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I'd like to get some additional insight on the Power FC, but more specifically its downsides and reasons not to get it. I currently have a downpipe and cat-back meaning any additional engine mods are off-limits on the stock ECU. Even though my intent with the car has always been to leave it as OEM and worry-free as possible, I'd like to keep my options open.
There is conflicting info to its downsides and I wasn't able to get a consensus after a search, with issues only on some cars vs. others. Can anyone clarify?
I cant think of any reason other than passing smog, and most smog techs wont have any idea its there if you hide the commander. The benefits are huge. My car got better gas mileage, and idled/ran so much better after the PFC. Being able to tune to what your car needs is a great improvement.
Do you have 3k hesitation on the stock ecu? If not and you don't plan to go beyond 10-12lbs with bolt ons, I'd recommend the Pettit remapped stock ecu. You will never have a tune on the PFC that runs as good as the factory ecu if you aren't experiencing the 3k hesitation.
I love the PFC don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure it's needed in your situation.
.... I currently have a downpipe anId cat-back meaning any additional engine mods are off-limits on the stock ECU. Even though my intent with the car has always been to leave it as OEM and worry-free as possible, I'd like to keep my options open.
With just these mods, I see no reason you can't keep the stock ECU if you want to. How much "additional mods" do you have in mind? You can probably still add something like a Cheap Bastard intake on as long as you hold 10 psi. I ran that for years with absolutely no issues.
No experience with the other standalones but downsides...
*Cost.
*Need to self-education if you're not tech-friendly like me....although there's a lot of helpful info on the forum, particularly stickys by DaleClark in the PFC section.
*I'd be sure to get a newer OLED display commander.
*You lose the immediate CEL notifications that something isn't right, so you have to check the sensor screen occasionally to make sure there's nothing shaded. Usually not a big deal, but if something like the OMP stops working that's important to know.
You may have problems with your AC compressor engaging at some fan speeds.
Your info shows California, if you are in an enhanced test area (with the dyno test) it will be difficult to pass emissions with the PFC (you will at minimum need to modify the check engine light circuit so that it looks like it is functioning correctly). If you are in a non-enhanced area with idle/2500RPM non-loaded testing then it will be relatively easy to pass with a good tune on the PFC, but you will still need the check engine light mod. So you will have to ask yourself how much work do you want to do every two years at smog check time.
I currently have a downpipe and cat-back meaning any additional engine mods are off-limits on the stock ECU.
lol... I'm not even going to bother with that one anymore.
Originally Posted by 94 R2
Even though my intent with the car has always been to leave it as OEM and worry-free as possible, I'd like to keep my options open.
Like DJ said unless you are having the 3K RPM hesitation you don't need a PFC. Besides if you want to keep the car stock then stop messing with it. Amp said it best:
Originally Posted by amp
pfc is the gateway drug...
your intent of keeping her stock gets harder...
opening a bag and only having only one potato chip....
lol... Yeah I started out with a 100% stock car and look at me now
Originally Posted by Sgtblue
No experience with the other standalones but downsides...
*Cost.
*You lose the immediate CEL notifications that something isn't right, so you have to check the sensor screen occasionally to make sure there's nothing shaded. Usually not a big deal, but if something like the OMP stops working that's important to know.
yep... and other downsides are:
It is ancient technology - but it works
You won't pass smog without some rewiring on your part- As your engine light will no longer turn on when you first turn the key.
How much dose the pettit remapped ecu go for these days ?
Used in the $175-300.00 range. It is the most fun you will have on stock twins at 12-13lbs or less. I used to run 15-16lbs on it back in the day with fuel pressure turned up, unbreakable seals and water meth. I'm not saying I recommend it for everyone at those levels but hard to beat an FD with about $2-3k in performance mods that traps 95mph in the 1/8th mile and idled/ran like stock when you weren't on the gas pedal.
I will add the Pettit ecu does run more rich at idle so the fuel smell is increased. The biggest plus the me for the PFC is the built in gauges and less stinky idle and cruising if you know how to change the settings a little.
Used in the $175-300.00 range. It is the most fun you will have on stock twins at 12-13lbs or less. I used to run 15-16lbs on it back in the day with fuel pressure turned up, unbreakable seals and water meth. I'm not saying I recommend it for everyone at those levels but hard to beat an FD with about $2-3k in performance mods that traps 95mph in the 1/8th mile and idled/ran like stock when you weren't on the gas pedal.
I will add the Pettit ecu does run more rich at idle so the fuel smell is increased. The biggest plus the me for the PFC is the built in gauges and less stinky idle and cruising if you know how to change the settings a little.
hmm maybe i should toy with that before i install and tune my pfc . Currently have a catback,down pipe and modded stock airbox
dose it keep all the stock funtions and just runs richer over all ?
all the CEL still work as it should ?
hmm maybe i should toy with that before i install and tune my pfc . Currently have a catback,down pipe and modded stock airbox
dose it keep all the stock funtions and just runs richer over all ?
all the CEL still work as it should ?
It is essentially a stock ecu with the fuel cut removed and the entire fuel map richened up. If you throw water/meth on your car, install a midpipe and good fuel pump you will have a blast at 13-14lbs.
That thread is what prompted me to make this post. I would modify the car with the same philosophy, if I chose to at all, which basically makes the PFC a requirement to continue. Sure some would say there's a little more wiggle room with the stock ECU, but I have no reason to test that.
I'm inclined to leave well enough alone. The car runs flawlessly as is the way it was delivered to me last month (no detectable 3K hesitation)...but there will always be that itch.
... Sure some would say there's a little more wiggle room with the stock ECU, but I have no reason to test that.
Originally Posted by Banzai-Racing
The AFR's with the Intake, DP & Catback with the stock ECU remained safe in the low 11's. I should mention that we had installed a Walbro 255 back when we were doing the initial repairs and DP install earlier this year. I can't say that the stock pump would yield the same results.
Your call, but way back in the day there was also the "3 mod rule". This would also seem to confirm that. And since in California the PFC has some baggage over the stock ECU, it seems you might have a reason and it's not a test. The Cheap Bastard intake was 'invented' by Adam, also a Californian and would be invisible to a visual inspection.
You can do 20 mods on the stock ecu or any number you want as long as you keep boost at or below 10lbs with the stock ecu and twins. The 3 mod rule was around in the big list days. It's been proven wrong for over 15 years now.
The point is, as I said in my first post, intake, dp and cat-back is fine on the stock ECU at 10 psi. He's talking about pushing some kind of envelope if it added anything more than his DP and cat-back. He isn't.
In his case a PFC, or any standalone, isn't a must-have IMO. And it sounds like it's more trouble than it's worth where he lives. He MIGHT need a BC with an intake, but that's not going to affect emissions.
Price for a new PFC is the same as a new Adaptronic PNP. and from my calculations, a Adaptronic can do everything the stock ECU does (in terms of in/out)
The PFC doesn't idle very well, even when it is tuned. It just doesn't have very good idle control logic. It doesn't handle accessory loads as well for example.
That thread is what prompted me to make this post. I would modify the car with the same philosophy, if I chose to at all, which basically makes the PFC a requirement to continue. Sure some would say there's a little more wiggle room with the stock ECU, but I have no reason to test that.
I'm inclined to leave well enough alone. The car runs flawlessly as is the way it was delivered to me last month (no detectable 3K hesitation)...but there will always be that itch.
A good tuner will have the PFC idling pretty smooth at 800. Nothing idles as good as the stock ecu that I'm aware of. It's butter smooth at 700 in a healthy car.
For the money I don't know of a better option. It's been proven to work and in my experience works very well for anything under 400 HP.
I've never owned an FD that I drove for more than 1k miles that didn't hesitate/buck at some point. Some are literally so bad I don't want to drive them. Others it shows up occasionally but THEY ALL HESITATE.
PS the 94 cars have an EGR that goes out very quickly and you'll see the check engine light come on. PFC solves this as well. The plus's and minus's of the stock ecu vs PFC isn't even a discussion. PFC crushes it.
The 3k RPM hesitation is a bug in the stock ECU, plain and simple. Adding grounds helps but won't eliminate it.
It's a problem when the secondary injectors stage.
I've seen cars that would throw you out of the seat with the 3k hesitation, bolt a PowerFC in right out of the box and it's GONE, like not even the slightest hint. Ergo, it's the ECU.
The other thing the PowerFC has an advantage on is removal of the air pump. With the stock ECU if you remove the air pump the car will idle rougher and is jerky at low throttle. The stock ECU knows that the air pump is injecting air in the manifold and fudges the numbers it gets from the O2 sensor to compensate. With no air pump it fudges the numbers the wrong way and the car runs like crap. Not sure if the Pettit ECU fixes this or not. The PowerFC you can either tune it out or just turn O2 feedback off.
My 94 when I got it (68,000 miles at the time) had a stock ECU, it did have 3K hesitation but it was minor, a little blip you would feel.
I have heard the later JDM 16-bit ECU's (96+) do a lot better and drive a lot better. But, you're looking at a whole different wiring harness and a lot of wiring work to make that happen.
03-26-18, 07:20 PM
