lbs per hp at 6.2lbs. Good luck finding anything at that price range making that kind of per to weight. This Rx7 would destroy everything under 100k.

HiWire

Is there any significant emissions difference between a 2-rotor or 3-rotor design? A 9,000 RPM NA 24X 3-rotor would be easier to take straight to racing (e.g. SpeedSource style), right? Also, the fuel economy of the direct injection 16X derivation should be improved from previous designs.

Maybe Mazda should enter a prototype engine in endurance racing, like Audi, Porsche, Bentley, and Aston Martin, but for privateer teams. That would allow them to push the envelope without breaking the bank.

Mazda is still running the Pro Mazda (formerly Star Mazda) racing series using Renesis engines from SpeedSource. This would be another good place put the 16X/24X engine – give them to the teams and set them up to qualify and challenge manufacturers in other racing series (e.g., the Indy Lights).

http://www.starmazda.com/series/specifications.htm

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

So what? None of those Le Mans prototype cars pass emissions—it's not even a consideration.


Right. To proved the reliability of the ROTARY ENGINE and nothing else. Regardless of the fact that it was p-ported. To what end if you aren't going to actually sell them?


Well not really. The RX8 and the Miata shared a platform, so the "design language" isn't really an issue. When I say, "put a rotary in a Miata" I'm saying, use the platform to build something desireable. It doesn't have to look exactly like or be called a "Miata". Call it an RX5 (remember the Miata was the MX5) or whatever. The point is, the car was practically made already, all you have to do is put it together and collect your money.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Emission wise, there's no difference. Each combustion chamber is gonna release a specific amount of pollutants. With a 3 rotor, you have one more chamber causing pollutants. So you counter that additional amount, with larger cats that are capable of cleaning for that engines displacement. Your average 4 cylinder has 1 cat but a v6 and v8 has 1 cat for each bank of cylinders. Even the I6 in the bmws split 2 cats for only 3 cylinders each.

RCCAZ 1

iTrader: (10)

Speaking of emissions and CATs, whatever happened to news a few years back about Mazda having some new breakthrough technology with catalytic converters. Have they ever brought that technology to market?

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Tim I think that technology is specific to the rotary. This new cat is the number 1 reason the Rotary will return and what got this thread started in the 1st place (see post #1). Now it's just a matter of when Mazda will get situated with all their product releases so the rotary can live again. We just have to wait.

Natey

iTrader: (19)

I'm staying tuned.
mx5cartalk.com • View topic - NC Track Car - In the Build






.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Lots of cool P cars that are heavily modded from each decade but ZERO with original engine that are FAST by today's standard, including the 997 GT3 hehe.

That's exactly what they should build along with a 2 rotor for the guy who doesn't need a race car on the street.

As Pete mentioned they already have the parts they just need to put it together.

Look at the trouble people go through to get a 3 rotor in various cars imagine how cool/popular a factory 3 rotor engine would be. I seriously believe that if it's built right and supported in the race world it could be a HUGE success and could potentially catapult the RX7 into the big leagues with the viper and the corvette etc..... and cost MUCH less I'm thinking bare bones exige type car with a 3 rotor. No fancy-pants interior like the GTR, corvette, mustang etc.... Just bare bones with clean lines inside and out similar to the FD

I believe there's a lot of people waiting for such a car. The electronicadatadigibitgadget crap in modern cars is GETTING SO OLD!!!!!!

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

being a financial/investment analyst for 37 years i can certainly understand Mazda's need to sell X number of units to justify whatever they need to invest to bring the rotary into the (weird) 21st century.

and the RX7 won't ring that bell.

alone.

the RX3 rings the bell. and Mazda already has most of the platform in the Miata.

the world would go crazy over a cheap light rear drive NA rotary powered sedan. crazy as in selling whatever the units needed to justify the expense.

crazy as in re-introducing Mazda to kids again.

make it tuner friendly.

the RX3 would also provide the topline impact so Mazda could stir in a new RX7.

i would be first in line to buy the new 16X RX3 and have it all apart the next day.

come on Mazda.



Howard

fmzambon

Rotary option for the Mx-5. Done. Nearly zero chassis development costs, smaller and lighter engine in an already extremely light car.
Design that engine for 300hp, detune it to 200hp or so for the Mx-5 and then use that as a test for the full-power 300hp engine for the Rx-7.

Perhaps, as I said before, use the rotary in the speed 3 and 6 as well.

A 3 rotor is, unfortunately, out of the question. If more displacement is needed, they could just build a larger 2 rotor. And for the same reason I think forced induction is out as well.

Andrea.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I think you are delusional if you believe just throwing a rotary in any vehicle is a good thing for the brand.

I know Howard has a special place in his heart for the RX3, but again, youngsters today don't even know what the RX3 is/was... Mazda would have to come out with something that appeals to the young drivers... Throwing a rotary in a Miata isn't going to do it since most non-Spec Miata drivers think it's a female's car.

Natey

iTrader: (19)

fmzambon

I didn't propose that as a good thing for the brand name, but as a way to increase the production figures for the rotary. And it would be just an option for these models (Rx excluded).

If you use it as a way to avoid having to develop another high power engine for just a few models, you can even save money doing that.

Besides, I think it would help in increasing the general awareness about the rotary existence. And in improving the dealer service for rotaries, as there would more of them running around.

Andrea.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

I think that's exactly what Howard is proposing a cool little Rx3 type car would be exactly what the young crowd wants and some old folks would also dig it.

Bringing something back that's retro would also be really cool because that was a GREAT original design.

However another RX7 should also be developed and as mentioned countless times in this thread a 3 rotor would be the engine of choice IF it can get decent mileage and run flawlessly.

This thread shouldn't close until there's another rotary buzzing around

wstrohm

I vote for a small, light rear-mid rotary (N/A) mounted cross-wise, with integral tranny & diff. My fave-handling car was my '78 X-1/9. Next to that was my '85 MR2, then my '67 Datsun 1600, then our '94 FD, then my '90 Miata. I always liked quicker turn-in/turn-out than you can get in a F/R car.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I can't say that I agree there.. The reaction so far from the retro Datsun as been anything but positive from the 20-somethings.

Julian

iTrader: (14)

3 ticks quicker than a Miata Skip Barber MX5 Cup car on street tires

$63.8k for an available Cayman? is a dream if you can find it (new) more likely optioned out to 75-95 or more. Rx7's hit $42/44 K in 94 then the market crashed. There is no reason to think that the can sell at Corvette prices, they did in the late 80's early 90's.

But this treads is right (unfortunately) that if the car is too focused, not enough buyers will emerge; again Corvette model may be way to have sales volume and performance. 50k, 75, 100 or 125k take you pick of model entry .. the 50 k cars pay for the RnD on the ZO6 and ZR1's, while those cars satisfy the hunger of the few diehards and pull the lesser models along in the marketing hype.

I have a Lotus that I gladly paid in the 90's msrp for custom order, later mod'd into 120's while most buyers either complain that used prices 50-70's are too low or used prices are too high .. seller-buyer market not balanced. Bottom line no price point is right fro everybody

Jaemc

iTrader: (1)

Sincerely wish this is still coming true.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Cool I actually like it. Sort of a 510 retro.

20 somethings don't have a clue what they really want LOL

Looks a hell of lot better than all the little eco boxes out now.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

If I had my way, we would have those two models. A base 16x w/300hp Rx7 starting at 35k with all the trim levels and a limited edition Mazdaspeed 24x w/450hp starting at 50k.

Natey

iTrader: (19)

Comparing a stripped out race car to a street car with AC and power seats isn't apples to apples. How about a well prepped Cayman Cup car vs that MX5 Cup car?

MisterX

Sure they do. They don't want cars; their interests lie in electronic gadgets (As lame as that is).

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Yep, which is also why cars are full of that SH#####T

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

LOL

If you want to go fast mod your FD or buy a viper or corvette

Laguna Lap | Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca Fastest Lap Road Tests - Motor Trend Magazine

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

This thread could bump me to 10000 post by the new year