When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I think what's being manipulated here is the general publics' perception of demand and its' relation to rarity and scarcity. Yes demand is there but the average consumer does not understand scarcity vs rarity. Just because something is scarce doesn't necessarily imply that it is valuable. Likewise just because something is rare doesn't endow value.
Reminded me of this Jalopnik article from some months ago. There's something for everybody imo, even Geo Metro's.
Now if we're talking 'collectors', that's a completely different bag of enthusiast to talk about imo and aren't making decisions based off monetary value, etc. There are plenty of people out there who don't give a hoot what others think, love a particular vehicle and have tons of fun cruising around on weekends.
Porches were made to a much higher spec(s) and in general were greatly appreciated and well cared for.
The paint process alone separate these cars by miles imo but I think the average person is unfamiliar with this info and instead primarily focuses on the 'jdm underdog now handing big German machines their asses' narrative instead. And business has been great.
Replacement parts could be a restraining factor. I just repriced a list of about 65 RHD interior trim parts based on recently observed or achieved (or paid!) prices. List came out to C$8,500. Same list was $3,900 two years ago. Did not try to list LHD equivalent pricing. Hopefully the higher pricing will bring out new runs of key pieces or suitable replicas (3D printers where are you?)
There are plenty of people out there who don't give a hoot what others think, love a particular vehicle and have tons of fun cruising around on weekends.
so how to value your FD;
my dads friend bought this guy 250 GT s/n 2617GT
in 1975 for $5000. It was just some used car sitting at an Oldsmobile dealership in San Francisco.
he and his buddy bought it together, and at some point Ron bought his friend out.
I remember the car as a kid because it was under the Lionel train setup they had in the garage.
there was something unusual about this one, i don't recall what. these things were offered in LHD or RHD. this one is a street, Lusso version, so its a steel body with 3 carbs.
the competition was an aluminum body with a 6 carb engine. anyways it was unusual enough where in the late 80's he pulled it out and painted it, rebuilt the engine, and started getting invited to car shows.
(he came in 3rd at pebble beach because he had the wrong head bolts...)
he sold it around 2001, for much monies. today its worth around $8 million.
so to recap, Ron bought a weird 10 year old sports car for $5,000. fixed it up had some fun with it, and then when he was ready to sell it, it was worth a quite a bit more than $5,000.
sounds a bit like our FD's....
so i don't know what the FD is worth, but saw a 250GT SWB in traffic the other day, which makes it as common as the Rx7 around here....
First time posting in this epic novel of a thread... I agree with the idea of this post but, the big problem I see with it is Mazda's pedigree today. Ferrari today builds the "best" sports cars for an elite group of people and they were doing that 60 years ago. Mazda's flagship car today is a crossover. I see the comparison with Porsche being a little closer due to the volume of FD's being similar to the volume of air cooled 911s. Come on Mazda, where is our LFA, NSX, or GTR? We are starting to look like Mitsubishi out here.
Come on Mazda, where is our LFA, NSX, or GTR? We are starting to look like Mitsubishi out here.
I agreed with you up until this point. Those cars were not profitable whatsoever (regarding the new-gen NSX) and ultimately did not change Nissan, Acura, or Lexus place in the market. I've never understood why people think this way, but it comes up quite often so I can't ignore it; why would I (hypothetic rich person speaking, definitely not me) go spend $100k with a company who makes $30k commuter cars when I can go spend $100k with Aston Martin?
Mazda would do us a disservice by producing a car that fit in those price ranges; they'd price 99% of the people who buy their cars out of the market. And no, we'll never look like Mitsubishi out here because Mazda still makes good cars, and we don't have to rely on Nissan to supply our drivetrains. The Miata will always sell, regardless of the circumstances...and it's a great car!
$100k does not get you a great Aston Martin. GTR is a fantastic car, many a rich people own then haha.
I agree with you that it doesn't really change the brand's place in the market though. It's just advertising for the most part, which is basically what Motorsports exist for. There is some value associated with having a flag ship product, otherwise there would not be a La Ferrari, or other extremely low volume premium models. They would just make the ones that are drive profitability.
I agreed with you up until this point. Those cars were not profitable whatsoever (regarding the new-gen NSX) and ultimately did not change Nissan, Acura, or Lexus place in the market. I've never understood why people think this way, but it comes up quite often so I can't ignore it; why would I (hypothetic rich person speaking, definitely not me) go spend $100k with a company who makes $30k commuter cars when I can go spend $100k with Aston Martin?
Mazda would do us a disservice by producing a car that fit in those price ranges; they'd price 99% of the people who buy their cars out of the market. And no, we'll never look like Mitsubishi out here because Mazda still makes good cars, and we don't have to rely on Nissan to supply our drivetrains. The Miata will always sell, regardless of the circumstances...and it's a great car!
I agree that they did not drastically change the image of each of those brands, but I wouldn't say that that it did nothing either. It made a lot of people believe that the company was still committed to building a sports car. They are halo cars. Every brand has one periodically. The FD was sort of one back in its day, just like the Zupra is Toyota's today.
To me Mazda used to be the company that built the sportiest car in its class. You bought a Mazda and it was going to be fun to drive. They were the BMW of Japanese commuter cars. They are slowly killing that image and trying to chase the luxury market, they killed Mazdaspeed and now they are just making a ton of crossovers. Yes, they still have the Miata and it is a phenomenal car, but it has never been taken seriously. Mazda is turning into Mitsubishi, not because they are building junk, but because they are abandoning sports cars for vanilla crossovers.
Completely disagree on the idea that 'halo' cars don't move the needle or influence brand perception. On a long enough timeline, nothing could be further from the truth and it has been demonstrated multiple times.
When the LFA was released, they literally could not sell them. Absolutely nobody wanted it. Now they're 1mm+ all day long. The engineers were right in the long run and Lexus indisputably benefits today from the dividends of the commitment to that project.
The FD tilts in that direction but realistically Mazda has never done this. They should.
Will add that I don't think it's the only thing that matters in building a brand or a legacy. The cars made across the line have to be quality, that's a given. If that prerequisite it met, a 'Halo' car can only advance the perception of brand image.
Today, I feel comfortable saying Mitsubishi makes a trash product, generally. They are losing the long-term battle, yet people still associate the legacy of the Evolution line to the brand generally(largely allowing it to persist). That alone should convey the potential weight an initiative like 'halo' development can generate.
Hell, even today, if what I read is to be believed, Porsche doesn't actually make any money on the GT4 RS. So why make it? Because people will talk about it for decades.
Wellllll. Mazda had a halo car without actually having to build one. The RX-Vision (Illusion?) introduced the new styling regime, which unfortunately, seems to be now dated.
Meanwhile, the FD era was followed by the extremely successful Protege era, which perhaps precluded the need for a halo car, and really gave legs to Mazda brand until quite recently.
Meanwhile, the halo effect of the FD lives on, 30 years later, in the styling cues of the ND Miata, which looks like an FD pinched from both ends.
When the RX-Vision came out, Cumberford did one of his styling reviews. He mentions all sorts of styling cues, but entirely ignores the influences of the FD.
But those FD influences are all over the RX-Vision.
Mazda frequently has articles on FD in their Zoom-zoom promotional magazine, still caching in on the halo effect, but their support (at least in or area) of the current enthusiast scene, is negligible.
This is a mistake, in my opinion, because people are mad (crazy) about the FD these days.
1) The Miata (MX whatever) is Mazdas "halo" car
2) Mazdas support is quite good. FD engines are available, and you get amazing discounts if you compete in events with your Mazda (and the barrier here is really low)
Don’t get me wrong, Mazda will still hold a special place in my heart simply because they made the vehicle of my dreams when I was 15. Unfortunately we are a very tiny percentage of people out there who simply look at a vehicle as a means of transportation.
Since they are a tiny company, and now that they operate completely independent, it takes a lot of money to stay in motor sports and still produce a quality product. The funding is simply not there. As I mentioned, very few of us who actually care about what we drive and how they drive.
I saw the change coming about 12-13yrs back. When I heard all the people who actually gave a damn about motor sports were either leaving or retiring. The inevitable was going to happen and look at what we have now..
I keep everything crossed that they don’t get rid of their mx5 cup series since it’s one of the best series out there to watch and cheer for. When the entire Indy car teams and drivers are watching and cheering, you know the series is great!
Since electrification is inevitable, we will have to wait awhile before we see another halo car appear from them. I think it’ll be safe to say by 2027 or so we might have something worth while to cheer for. Be it either an electric miata or something that resembles the Vision car.
Fortunately for some of us, we were able to obtain our dream car early and will continue to drive them well into the 22nd century..
03-25-22, 09:44 AM
