If you had to give up your FD
04-07-11, 06:31 PM
#401
*** Bless The USA
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My thought about the NSX:
Well I like Eric’s car as it is very nice looking indeed. The biggest thing IMO that the NSX has is its looks but overall I am not a fan of the car otherwise I’d own one by now.
When I test drove one back in 98 the interior reminded me of my friend’s honda accord. I remember thinking ‘this is a 90K car???’. But my main gripe with them is their HP output vs price. I see one on the road and they are just beautiful but at the same time I find their output right down embarrassing given how much they cost new.
This is what I'm talking about:
If I had to replace my FD with a realistic sports car it be a C6 Z06. I’d take that any day over Porsche, NSX, supra…But not over my seven. What can I say I love FD’s that is why I still own one.
Well I like Eric’s car as it is very nice looking indeed. The biggest thing IMO that the NSX has is its looks but overall I am not a fan of the car otherwise I’d own one by now.
When I test drove one back in 98 the interior reminded me of my friend’s honda accord. I remember thinking ‘this is a 90K car???’. But my main gripe with them is their HP output vs price. I see one on the road and they are just beautiful but at the same time I find their output right down embarrassing given how much they cost new.
This is what I'm talking about:
If I had to replace my FD with a realistic sports car it be a C6 Z06. I’d take that any day over Porsche, NSX, supra…But not over my seven. What can I say I love FD’s that is why I still own one.
04-07-11, 06:42 PM
#402
Beautiful car Viking,
I just came from the doctors office & he thinks selling my car would be in my back's best interest (herniated disc). My wife says with a big smile, are you gonna get a new Camaro now? I tell her no. She replies well the doctor said! I come back with IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HE THINKS! (Jeez I've got to stop watching wrestling with the boys..)
I just came from the doctors office & he thinks selling my car would be in my back's best interest (herniated disc). My wife says with a big smile, are you gonna get a new Camaro now? I tell her no. She replies well the doctor said! I come back with IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HE THINKS! (Jeez I've got to stop watching wrestling with the boys..)
04-07-11, 07:17 PM
#403
I have to comment here. First off there were only roughly 6600 TURBO MKIVs that were sold in the US, half of the total number of FDs. Add the fact only 2300 were 6 speeds and you have a collectable. Turbo Supras are simply more rare than the FD.
I have spent a lot of times around Supras back when I was buying and selling a lot with SpeedForSale.com. I will argue to my death the FD is a more fun car to drive and looks better. However, trying to say a RX7, NSX or 240 will stand the test of time over a Supra is a big reach. Mazda and Nissan put out great efforts with the RX7 and 300Z but Toyota really had their **** together with the MKIV Supra.
A factory engine(with aftermarket head studs), transmission and rear diff that could handle repeat abuse from 1000+rwhp setups was unheard of back then. No one knew what that car was capable of until the late 90s except for Toyota. The over all quality of that car is leaps and bounds ahead of the FD and a good bit ahead of the 300zx. The stock computer can run about 5-6psi of boost over the factory setting safely and the car can make 420-440rwhp with exhaust, bbc, and FMIC. The braking of the Supra wasnt rivaled by many if any in its time. Here is a quote I found from a magazine source "This unique Formula One-inspired braking system allowed the Supra Turbo to record a 70 mph (110 km/h) -0 braking distance of 149 feet (45 m),[20] the best braking performance of any production car tested in 1997 by Car and Driver magazine. This record was finally broken in 2004 by 3 feet (0.91 m) by a Porsche Carrera GT."
As much as I make fun of the MKIVs and especially their owners there are really only a handful of cars that can compare to them in an all around performance test, and they are all exotics with the exception of the Viper and New Z06 which still arent cheap.
Ive yet to find another car that "does it" for me like the FD anywhere in a comparable price range. Though I will never own a MKIV Supra(its a matter of principle from all the crap I have talked over the years) I can appreciate what Toyota accomplished 20 years ago long before anyone else.
I have spent a lot of times around Supras back when I was buying and selling a lot with SpeedForSale.com. I will argue to my death the FD is a more fun car to drive and looks better. However, trying to say a RX7, NSX or 240 will stand the test of time over a Supra is a big reach. Mazda and Nissan put out great efforts with the RX7 and 300Z but Toyota really had their **** together with the MKIV Supra.
A factory engine(with aftermarket head studs), transmission and rear diff that could handle repeat abuse from 1000+rwhp setups was unheard of back then. No one knew what that car was capable of until the late 90s except for Toyota. The over all quality of that car is leaps and bounds ahead of the FD and a good bit ahead of the 300zx. The stock computer can run about 5-6psi of boost over the factory setting safely and the car can make 420-440rwhp with exhaust, bbc, and FMIC. The braking of the Supra wasnt rivaled by many if any in its time. Here is a quote I found from a magazine source "This unique Formula One-inspired braking system allowed the Supra Turbo to record a 70 mph (110 km/h) -0 braking distance of 149 feet (45 m),[20] the best braking performance of any production car tested in 1997 by Car and Driver magazine. This record was finally broken in 2004 by 3 feet (0.91 m) by a Porsche Carrera GT."
As much as I make fun of the MKIVs and especially their owners there are really only a handful of cars that can compare to them in an all around performance test, and they are all exotics with the exception of the Viper and New Z06 which still arent cheap.
Ive yet to find another car that "does it" for me like the FD anywhere in a comparable price range. Though I will never own a MKIV Supra(its a matter of principle from all the crap I have talked over the years) I can appreciate what Toyota accomplished 20 years ago long before anyone else.
I am actually quite surprised to see so many negative comments about Supra. People should give credit where credit is due. This is a RX7 forum so I expect people to be biased but the criticism is on borderline hate which I don't get.
I love my RX7 a lot but if I bought a Supra or a GTR or a NSX I would probably be just as happy and satisfied. With today's aftermarket parts you can extract the kind of fun you're after from almost any car given that car has a good base to start with.
As for being a classic or not, to me a Supra is already one of the legends for many reasons and the looks doesn't really matter because you'll see plenty of legendary cars that are butt ugly to start with (not saying supra is) or turned ugly with age. It's about what a car has brought to the table, the overall package and what people think of it. Having said that what passionate RX7 owners here think about the Supra doesn't really matter. It's what the enthusiasts around the world thinks that will make the Supra a classic or not. A good measure would be automotive media. I wish there was a count of how many car magazine covers and articles Supra, RX7, NSX, GTR and others were in.
Another thing is, people should specify which GTR they are talking about cause I am mainly talking about R32 and R33 and maybe a bit about R34 (it was released towards the end of supra and rx7s lives, yes both the supra and the RX7 ran into 2002 but with no big changes like the r34). The new GTR is in a league of it's own and I don't think it has a place in this thread.
About the fun factor and trackability of Supra, I'll post the following videos:
(Supra action starts around 10min mark)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4xFx_O7ux4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij6bC...eature=related
Tell me if any of these cars is less fun or trackable than the other. Remember it's partly the car but it's also partly what you do with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2HAeZM8ZG0
04-07-11, 07:23 PM
#404
Although it's not a deciding factor for me and I think the NSX interior is very nice, the cluster panel like Montego said looks just like any other Honda. Old GTR cluster panels and dashboards were also not special. So I'd say RX7 and Supra win hands down in cockpit design.
04-07-11, 07:35 PM
#405
Although it's not a deciding factor for me and I think the NSX interior is very nice, the cluster panel like Montego said looks just like any other Honda. Old GTR cluster panels and dashboards were also not special. So I'd say RX7 and Supra win hands down in cockpit design.
The gauges are MASSIVE, the door speakers bulge out against your leg, and there isn't any real sense of STYLE. The FD's interior is obviously 99% performance-minded, but at least it's got a little style....chrome trim on the gauges...the door panels (as POS as they are..lol)
1.) FD Interior
2.) NSX Interior
----
-----
--------
100.) Supra interior
04-07-11, 07:59 PM
#406
Besides the obvious ****-pit (turned towards driver) interior of the Supra...I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE SUPRA INTERIOR.
The gauges are MASSIVE, the door speakers bulge out against your leg, and there isn't any real sense of STYLE. The FD's interior is obviously 99% performance-minded, but at least it's got a little style....chrome trim on the gauges...the door panels (as POS as they are..lol)
1.) FD Interior
2.) NSX Interior
----
-----
--------
100.) Supra interior
The gauges are MASSIVE, the door speakers bulge out against your leg, and there isn't any real sense of STYLE. The FD's interior is obviously 99% performance-minded, but at least it's got a little style....chrome trim on the gauges...the door panels (as POS as they are..lol)
1.) FD Interior
2.) NSX Interior
----
-----
--------
100.) Supra interior
Chrome trim can be added if there is none. Bigger gauges are easier to read when driving fast (purpose built perhaps?). Although it's not a style issue steering has tilt. Imo the exterior design and the interior matches especially for a car capable of 1000hp. Slimmer lines and smaller gauges would not match this car. Just like if plain taillights would not match, if used instead of the rounded (4 circle) taillights.
Having said that RX7 interior (racey an rounded like the exterior) and NSX interior (sharp and angled centre console) also match their exteriors perfectly.
04-07-11, 08:28 PM
#407
^^^ That's one shiny turd.
lol j/k
Okay, in THAT picture the Supra interior looks good only because of the bajillions of gauges and components that match.
I'm 5'11" 200lbs, and I feel like I'm still too small to be driving a Supra...The interior is like...over-sized..
I just don't like it...Awesome fantastic car, etc...but I just don't like the interior...and the car as a whole is really just too big for my liking, anyways..
Its like the difference between holding a dagger in 1 hand, versus a gigantic claymore with two hands.
The RX-7 is sized to where it feels like an extension of my body, I know every inch. My depth perception is spot-on, and it feels like I'm wearing a baseball glove.
For me, bigger cars like a Supra and the Corvette are just SO long, and I have a difficult time getting comfortable with the dimensions of the car while I'm driving it, you know what I'm talking about?
I'm mean...I'm not sayin', but I'm just sayin'...
lol j/k
Okay, in THAT picture the Supra interior looks good only because of the bajillions of gauges and components that match.
I'm 5'11" 200lbs, and I feel like I'm still too small to be driving a Supra...The interior is like...over-sized..
I just don't like it...Awesome fantastic car, etc...but I just don't like the interior...and the car as a whole is really just too big for my liking, anyways..
Its like the difference between holding a dagger in 1 hand, versus a gigantic claymore with two hands.
The RX-7 is sized to where it feels like an extension of my body, I know every inch. My depth perception is spot-on, and it feels like I'm wearing a baseball glove.
For me, bigger cars like a Supra and the Corvette are just SO long, and I have a difficult time getting comfortable with the dimensions of the car while I'm driving it, you know what I'm talking about?
I'm mean...I'm not sayin', but I'm just sayin'...
04-07-11, 09:09 PM
#410
Since we are talking about interior, I also think FD interior design seems very good... Yes, it might clunk and such, but design itself and how it wraps around the driver, I love. I also like the fact that center speaker pod are utilized and some aftermarket pods fits so well that Mazda engineers might of put it there on purpose.
Personally, FD designers did a fantastic job and made a car as good or better than most from this era. And affortable for those who didn't want to spend 80-90K on a car. Also, regarding what peolpe have done using FD, (20B, LS, etc) there are very few Japanese sports car that people continue to develop parts for like FDs. Again, that should be something we should be proud of owning an FD and our community.
Personally, FD designers did a fantastic job and made a car as good or better than most from this era. And affortable for those who didn't want to spend 80-90K on a car. Also, regarding what peolpe have done using FD, (20B, LS, etc) there are very few Japanese sports car that people continue to develop parts for like FDs. Again, that should be something we should be proud of owning an FD and our community.
04-07-11, 09:58 PM
#412
Although the door handles might fall off, the MAP pocket lid is always broken, and every piece of piece of plastic feels like it was made of cheaper plastic than LEGO's....
Yes, I still love my FD interior.
I don't really even want aftermarket bucket seats in mine, either. I just want some good condition suede seats....
mmmm....suuuuuede...... lol :P
04-07-11, 10:05 PM
#414
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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Personally, FD designers did a fantastic job and made a car as good or better than most from this era.
And affortable for those who didn't want to spend 80-90K on a car. Also, regarding what peolpe have done using FD, (20B, LS, etc) there are very few Japanese sports car that people continue to develop parts for like FDs. Again, that should be something we should be proud of owning an FD and our community.
04-07-11, 10:08 PM
#415
BMW's....blah....They're like a whole different class of vehicle.....performance 4-door sedan.
Booooo....hisssssss..
A little more performance...some vents in the fenders, and all of a sudden the car costs twice as much.
Everyone and their freaking dog has a BMW 3-series out here in San Diego. It's like the Honda Civic of this city.
But hey, lets not forget about your $450 annual oil changes too. FUN! -_-;;
I'll take my ~2,700lb alluminum death-trap that at least LOOKS like a sports car should.
lol
Booooo....hisssssss..
A little more performance...some vents in the fenders, and all of a sudden the car costs twice as much.
Everyone and their freaking dog has a BMW 3-series out here in San Diego. It's like the Honda Civic of this city.
But hey, lets not forget about your $450 annual oil changes too. FUN! -_-;;
I'll take my ~2,700lb alluminum death-trap that at least LOOKS like a sports car should.
lol
04-07-11, 10:10 PM
#416
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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Big, heavy sedans are common as dog poop in 2011 (and they're fine for daily drivers), but I prefer a low mass alternative for a true sports car. A car on a diet, not the Whopper with cheese
04-07-11, 10:21 PM
#419
BMW's....blah....They're like a whole different class of vehicle.....performance 4-door sedan.
Booooo....hisssssss..
A little more performance...some vents in the fenders, and all of a sudden the car costs twice as much.
Everyone and their freaking dog has a BMW 3-series out here in San Diego. It's like the Honda Civic of this city.
But hey, lets not forget about your $450 annual oil changes too. FUN! -_-;;
I'll take my ~2,700lb alluminum death-trap that at least LOOKS like a sports car should.
lol
Booooo....hisssssss..
A little more performance...some vents in the fenders, and all of a sudden the car costs twice as much.
Everyone and their freaking dog has a BMW 3-series out here in San Diego. It's like the Honda Civic of this city.
But hey, lets not forget about your $450 annual oil changes too. FUN! -_-;;
I'll take my ~2,700lb alluminum death-trap that at least LOOKS like a sports car should.
lol
Yea, I know I have one (too both situations) haha However, I thought we were talking about "if you had to give up your FD" cars that we could go out and purchase right now. Of course we'd all love to own some exotic lightweight sports cars, but for something practical that I could go buy right now, M3/M5 no doubt.
04-07-11, 10:22 PM
#420
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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I guess I assumed you already have a daily which would not replace the FD - a replacement would be of similar character, hopefully better
M3 as a daily? Absolutely.
M3 as a daily? Absolutely.
04-07-11, 10:31 PM
#421
Imo the sound of a car is also important, that's another reason why I've always liked straight 6 engines. I don't remember hearing one that I didn't like. From M3 to Supra to GTR they all sound great and super smooth. The E60 M5 is not an inline 6 but it is still in my potential future purchases list mainly because I've been in the forced induction game too long and I miss NA cars and also because that V10 sounds just awesome.
E60 M5 is one of the few cars in the world that is suitable and ready for every occasion whether it be a black tie event, a trackday, a family trip etc......
E60 M5 is one of the few cars in the world that is suitable and ready for every occasion whether it be a black tie event, a trackday, a family trip etc......
04-07-11, 10:37 PM
#422
Have you been reading what we wrote? I think we all appreciate the Supra for what it is. We just don't think its the ultimate car. I just don't think it would be a good replacement for an FD and I don't think its as good a collectable car as the FD. If for some odd reason I had to build the fastest import straight line car, I think its obvious what car we would choose, or at least what engine.
04-07-11, 10:43 PM
#423
Imo the sound of a car is also important, that's another reason why I've always liked straight 6 engines. I don't remember hearing one that I didn't like. From M3 to Supra to GTR they all sound great and super smooth. The E60 M5 is not an inline 6 but it is still in my potential future purchases list mainly because I've been in the forced induction game too long and I miss NA cars and also because that V10 sounds just awesome.
E60 M5 is one of the few cars in the world that is suitable and ready for every occasion whether it be a black tie event, a trackday, a family trip etc......
E60 M5 is one of the few cars in the world that is suitable and ready for every occasion whether it be a black tie event, a trackday, a family trip etc......
Sorry I just want to ***** M5's as much as Hammer is whoring NSX's.
Search "Meisterschaft Exhaust" they make a pretty mean sounding exhaust for the R35 as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRYYe0kLCto
04-07-11, 11:24 PM
#425
Have you been reading what we wrote? I think we all appreciate the Supra for what it is. We just don't think its the ultimate car. I just don't think it would be a good replacement for an FD and I don't think its as good a collectable car as the FD. If for some odd reason I had to build the fastest import straight line car, I think its obvious what car we would choose, or at least what engine.
You're saying you'd buy one if you wanted straight line speed but that has nothing to do with the car, it's the route most Supra owners take in the US hence the stereotype. Like I said and posted examples of it before, if you spend the money for tracking it you can make it a great car for that purpose as well. Plenty of examples, especially in Japan.